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#1 John Drake

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:21 PM

Clear as mud.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-20001111

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#2 Griff9of13

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:17 PM

Another day, another shambles from this wonderful government. Talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. The way they are going they should be running the RFL. :rolleyes:
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#3 Leeds Wire

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:27 PM

Ever so slightly off topic, but isn't it an amazing coincidence that British Gas put up their prices by 10% just at the time most people are thinking about putting their heating timer back on?

#4 JohnM

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:43 PM

The BBC are really enjoying themselves over this, too. I suppose its the result of years of tinkering with education that has produced the current rash of BBC "reporters"

Anyway, here's an unpalatable truth. You are going to pay more..and more..and more for your energy.

If we are to avoid cooking the planet, then we have to reduce our energy consumption. As we look longer and harder for the replacements for our depleting fossil fuels, the cost of production, transmission and distribution will continue to rise, and so will prices. Get used to it.

However, there is one simple measure that will bring some justice some equity and some fairness to the current system and help alleviate fuel poverty.

This how it works. you pay progressively more, the more you use.

Band one: the lowest price band from zero usage up to say the average usage for a couple living in a 2 bed well insulated property say 20,000 KWh per annum total gas + elec

Band two; say from 20,001 KWh per annum to 40,000 KWh per annum, pay 30% more per unit

Band three: say from 40,001 KWh per annum tp 60,000 KWh pay 60% more per unit.

#5 JohnM

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:47 PM

Ever so slightly off topic, but isn't it an amazing coincidence that British Gas put up their prices by 10% just at the time most people are thinking about putting their heating timer back on?


yes, it is a coincidence

The price for gas paid by power generators has increased by 90 per cent in real terms since the year 2000.

see Friends of the Earth report

#6 MikeW

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:59 PM

The BBC are really enjoying themselves over this, too. I suppose its the result of years of tinkering with education that has produced the current rash of BBC "reporters"

Anyway, here's an unpalatable truth. You are going to pay more..and more..and more for your energy.

If we are to avoid cooking the planet, then we have to reduce our energy consumption. As we look longer and harder for the replacements for our depleting fossil fuels, the cost of production, transmission and distribution will continue to rise, and so will prices. Get used to it.

However, there is one simple measure that will bring some justice some equity and some fairness to the current system and help alleviate fuel poverty.

This how it works. you pay progressively more, the more you use.

Band one: the lowest price band from zero usage up to say the average usage for a couple living in a 2 bed well insulated property say 20,000 KWh per annum total gas + elec

Band two; say from 20,001 KWh per annum to 40,000 KWh per annum, pay 30% more per unit

Band three: say from 40,001 KWh per annum tp 60,000 KWh pay 60% more per unit.


I take it that's per person?

Also the people that will hit are the ones who are at home all day, like the elderly

Edited by MikeW, 19 October 2012 - 02:01 PM.


#7 JohnM

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:04 PM

Actually, no, it would be per meter and the trick would be to get the banding right and the % right ( i'm just guessing at the KWh figures to illustrate the point so that the average household hovers around the 2nd band so can reasonably reduce consumption to get completely into the first band.

#8 RidingPie

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:07 PM

whilst not a bad idea I think you'd have to include a discount system for having kids, particularly when people have children in their first year.

#9 gazza77

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:17 PM

How about an even simpler system, each company charges a single price for each utility. You choose the cheapest company. Simples. :D

I agree with an earlier poster however, prices are likely to go up and up. Having renovated our house over the last few years, it's opened my eyes as to the difference in temperature indoors during winter when the house has a reasonable level of insulation. Two years ago, at this time of year, we had no loft insulation whatsoever. The temp inside the loft was generally pretty much the same as outside, unless the tiles had seen a lot of sun. Now, without heating, the temp has been a fairly steady 17c or so for days. Perhaps the focus needs to move on how to enable people to stay warm without needing the heating on so much. B)

Edited by gazza77, 19 October 2012 - 02:17 PM.

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#10 MikeW

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:20 PM

whilst not a bad idea I think you'd have to include a discount system for having kids, particularly when people have children in their first year.


Bingo. Likewise if you take in an elderly relative as a carer

#11 JohnM

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:20 PM

sure. the idea is to discourage consumption, motivate people towards energy efficiency, protect those less able to pay and keep MY bills down. Maybe not a discount system as such, though. A simple tariff pitched at the right level and maybe a transition period. Child benefit should cover keeping the young sprogs warm, maybe? Winter fuel allowance for me?

Is just the current two tier system means low users are subsidising high users and that is in my view the wrong way round

Edited by JohnM, 19 October 2012 - 02:21 PM.


#12 John Drake

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:20 PM

Anyway, here's an unpalatable truth. You are going to pay more..and more..and more for your energy.


If only politicians wouldn't go on pretending otherwise for the sake of a quick headline they could save themselves an awful lot of embarrassment.

What is crooked about the whole pretence of competition in the energy market is the way in which consumer prices are presented to make it almost impossible for the average punter to work out which is the most cost-effective tariff to choose. Referring to any of them as the 'cheapest' is a misnomer.

Ofgem claims it is aiming for greater transparency in this area. It won't happen, because if it does, the myth of energy price competition will be exposed for the massive deception it has always been.

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#13 gazza77

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:30 PM

As with expectations about an acceptable standard of living having changed over the years, I wonder how much the expectation of an acceptable indoors temperature has moved. How many posters on here could sit at home this evening and be comfortable in shirt sleeves for example, because the heating is on, yet if they stuck a jumper on, they'd be just as warm without the heating. As with many things, attitudes change over time, and whilst this obviously isn't the solution to the whole energy prices issue, I suspect for many people, it would enable them to reduce their costs.

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#14 RidingPie

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:41 PM

As with expectations about an acceptable standard of living having changed over the years, I wonder how much the expectation of an acceptable indoors temperature has moved. How many posters on here could sit at home this evening and be comfortable in shirt sleeves for example, because the heating is on, yet if they stuck a jumper on, they'd be just as warm without the heating. As with many things, attitudes change over time, and whilst this obviously isn't the solution to the whole energy prices issue, I suspect for many people, it would enable them to reduce their costs.


I couldn't, we're off to our static caravan tonight in Filey and its going to be cold enough to freeze the inscription off a brass monkey. I'll be wearing a coat watching listening to the radio never mind just wearing a jumper.

#15 Griff9of13

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:47 PM

Spot on John. The myth of competition is protected by the labyrinth like complexity of the energy companies multiple tariffs Like Gazza77 states in his post why not have a single price per provider so that we can make a proper comparison of one company against another? Because that would expose the fact that all the providers are in collusion and fix their prices to be pretty much the same.

I switched (again) a couple of weeks ago. When my current provider (First Utility) found out I was leaving them they miraculously found a better tariff to offer me. I compared this with the one I was moving to, a task that took me about half an hour in Excel to do. I reckon that I'm reasonably savvy with numbers and this type of analysis, but it still took me half an hour because it is so difficult to compare like for like.

I am also suspicious that if Cameron is true to his word and the companies are forced to offer the lowest tariff the choice will be reduced and those people like myself who regularly shop around and switch will actually end up paying more.
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#16 JohnM

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:55 PM

.... why not have a single price per provider so that we can make a proper comparison of one company against another?

..... the choice will be reduced and those people like myself who regularly shop around and switch will actually end up paying more.


isn't there a bit of a contradiction there. no matter. This form of pricing, same with mobile phones, is called confusion pricing for obvious reasons. in addition, it allows people like you to take advantage of us older fold who can't work it all out, :rolleyes:

#17 Griff9of13

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

isn't there a bit of a contradiction there. no matter. This form of pricing, same with mobile phones, is called confusion pricing for obvious reasons. in addition, it allows people like you to take advantage of us older fold who can't work it all out, :rolleyes:


Yes there is a contradiction. But only because I believe we will never see PROPER competition between energy suppliers.

Maybe another problem with the current situation is that hardly anyone shops around - I'm sure i heard yesterday that only 10% of customers ever switch suppliers. If more people did shop around maybe free-market economics would really start to kick in and proper competition on price would emerge?
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#18 Griff9of13

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 04:57 PM

Yes there is a contradiction. But only because I believe we will never see PROPER competition between energy suppliers.

Maybe another problem with the current situation is that hardly anyone shops around - I'm sure i heard yesterday that only 10% of customers ever switch suppliers. If more people did shop around maybe free-market economics would really start to kick in and proper competition on price would emerge?


Some facts about switching
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#19 shrek

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:10 PM

Ever so slightly off topic, but isn't it an amazing coincidence that British Gas put up their prices by 10% just at the time most people are thinking about putting their heating timer back on?

The other "coincidence" was the energy companies were holding off on the increases so they'd be excluded from the Consumer Prices Indexes and keep the % rise down for next years benefits and pension rises, apparently last Winters hikes were before so got wrapped up in it, unless some random mush on the radio was fishing for news!

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#20 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:00 PM

As with expectations about an acceptable standard of living having changed over the years, I wonder how much the expectation of an acceptable indoors temperature has moved. How many posters on here could sit at home this evening and be comfortable in shirt sleeves for example, because the heating is on, yet if they stuck a jumper on, they'd be just as warm without the heating. As with many things, attitudes change over time, and whilst this obviously isn't the solution to the whole energy prices issue, I suspect for many people, it would enable them to reduce their costs.

That is a very good point. In the days before central heating when the only heating was a fire you would generally wear jumpers and slippers round the house and take then off in front o'fire. Nowadays we expect 25C all the time.




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