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Oh Dear! Salford in bother


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#201 Amber Avenger

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:33 PM

Those in the know seem to think Salford will have new owners by the end of the week, so hopefully there is no trouble to be had.
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#202 The Parksider

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:56 PM

I've lived in Manchester for 20 years Parky so I'm well placed to comment! There is huge "latent" support for Salford in Manchester. I know tons of people who "follow" Salford to a small extent but don't go to games. They'll generally be football first and I guess spoilt by the success of the 2 footie clubs, Salford thus become sort of a moot point/bynote/curio. In 20 years of living in Manchester, however, the only Wigan fans I've ever encountered have been students or exiles (as I've already said).

As for Salford not being Manchester, the 2 towns are inextricably linked (in fact literally). Man U draw thousands of their fanbase from Salford, who by no means class themselves as "outsiders". Old Trafford is actually technically in Salford Quays. It's completely wrong to suggest that Salford RLFC don't have a big imprint in Manchester sporting culture, they do, they've just been unable to capitalise on it for whatever reason but essentially because they're dwarfed by 2 football giants.


Fair points Mr. Keen.

But if nobody wants to invest the money required for Salford to compete (and thats massive) then those fans won't come back and all that will be left is a minority of fans taking the route to Wigan watching RL on TV or whatever.....

#203 The Parksider

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:00 PM

They decided to keep Wakefield in, so I see no reason why Salford wouldn't be kept in. I suspect they wouldn't talk about buying Salford as they did with Bradford, but then I think it is right that every 'investment' and decision is looked at based on its individual circumstances.


I can't see the comparison Dave. Does SL need a strong club in a largely soccer city within shooting distances of several others??

Does SL need a strong club in a new stadium to capture the large amounts of fans and quality players in the Calder area??

If SL is planning to go to 12 plus Toulouse there'll be three clubs they won't want?

#204 The Parksider

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:02 PM

What is your position on the Oldham club then


They can do what they want with my blessing.

But they won't be a viable candidate for Superleague.

If that means Oldham have lost fans don't worry. Superleague has more than made up for that loss.

No what's your position?

#205 Chronicler of Chiswick

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:00 PM

Those in the know seem to think Salford will have new owners by the end of the week, so hopefully there is no trouble to be had.

Best thing to do is see if the players get paid tomorrow. If they do, then all's probably OK. If not, then there might be something to worry about.

#206 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

Ive lived in Salford for 57 year and Salford Quays didn't exist for the first 35 or so! Salford is on the Salford side of the Manchester Ship Canal, so technically, Manchester United is not in Salford at all, and any Salfordian worth his salt hates to be called a Mancunian! Ive never been to Salford's new stadium, even though my amateur club are only a 10 minute walk away. I stopped watching Salford about 13 years ago after being a season ticket holder, along with my wife and 3 kids since the mid 70's. I stopped going because I don't like Super League but when I look back now I was never impressed by the way the club was run. I don't mean JW, I mean the bad advisors he has always surrounded himself with. My wife worked at the club for a while, and through amateur rugby league I know many ex players so I do have some insight, and the fans never get the truth! All press releases, program notes, etc are standard "bull".

#207 Bleep1673

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

One of the reasons I stopped watching Salford, even though I used to live 5 streets away, was the lack of entertainment value.

For years management have signed journeymen Aussies, and average (or past it -Offiah/Edwards) Brits, they have a Junior programme, but can't hold on to them because of a lack of ambition, & cash to pay them, this is due to the Salary cap not enabling Chairman Wilko (Or anyone else) putting more money into the club than the Cap allows.
The fact that the team plays S41t rugby with hardly a clue what they are doing is besides the point. The fact that the perception in Salford is that they WOULD watch a succesful team was backed up, as I said earlier, by the Catalans game at the Willows last year, but they were very poor in attack, and even worse in defence, this year they have proved even worse (London Away for instance).
The Rugby League people of Salford will turn out to watch the Pinks, but not if they are going to underperform week after week.
If they ever made it to the play-offs (HA), you would expect a crowd like the Leeds cup game, because the supporters would expect a hammering, now if they performed for 5-8 years, & maybe even (God forbid) make a Final (Championship final? Northern Rail Cup anyone?), then some supporters might get their Bums off their seats at home, and travel to Barton.

Edited by Bleep1673, 24 October 2012 - 07:49 PM.

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#208 Padge

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

fans never get the truth! All press releases, program notes, etc are standard "bull".


Of course they don't, what the fekin hell do you expect, someone standing on the pitch screaming were all doomed down a microphone to the assembled masses, adverts in the press proclaiming the demise of the business. FFS I really do despair.

No business worth its salt tells its customers what is going on behind the scenes, honesty is not always the best policy, unless you want to speed up your possible demise.

"Ah Mr Wilkinson I see you want some new investors, we were interested until at that supporters meeting you let the cat out of the bag about how deep the $h!t is your standing in. Bye"

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#209 The Parksider

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:05 PM

For years management have signed journeymen Aussies, and average (or past it -Offiah/Edwards) Brits, they have a Junior programme, but can't hold on to them because of a lack of ambition, & cash to pay them, this is due to the Salary cap not enabling Chairman Wilko (Or anyone else) putting more money into the club than the Cap allows.


I thought their problem was they could not pay full cap......

#210 Padge

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:28 PM

I thought their problem was they could not pay full cap......

If they did and the chairman was allowed to spend what he wants, then it would just be the richest chairman wins, thing is Wilko doesn't want to make up the difference never mind spend over the cap.

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#211 The Parksider

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:27 AM

If they did and the chairman was allowed to spend what he wants, then it would just be the richest chairman wins, thing is Wilko doesn't want to make up the difference never mind spend over the cap.


For the life of me I don't think Mr. Wilkinson has ever been held back from spending what he wants. However he was reported as coming into the club in 1982 to steady a club "spending beyond it's means" If it ever spend up to it's "means" this last 30 years (yes 30 years of Wilko) then it wouldn't have got out of the second division.

The core support for Salford is in the attendance figures over the years. They have had a core support of a couple of thousand fans. When in the lower division or when they are playing someone with few away fans it has shown. They have recorded several "crowds" of around two thousand even in Superleague,

At those levels you don't survive SL unless your subsidised, then again you don't turn out poor teams and sell your best players if your spending full cap. The figures the fantasists don't dispute, that crowds on a couple of thousand leave you millions short of competing, to me mean Wilkinson HAS put in shedloads of money but it's not enough.

There's a difference between the typical Salford.v.London "crowd" of 2,000 and the 8,000 Wilko said he needed to break even - his Barton break even target.

Some ill mannered numpty came on here not long ago and when I passed on information given to me by a salford fan Wilkinson that could have put in £20,000,000 over the years I was greeted with the usual keyboard warrior stuff, (along the lines of "my dear sir If you don't mind me saying, I think you may be mistaken) but at an average of less that £700K a year it's in line with many sugar daddies levels of subsidy.

Whatever he has put in along with Mr. Clague it hasn't been enough and it's clear it has to be full cap or nothing, it's also painfully clear that despite the alleged latent "massive support" Salford have they ain't coming. I say alleged because in the 1980's Hunslet played Cas in the cup. Our "crowds" weren't even as good as Salford but we turned in a massive 14,000 for a cup quarter final with Castleford. One offs indicate nothing. Crusaders opened with 10,000 Paris opened with more, Barcelona got 18,000.

Wlkinson's smart enough to run Cebora, and came into the club being careful enough. "Mr. Salford" has put money in but it seems he's had enough of it all as the sums needed he's never fully funded in the first place and now's not the time to up that spending, if the Salford public aren't interested in a new ground. Yes they might be interested in a winning team but even money can't buy that now, there aren't 17 brilliant players waiting to be bought up on a £1.65M cap. The successful clubs are, and will continue to be those who can develop their own stars from the junior ranks and keep them. Salford have only a tiny junior base.

Not enough fans, not enough quality players, like HKR and Cas, and all with a possible 12 club SL looming and Toulouse coming into it makes you think Wilko knows the writing on the wall. He's high tailed it leaving two years on the licence. Wether some security company wants to put £2,000,000 a year in who knows, but rebuilding both the junior game and a fan base in a soccer city doesn't seem like something rich corporate directors would want to be charged with, even "Mr. Salford" doesn't want that anymore.

We shall see......

Edited by The Parksider, 25 October 2012 - 06:31 AM.


#212 roughyedspud

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:59 AM

They can do what they want with my blessing.

But they won't be a viable candidate for Superleague.

If that means Oldham have lost fans don't worry. Superleague has more than made up for that loss.

No what's your position?


i'll give u the position of a oldham fan....i don't want us in super league

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#213 sheddings69

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:49 AM

i'll give u the position of a oldham fan....i don't want us in super league


Me neither Spud - SL is of no consequence or interest to me at all.

As stated in earlier posts, the RFL should grow a pair, reduce SL to the 8/10 teams they really want, get rid of the shambolic debacle that is licensing, come clean and officially get rid of P&R.......then perhaps we can all move on!

Edited by sheddings69, 25 October 2012 - 07:50 AM.


#214 roughyedspud

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:27 AM

absolutely..

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#215 Dave T

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:53 AM

Me neither Spud - SL is of no consequence or interest to me at all.

As stated in earlier posts, the RFL should grow a pair, reduce SL to the 8/10 teams they really want, get rid of the shambolic debacle that is licensing, come clean and officially get rid of P&R.......then perhaps we can all move on!

As if that would happen. Nobody will just move on with Licensing.

If P&R was removed, people wouldn't move on with that either.

#216 roughyedspud

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:49 AM

thats cos RL fans are stubborn & pigheaded

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#217 sheddings69

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:01 AM

As if that would happen. Nobody will just move on with Licensing.

If P&R was removed, people wouldn't move on with that either.


So what's your solution Dave?

#218 Dave T

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:24 AM

So what's your solution Dave?

I'm not too sure mate.

I've stated on here a few times, that I am somewhere in the middle. I can see both points of view around P&R, I would actually be interested in how many clubs are supportive of the current situation. If we were in a position where there were one or two vocal clubs at the top of the championship who were the only people opposed to the current structures then that would be quite telling.

It is easy for fans to demand P&R, but then there aren't necessarily the backers there to fund this, so how does that work?

I think there are too many teams in SL. I don't think 14 has worked, back to 12 with 6 in the playoffs is the way I'd go. I'd then keep a nucleus of 12 teams (the strongest 12 in the game) and would only grow the league if there was a) significant growth of the Championships so that we had plenty of teams ready, or B) were to sensibly expand into new areas (namely France).

Whatever happens though, fans won;t just move on though, they will constantly crave what suits them and their team. That's their prerogative, but they certainly won't just accept it and move on like you suggest - they never have!

#219 The Parksider

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:34 AM

I'm not too sure mate.

It is easy for fans to demand P&R, but then there aren't necessarily the backers there to fund this, so how does that work?

I think there are too many teams in SL. I don't think 14 has worked, back to 12 with 6 in the playoffs is the way I'd go.


I don't think you could have given a surer answer.

I have suggested to many of the fans that demand P & R that their clubs don't qualify for the minimum standards and they agree.

I have noted such luminaries as Mike "Cougarmania" Smith and Andy Burnham MP support P & R without any regard to a sound financial argument if any.

I have noted several small Championship clubs say they are aiming for SL but none can put any money on the table

But if you don't want to be in Superleague and say that openly to your fans then the problem is you may end up like Batley winning something and seeing gates rise.

So bang on to the oldham lads, let Superleague do it's thing and let the rest do theirs.

I'm not saying close the door on Championship clubs, just put the entrance fee on the door then we can all live in the real world and make real progress.

#220 sheddings69

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:14 AM

The door has to be open or closed. Not, 'well it depends, it might be or it might not be'.

You only have to look at the threads on here to see that licensing is the one issue that currently divides opinion and the game.....time for the RFL to make a decision.




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