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Oh Dear! Salford in bother


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#81 keighley

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:31 PM

My previous company were having difficulty gettnig paid from a customer. He bounced several cheques, said he couldn't (wouldn't) pay. A winding up ordre produced the money in short order.


That would seem to be what is going on with Salford.

#82 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:50 PM

I see said the blind man - I don't know CH. I'm just judging him on his performance in terms of running his business. I would admire his love for Oldham RL or the hard graft put in as a 'one man band' but do I question his ability to do the job well and make a success of it? ......the results speak for themselves.

Oldham's debt prior to SL was less than £100k - no 'yo'yo ing' until it folded in 97 with debts of £1.2m. Clearly mis-management was at the heart of Oldham's demise - much as it is now!

By the way, Sheddings had working toilets and could hold well over 3 times the capacity of Whitebank in the Sheddings stand alone (which was next to the scoreboard and had a great view of the game).


it's legitimate to scrutinise the actions of anyone in public life. I'm not beatifying Hamilton, just speaking as I find.

Oldham-the original club were one of the oldest rugby clubs of any kind in the world. They'd had success, were in a large town, and had enjoyed historical success. Yet from the mid seventies to the mid nineties they struggled and their stadium was a dangerous wreck.
The current Oldham at Whitebank, I would suggest gave had no such advantages, and are pretty much at base camp.
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#83 keighley

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

So you would let these towns become RL free whilst investing in expansion areas? Rather thsn invest in areas with a proven track record of producing top players and have a latent interest in the sport. Great idea because soon there will be no heartland clubs left If we concentrate too much on expansion


No, I don't want these towns to be RL free, I support Keighley, if you didn't know. I think these feeder clubs will die of their own accord. They have precious little support already and when they are operating as SL 'A' teams with their team sheets messed around on a weekly basis to suit the SL club and with any ambitions to improve squashed as they become more and more reliant on the SL connection, I think the residue of support will evaporate and they will die. This is a bed they have made for themselves and they must lie in it. This has nothing to do with the expansion areas.

I also hope I am wrong and these feeder connections are highly successful *( for the CC club, I am sure they will suit the SL clubs as it will save them countless thousands of pounds )

As far as I know the RFL are investing precisely NOTHING in the expansion areas. They are encouraging expansion certainly but I don't think there is any cash involved except, I guess, the share of central funding that all Championship clubs receive. There is no special additional funding going to the expansion clubs to my knowledge.

Just in case you misunderstand me, I am not against any heartland club. I hope each and every RL club does well. It just seems to me that some of these expansion clubs have more to offer than some heartland CC clubs,.

#84 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

Or rather, why invest in areas that have consistently shown over many many years that pro rugby is just not viable?


that should narrow things down considerably
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#85 Rascal Bongo Stork

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:13 PM

Just saw that the Oldham-Rochdale crowd was 599. Jeez, that's depressing. Not sure what can be done about reinvigorating either club but hope something can be done. Not fully versed with what's gone on with Hornets (although I was a semi regular at Spotland in the first few years they played there) but I know that Hamilton is a deeply divisive character, he's a bit like marmite - thing is though that nobody else seems to have stood up to be counted.
Unfortunately for both grand old clubs they'll both have to spend an extra season in CC1 as the Skolars&Stags romp it ;-)

#86 JohnM

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

that should narrow things down considerably


a continuing process I am afraid.

#87 Gregory Peccary

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:11 PM

http://www.reds.co.u...ement--19102012

#88 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:06 PM

No, I don't want these towns to be RL free, I support Keighley, if you didn't know. I think these feeder clubs will die of their own accord. They have precious little support already and when they are operating as SL 'A' teams with their team sheets messed around on a weekly basis to suit the SL club and with any ambitions to improve squashed as they become more and more reliant on the SL connection, I think the residue of support will evaporate and they will die. This is a bed they have made for themselves and they must lie in it. This has nothing to do with the expansion areas.

I also hope I am wrong and these feeder connections are highly successful *( for the CC club, I am sure they will suit the SL clubs as it will save them countless thousands of pounds )

As far as I know the RFL are investing precisely NOTHING in the expansion areas. They are encouraging expansion certainly but I don't think there is any cash involved except, I guess, the share of central funding that all Championship clubs receive. There is no special additional funding going to the expansion clubs to my knowledge.

Just in case you misunderstand me, I am not against any heartland club. I hope each and every RL club does well. It just seems to me that some of these expansion clubs have more to offer than some heartland CC clubs,.

Ok sorry for the misunderstanding. I feel that under the current circumstances we should be investing in our strengths. Yes Rochadale and Oldham may never be SL but they do have a strong amateur system that should not be allowed to die. These towns may not have the top clubs but they do have an RL tradition

I agree that they should not become feeder clubs but be able to stand alone as semi- pro AND yes I think the RL could do worse than subsidise this.

#89 HappyDave

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:10 PM

http://www.reds.co.u...ement--19102012


An excellent, articulate statement. Well said that man!
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#90 keighley

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:56 PM

Ok sorry for the misunderstanding. I feel that under the current circumstances we should be investing in our strengths. Yes Rochadale and Oldham may never be SL but they do have a strong amateur system that should not be allowed to die. These towns may not have the top clubs but they do have an RL tradition

I agree that they should not become feeder clubs but be able to stand alone as semi- pro AND yes I think the RL could do worse than subsidise this.


The situation in Oldham is tragic for the game. This is a big town, a former hotbed of the game, with strong amateur clubs. If there is no great improvment on Oldham's situation, that whole area might be lost to the game. Several near misses in promotion deciders in recent years have not helped. A promotion might have stabilised the situation somewhat. I agree with you that financial help for Oldham and all areas would be good but where is that money to come from? This upcoming CC1 season promises to be very competitive and the stakes, for Oldham, are greater than for some of the other team. Promotion would be great for them but the field is crowded.

With regards to the feeder clubs, I have expressed my opinion of their loss on independence and the will of the fans to invest in such organisations. I sincerely hope I am wrong and they improve attendances and thrive. If any do I hope they can jettison the feeder arrangement if and when they feel they are strong enough and profitable enough to strike out on their own, but my gut feeling is that this will not be the case.

On a general note it seems that the clubs not involved in these feeder arrangements seem to be doing well. Sheffield, Featherstone, Halifax, Leigh, Barrow, Keighley and even Crusaders. Let us hope the feeder clubs do not dominate the the Championships and adversly affect the success of the independents.

#91 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:31 PM

The situation in Oldham is tragic for the game. This is a big town, a former hotbed of the game, with strong amateur clubs. If there is no great improvment on Oldham's situation, that whole area might be lost to the game. Several near misses in promotion deciders in recent years have not helped. A promotion might have stabilised the situation somewhat. I agree with you that financial help for Oldham and all areas would be good but where is that money to come from? This upcoming CC1 season promises to be very competitive and the stakes, for Oldham, are greater than for some of the other team. Promotion would be great for them but the field is crowded.

With regards to the feeder clubs, I have expressed my opinion of their loss on independence and the will of the fans to invest in such organisations. I sincerely hope I am wrong and they improve attendances and thrive. If any do I hope they can jettison the feeder arrangement if and when they feel they are strong enough and profitable enough to strike out on their own, but my gut feeling is that this will not be the case.

On a general note it seems that the clubs not involved in these feeder arrangements seem to be doing well. Sheffield, Featherstone, Halifax, Leigh, Barrow, Keighley and even Crusaders. Let us hope the feeder clubs do not dominate the the Championships and adversly affect the success of the independents.

what do you think brought about the situiation at Oldham?
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#92 Padge

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:08 PM

On a general note it seems that the clubs not involved in these feeder arrangements seem to be doing well. Sheffield, Featherstone, Halifax, Leigh, Barrow, Keighley and even Crusaders. Let us hope the feeder clubs do not dominate the the Championships and adversly affect the success of the independents.

You are putting cart before horse here.

The clubs that are doing well are not going for the arrangements, its not the case that the ones who have not got involved are doing well. There is a very, very big difference.

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#93 The Parksider

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:20 AM

The situation in Oldham is tragic for the game. This is a big town, a former hotbed of the game, with strong amateur clubs. If there is no great improvment on Oldham's situation, that whole area might be lost to the game.


How will the area be lost to the game if they have strong amateur teams.

West and South Leeds have strong amateur teams and arguably the pro-clubs there have sunk as low and lower than Oldham.

But they aren't lost to the game??

Nor are the fans - some still watch the CC club, some travel to watch superleague others get their fix watching amateur???

#94 keighley

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:51 AM

How will the area be lost to the game if they have strong amateur teams.

West and South Leeds have strong amateur teams and arguably the pro-clubs there have sunk as low and lower than Oldham.

But they aren't lost to the game??

Nor are the fans - some still watch the CC club, some travel to watch superleague others get their fix watching amateur???


Hopefully the amateur teams will survive but it is your point from other forums that the strength of the amateur game in an area is in direct proportion to the support and focal point provided by senior/semi pro/pro club and the best result for the amateur production from an area is to have a SL club as a focal point. That has been your gist in past threads has it not ? As to Leeds, according to you, all the amateur players from South and West Leeds and the spectators from those areas gravitate to Leeds Rhinos.

I do not agree completely with that view as there are many strong amateur areas without SL or professional clubs, including South London, but you have a point.

However, Oldham is somewhat geographically isolated on the East side on the Manchester conurbation. If Oldham Roughyeds fold, where will supporters of RL in Oldham do their spectating ? I do not think they will go to Salford or Wigan or any of the other Lancashire SL clubs. I do not think they will go over the hill to Huddersfield. They will be lost to the game. They will go to Oldham Athletic or not go at all. What will happen to all the amateur players in Oldham after they retire from playing ? They will, except for a few going into coaching, be lost to the game. Their children will therefore be lost to the game and the town of Oldham will die from a RL perspective.

Do you not think, given the history of RL in Oldham, that there is potential for a team with a minimum crowd average of 3,000 and a maximum of 5,000 plus. This, however, will require an Oldham pro/semi pro club that is strong, successful on the field and gives the RL people of Oldham a reason for pride and a reason for them to turn up and support the team. I do not see this happening with the present Oldham club despite their valiant efforts. That is my take on the situation and the reason I say the area will be lost to RL. If you feel that having some amateur teams is a decent trade off from having one of the strongest pro clubs in the history of the league as a focal point of RL in the town, then I cannot argue with you but that is not my view.

#95 LeeF

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:27 AM

An excellent, articulate statement. Well said that man!


Unusual for a disputed debt to end up with a winding up petition being presented as there may end up being an adverse costs order if the debt is proven to not exist


#96 sheddings69

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:27 PM

Hopefully the amateur teams will survive but it is your point from other forums that the strength of the amateur game in an area is in direct proportion to the support and focal point provided by senior/semi pro/pro club and the best result for the amateur production from an area is to have a SL club as a focal point. That has been your gist in past threads has it not ? As to Leeds, according to you, all the amateur players from South and West Leeds and the spectators from those areas gravitate to Leeds Rhinos.

I do not agree completely with that view as there are many strong amateur areas without SL or professional clubs, including South London, but you have a point.

However, Oldham is somewhat geographically isolated on the East side on the Manchester conurbation. If Oldham Roughyeds fold, where will supporters of RL in Oldham do their spectating ? I do not think they will go to Salford or Wigan or any of the other Lancashire SL clubs. I do not think they will go over the hill to Huddersfield. They will be lost to the game. They will go to Oldham Athletic or not go at all. What will happen to all the amateur players in Oldham after they retire from playing ? They will, except for a few going into coaching, be lost to the game. Their children will therefore be lost to the game and the town of Oldham will die from a RL perspective.

Do you not think, given the history of RL in Oldham, that there is potential for a team with a minimum crowd average of 3,000 and a maximum of 5,000 plus. This, however, will require an Oldham pro/semi pro club that is strong, successful on the field and gives the RL people of Oldham a reason for pride and a reason for them to turn up and support the team. I do not see this happening with the present Oldham club despite their valiant efforts. That is my take on the situation and the reason I say the area will be lost to RL. If you feel that having some amateur teams is a decent trade off from having one of the strongest pro clubs in the history of the league as a focal point of RL in the town, then I cannot argue with you but that is not my view.


Well said that man!

#97 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:42 PM

Well said that man!


what do you think brought about the situation at Oldham leading up to the mid 90s? All that history, middle of the 'heartlands', and so on, yet frequent finacialtroubles and a stadium that was a heritage centre for the corrugated iron industry, much of which was off limites becaue it was dangerous that was falling down around people.

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 20 October 2012 - 12:43 PM.

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#98 Johnoco

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:51 PM

what do you think brought about the situation at Oldham leading up to the mid 90s? All that history, middle of the 'heartlands', and so on, yet frequent finacialtroubles and a stadium that was a heritage centre for the corrugated iron industry, much of which was off limites becaue it was dangerous that was falling down around people.

To be fair though, having decent stadia/facilities is largely a post Bradford/Hillsborough thing. Before then almost every sports stadium in the country was a dump. I can remember thinking Valley Parade was a dodgy gaff in the 70's.

#99 41hound

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:54 PM

Well can't comment on the standard but let's take Leeds where I know a bit.

We have a club, Hunslet that have no assets, few fans and spend all they can to just get a team on the pitch.

We also have a club Hunslet Warriors who are amateur, have teams at all levels, and always put on a great show for the fans.

I know which of the two are more fun and better for Rugby League if one had to choose.........


I go to watch my local amateur side. A mate plays for them which makes it more fun! There is a lot to be said for a Saturday afternoon kick off with the game 10 mins away. They play decent rugby with good effort - for some strange reason the result seems of less significance than when watching my pro team, I just enjoy being at the game and having a laugh. I might be the water carrier next year!

#100 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:54 PM

To be fair though, having decent stadia/facilities is largely a post Bradford/Hillsborough thing. Before then almost every sports stadium in the country was a dump. I can remember thinking Valley Parade was a dodgy gaff in the 70's.


agreed

but the sheddings was particularly bad.
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