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Oh Dear! Salford in bother


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#141 Les Tonks Sidestep

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

The Revenue now (alledgedly) after owed tax of £150k. Clearly nothing to see here....

#142 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:49 PM

The Revenue now (alledgedly) after owed tax of £150k. Clearly nothing to see here....


let's play top trumps

sorry for it being from wikipedia

After finishing 5th again, in November 2002, Featherstone went into administration, owing the Inland Revenue £97,000 and with total debts of £403,000
WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#143 The Parksider

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:50 PM

The Revenue now (alledgedly) after owed tax of £150k. Clearly nothing to see here....


Not sure about allegedly Mr. Sidestep. £150K in PAYE, and the club are "unable to fend HMRC off".

They paid Greggson's £15K, these are the consultants who were "engaged to try to find potential new owners".

Not sure Greggson managed it apparently, anyway the local Mayor reckons he may have a buyer, but administration looms Friday. Just before Friday there's the salaries to pay and "the club lacks the funds to make the payments on the due dates"

Peel Holdings don't want to know and the whole board of Salford are happy to sell their shares at a "nominal sum".

#144 keighley

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:52 PM

Not sure about allegedly Mr. Sidestep. £150K in PAYE, and the club are "unable to fend HMRC off".

They paid Greggson's £15K, these are the consultants who were "engaged to try to find potential new owners".

Not sure Greggson managed it apparently, anyway the local Mayor reckons he may have a buyer, but administration looms Friday. Just before Friday there's the salaries to pay and "the club lacks the funds to make the payments on the due dates"

Peel Holdings don't want to know and the whole board of Salford are happy to sell their shares at a "nominal sum".


Sounds like, after all your bluster, hero worship of Sl, rejection of any non Salford RL club in Manchester and trumpeting the unparalled success and profitabilty of SL, that Oldham might inherit the earth there as the only club left standing. Maybe they can play the occasional road game in Salford to remind them what they lost.

I told you SL was in danger of several clubs getting into trouble if economies were not made. Maybe 200 fans will now make the trip in the opposite direction to supportManchestr s team.

#145 keighley

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:06 PM

People can do what they want. It's much better for the game that Salford market to Oldham and all of the two city's and satellites. If they can't get better than 6,000 how are oldham supposed to do it?

Let the past go it's the past.


It looks like they might have to see what they can do if we are to preserve senior RL in Manchester.

Salford might wish they were still in the past with David Watkins and co pulling huge crowds to the Willows and being a top team.

I apologise for gloating. I hope Salford survive this,the game can t afford to lose Salford, especially now they have the stadium. On the other hand Oldham also have a right to exist and thrive, especially in their own area. I wish only good things for both teams.

#146 keighley

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:20 PM

1. RL has declined heavily in Manchester and it's surrounds, only Superleague retains an attraction that can turn this round.

The one SL club struggles yet you say two successful clubs are possible. Your dreaming.

2. SKY never had an appetite for CC rugby your dreaming.

3.there are very few Sugar daddies happily prepared to pump in millions year on year in fact there's only really one who shows no sign of stopping. Your dreaming.

4. Thanks for admitting your dreaming.


1.And you would revive the game in Manchester by killing off a club in a completely different part of the megopolis, hoping and dare I say DREAMING that substantial portions of the population would flock to watch Salford.And you say I m dreaming.

2.I guess I must have been dreaming when Sky televised a whole couple of seasons of CC rugby in recent years, including the CC grand finals. Maybe they will revisit that policy. You never know.

3. Thanks for cutting the rest of my point and concentrating on the very last suggestion I posted re CC financing. Oldham did have a sponsor but he left after a dispute. This is a CC1 team. They do not need multi millions. They are not paying unsustainable SL wages.

#147 JohnM

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:17 PM

I On the other hand Oldham also have a right to exist and thrive, especially in their own area.

I
Sure they have. Pity they have not exercised that right.

#148 JohnM

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:22 PM

1.And you would revive the game in Manchester by killing off a club in a completely different part of the megopolis,


They have killed themselves off. They have wasted their heritage until there is no way back. Whilst it was doing that, the world turned. Living patterns changed, working patterns changed, transport patterns changed, sporting and recreation patterns changed, people grew old and changed. this is 2012 not 1952.

#149 keighley

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:05 AM

They have killed themselves off. They have wasted their heritage until there is no way back. Whilst it was doing that, the world turned. Living patterns changed, working patterns changed, transport patterns changed, sporting and recreation patterns changed, people grew old and changed. this is 2012 not 1952.


I agree that they have failed spectacularly. They are a seriously critical case but Huddersfield, Bradford Northern and Hull KR have managed redemption from some pretty serious predicaments.

They may well expire completely but I do not think that this will transalate into huge support for Salford from the Oldham area, transport systems or not. Given that Oldham s average crowd is around 600, if the whole six hundred moved to support Salford, which i don t think they would, it would still not help Salford too much and the whole town of Oldham would be lost to RL. Far better , in my opinion, if Oldham could rise from the ashes and tap, once again, into the latent reservoir of spectators on the area.

I am not advocating SL for Oldham,just a sucessful team at CC level and promotion from CC1. If that is achieved and some sort of improvement of the ground is made, then further plans can be formjulated. After all, it is no so long ago that they were not even based in Oldham,so they are not at complete rock bottom.

#150 The Parksider

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:17 AM

1.And you would revive the game in Manchester by killing off a club in a completely different part of the megopolis, hoping and dare I say DREAMING that substantial portions of the population would flock to watch Salford.And you say I'm dreaming.


I never EVER suggested killing Oldham off. How can we have a debate when you make "killer" points like this??

You say "substantial parts of the Oldham population" won't go to Salford. I never EVER said they would I suggested if you could get a couple of hundred in time, and a couple of hundred from all the areas there'd be a tremendous crowd in Barton.

Salford don't attract enough fans, RL needs to try to capture the Manchester market as well as Salford for a succesful SL team

Championship rugby doesn't attract many fans so Oldham can't do it, even if they won the CC grand final, and aren't doing it big style.

Superleague is the attraction nowadays something you have to grasp as it's not 1952.

The vehicle for getting fans in that massive area and onto seats has to be Superleague.

If nobody wants to try to do that at Salford they'll sink into the Championship and probably morph into another Swinton Oldham or Rochdale.

You also conveniently ignore the fact that Oldham people don't all sit at home waiting for the day Athletic or Rughyeds one day rise again, which is your constant "re-incarnation" theme.

Oldham people who want to go watch a top Rugby match go watch Wigan or Sale and doubtless many watch United or City.

It's NOT 1952 and people do travel outside their back yard.

Where do you think Rhinos fans come from

Where do you think Bulls fans come from

Where do you think Cas fans come from.

Many travel further than the distance between Oldham and Barton on less direct roads.

Why Salford? because if you haven't noticed they have an excellent stadium just by the M60 - miss that did you?

As for your Oldham dreams, they don't have a decent stadium,

You have to look at the game today, who comes from where and how to support teams. Never again will 5000 fans walk out of their terraced home in Oldham down to the local club. It's not like that anymore, as John M says.

Not even at Hunslet, they travel from miles to come and watch. I'm at the "other side of the city" I have friends in Wakefield and Halifax who come and watch Hunslet. I'll make you a longer liist, not one of them will be from Hunslet.

How will Sale get thousands into Barton? Run 100 coaches up from Sale? No they'll come from all over.....

So no apologies for cutting your posts, you need to concentrate on the important debates, and like it or not the reality today is Rugby League needs to get a profitable market out of the Salford/Manchester area and to do that it needs to provide an attractive product in a comfortable stadium.

Doesn't it??

Discuss.

#151 sheddings69

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:32 AM

Where I live in Oldham is exactly half way between Huddersfield and Barton - which is the same distance from Wigan (another 'manchester' team) to Barton.

In fact, its only a couple more miles to travel to Wigan from Oldham, so why on earth would RL followers in Oldham choos Salford? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Salford will simply not attract fans from any other 'manchester' clubs Parky.

Edited by sheddings69, 23 October 2012 - 06:38 AM.


#152 The Parksider

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:58 AM

Where I live in Oldham is exactly half way between Huddersfield and Barton - which is the same distance from Wigan (another 'manchester' team) to Barton.

In fact, its only a couple more miles to travel to Wigan from Oldham, so why on earth would RL followers in Oldham choos Salford? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Salford will simply not attract fans from any other 'manchester' clubs Parky.


I didn't suggest all Oldham fans would flock to Salford. Most of them are probably long gone from the game anyway - it's more about the new fans of the game. What I did suggest is that Salford as the SL incumbent for the area should TRY to get fans from Oldham Rochdale Bury, Sale etc etc etc.

Leeds attract fans from Hunslet, Hunslet attracts fans from Wakefield, Bradford attracts fans from Leeds, Wigan attract fans from all over.

With respect people can't put RL fans in boxes, and new fans will go where they want because they can, and they do.

Anecdotal evidence is that some Oldham based people like to go to watch Wigan nowadays.

It may well be the case, and (as you suggest Wigan is just as far as Salford), that Oldham people who fancy an SL game already go to Wigan. Padge says the trains from Manchester Picadilly on Wigan match days have RL fans heading out that way.

If that is the case - and I concede it may be then Salford's dismal efforts over many years have failed and "Lancashire" can only support four Superleague clubs - and even that is debatable. The empty new stadium probably confirms this, the mass withdrawal of Wilkinson and his board maybe also confirms this.

BUT If Salford fight on in SL then they have to look to get fans from all around the M60, whether they would get them with a new board running the club I don't know and I bow to your opinion they probably would not.

#153 sheddings69

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:12 AM

I didn't suggest all Oldham fans would flock to Salford. Most of them are probably long gone from the game anyway - it's more about the new fans of the game. What I did suggest is that Salford as the SL incumbent for the area should TRY to get fans from Oldham Rochdale Bury, Sale etc etc etc.

Leeds attract fans from Hunslet, Hunslet attracts fans from Wakefield, Bradford attracts fans from Leeds, Wigan attract fans from all over.

With respect people can't put RL fans in boxes, and new fans will go where they want because they can, and they do.

Anecdotal evidence is that some Oldham based people like to go to watch Wigan nowadays.

It may well be the case, and (as you suggest Wigan is just as far as Salford), that Oldham people who fancy an SL game already go to Wigan. Padge says the trains from Manchester Picadilly on Wigan match days have RL fans heading out that way.

If that is the case - and I concede it may be then Salford's dismal efforts over many years have failed and "Lancashire" can only support four Superleague clubs - and even that is debatable. The empty new stadium probably confirms this, the mass withdrawal of Wilkinson and his board maybe also confirms this.

BUT If Salford fight on in SL then they have to look to get fans from all around the M60, whether they would get them with a new board running the club I don't know and I bow to your opinion they probably would not.


1. We agree on something - many RL fans are 'long gone from the game' anyway - but will 'new fans' in the area choose Salford? Given a choice of course not.

2. Manchester already has its SL club that it can sustain - Wigan.

Edited by sheddings69, 23 October 2012 - 07:13 AM.


#154 The Parksider

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:25 AM

1. We agree on something - many RL fans are 'long gone from the game' anyway - but will 'new fans' in the area choose Salford? Given a choice of course not.

2. Manchester already has its SL club that it can sustain - Wigan.


We may well agree on most things. It's just not as easy to clearly discuss issues via typed messages.

Taking your point on......

For me the Liverpool/merseyside area already has the SL club it can sustain - Saints.

And the Cheshire area maybe already has the SL club it can sustain - Warrington.

Sit back with a map of the old Lancashire areas draw three big circles around the three clubs until they overlap and that's maybe something like what Mo Lyndsay was trying to draw in 1995.

Edited by The Parksider, 23 October 2012 - 07:31 AM.


#155 sheddings69

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:33 AM

We may well agree on most things. It's just not as easy to clearly to discuss issues via typed messages.

Taking your point on......

For me the Liverpool/merseyside area already has the SL club it can sustain - Saints.

And the Cheshire area maybe already has the SL club it can sustain - Warrington.

Sit back with a map of the old Lancashire areas draw three big circles around the three clubs and that's maybe something like what Mo Lyndsay was trying to draw in 1995.


Perhaps a 'regional' Super League of 8 or 10 teams is the way to go for them, with a completely separate Championship containing the rest - similar to country clubs in Aus.

There would then be no point to the licensing nonsense and chamionship clubs could simply concentrate reaching the pinnacle - as Sheffield have done. Problems solved!

#156 Chronicler of Chiswick

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:19 AM

On a technical note, if Salford do go into administration, what happens with them for next season? I'd quite like a sensible answer, but looking at the way this thread's been veering I suspect I'm whistling in the wind here.

#157 Dave T

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:25 AM

I am not advocating SL for Oldham,just a sucessful team at CC level and promotion from CC1. If that is achieved and some sort of improvement of the ground is made, then further plans can be formjulated. After all, it is no so long ago that they were not even based in Oldham,so they are not at complete rock bottom.

What exactly are you asking for here, Oldham control their own destiny don't they? It is their fault they aren't at the top of the SL, Championship or wherever.

#158 The Parksider

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:31 AM

Perhaps a 'regional' Super League of 8 or 10 teams is the way to go for them, with a completely separate Championship containing the rest - similar to country clubs in Aus.There would then be no point to the licensing nonsense and chamionship clubs could simply concentrate reaching the pinnacle - as Sheffield have done. Problems solved!


Firstly I agree the problem is that you have small clubs who cannot hope to compete with Leeds, Wire, Saints, Wigan, Hull, Catalans going on and on about Superleague all the time but never putting the two million pounds a year on the table to show they are serious and can do it. That only gets the fans going on and on, and it all becomes negative and everyone gets all unhappy!

It was a marvellous moment when Sheffield came back from the dead several years ago to lift the grand final trophy this season, and within days it was all forgotten as everyone started to go on and on about how the eagles should be in Superleague.

No disrespect to any club or any RL person at all but haven't Wakefield, Salford, Bradford, Castleford and HKR shown how darn difficult it is to compete in Superleague? Or have these clubs simply been "badly managed" which is always what's chucked at them.

Lyndsay wanted clubs to be bigger sitting on bigger areas and that was all poo pooed. Merging on the ridiculous eh? Well for me - and again NO DISRESPECT going round dreaming how clubs with no money, few fans and no pro player development systems can just go into SL and compete - now that IS "ridiculous".

The collapse of the rump end of superleague is often treated (with "ridiculous" glee) as proof Lyndsay and his selfish super dooper league would one day get their commupance. Now it's all unravelling we are told it's time to lower the cap right down, return to P & R, and get the family of RL back together. Shake hands and forget trying to compete with RU & Soccer. We'll be fine.

Will we really??? Was it really all fine in 1995?? Were the changes made just a "ridiculous" idea???

If Salford go and O'Connor also doesn't get his 8,000 it just may leave Lancashire where Lyndsay probably wanted it to go. Three big clubs with all the players and fans. So the collapse of the rump of Superleague may actually be it's saviour.

Now all RL fans in the north west can go to St.Helens, Wigan and Warrington and all the best kids can aspire one day to play for these giants of the game, who can now pinch more fans from trad club areas.

Mr. Lyndsay probably has a wry smile on his face.

As for the 8-10 teams you suggest, the courting of Touluse is clearly to add another region as obviously there is a shortage of clubs who could be viable in SL. A ten club league picks itself - three Lancs, three Yorkshire, One Hull, One London and two France.

But I suspect 12 clubs with Millionaires still being allowed to prop the other two up, whilst "something turns up".....

#159 a.n Other

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:32 AM

On a technical note, if Salford do go into administration, what happens with them for next season? I'd quite like a sensible answer, but looking at the way this thread's been veering I suspect I'm whistling in the wind here.

I would assume it would be much like Bradford earlier in the year, with regards to their licence. Any points deduction will be from the 2013 league table. If they go into liquidation, then the RFL will have to agree to accept their memebership back of the new owners (if there are any) and then decide which league they will play in (which i would assume again would be SL)

#160 Ackroman

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:36 AM

What are you suggesting?

That you interpret this as Salford going into administration?


Yes. Any shock in that after 8 pages?

Edited by Ackroman, 23 October 2012 - 09:36 AM.





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