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#21 Dave T

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:15 PM

Any evidence that giving away tickets reduces revenue or that staging games involves paying people such as STewards and players?

No none at all

But you also have no idea whether the RLEF or RFL were paying for the staging of the game, allowing the FFR to take this game to Lens pretty much risk-free.

You also have no idea whether a sponsor or investor paid for this to be held there.

You have absolutely no evidence that the FFR made a loss on this game.

#22 Dave T

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:17 PM

The same reason rugby clubs lose money. Games are expensive to hold.

They don't have to be. Depends on all sorts of things.

#23 Just Browny

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:26 PM

But you also have no idea whether the RLEF or RFL were paying for the staging of the game, allowing the FFR to take this game to Lens pretty much risk-free.

You also have no idea whether a sponsor or investor paid for this to be held there.

You have absolutely no evidence that the FFR made a loss on this game.


Yep. Still, you can't stop an RL fan moaning about something from their armchairs can you.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#24 Northern Sol

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:49 PM

But you also have no idea whether the RLEF or RFL were paying for the staging of the game, allowing the FFR to take this game to Lens pretty much risk-free.

You also have no idea whether a sponsor or investor paid for this to be held there.

You have absolutely no evidence that the FFR made a loss on this game.


No just the RFL or RLEF but that's okay apparently.

But this was, of course, covered by an unnamed sponsor. Sponsors usually like anomity.

#25 Northern Sol

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:50 PM

Yep. Still, you can't stop an RL fan moaning about something from their armchairs can you.


And you can't stop the defenders of the ridiculous from defending the ridiculous. If they played the game at the North Pole, you'd still consider it a good decision.

Still your defences of the RFL regarding the Crusaders were all spot on, weren't they?

Edited by Northern Sol, 22 October 2012 - 09:51 PM.


#26 Northern Sol

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

They don't have to be. Depends on all sorts of things.


Profit = Revenue -Cost

That doesn't depend on anything.

#27 Dave T

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:16 AM

No just the RFL or RLEF but that's okay apparently.

But this was, of course, covered by an unnamed sponsor. Sponsors usually like anomity.

You have absolutely no idea whether they made a loss. None whatsoever.

There were TV deals - how much were these worth and how much did the RFL and RLEF lose?

#28 Dave T

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:18 AM

Profit = Revenue -Cost

That doesn't depend on anything.

You said 'Rugby clubs lose money because games are expensive to host'.

A one off international game is completely different. It is feasible that the FFR had very few costs associated with staging this game.

#29 gingerjon

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:48 AM

Profit = Revenue -Cost

That doesn't depend on anything.


So what was the income and expenditure on this match?
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#30 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:17 PM

So what was the income and expenditure on this match?


You tell me, surely the FFR13 are proud of their efforts and have released the figure to the public.

#31 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:18 PM

You said 'Rugby clubs lose money because games are expensive to host'.

A one off international game is completely different. It is feasible that the FFR had very few costs associated with staging this game.


A one-off game needs just as many stewards, players, security etc....

#32 Dave T

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

A one-off game needs just as many stewards, players, security etc....

you're not really making much of a point. Clubs dont lose money because they have to pay stewards.
So could the tv money not cover the costs?
The only person who seems certain of anything in this thread is you, im surprised you seem to know that income was low and costs high for the game.

#33 Dave T

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:42 PM

You tell me, surely the FFR13 are proud of their efforts and have released the figure to the public.

seriously? Jeez...

#34 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:54 PM

you're not really making much of a point. Clubs dont lose money because they have to pay stewards.
So could the tv money not cover the costs?
The only person who seems certain of anything in this thread is you, im surprised you seem to know that income was low and costs high for the game.


I think if you give away thousands of tickets then it speaks volumes about how well ticket sales have gone. And do we know that there is any TV money? JUst because a game is on telly doesn't mean that this involved a fee.

#35 Dave T

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:19 PM

I think if you give away thousands of tickets then it speaks volumes about how well ticket sales have gone. And do we know that there is any TV money? JUst because a game is on telly doesn't mean that this involved a fee.

This is the point, we don't know the details, yet you are stating that they will have made a loss. First you said the FFR, then maybe the RFL or RLEF.

Wasn't the intention always to give tickets away to attract a crowd for this event as it is in a non-RL area? That was my understanding. Most people have been positive about this crowd, and indeed the even bigger one last year which was on the back of free tickets, generally apart from you, who seem to know that they have lost money on this event.

#36 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:30 PM

This is the point, we don't know the details, yet you are stating that they will have made a loss. First you said the FFR, then maybe the RFL or RLEF.


I did not mention the RFL or RLEF except in reply to someone who brought them up (edit and that was you in fact). I think it highly unlikely that they were involved.

I objected to the idea that giving away tickets for free doesn't matter.

Wasn't the intention always to give tickets away to attract a crowd for this event as it is in a non-RL area? That was my understanding. Most people have been positive about this crowd, and indeed the even bigger one last year which was on the back of free tickets, generally apart from you, who seem to know that they have lost money on this event.


If they must give away tickets then perhaps they could do so in a place where there might be some benefit i.e. somewhere that has a struggling RL side that could do with a boost.

I don't think "they were always going to give away freebies" is much of a defence against "they should not give away freebies".

Edited by Northern Sol, 23 October 2012 - 05:31 PM.


#37 Dave T

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:42 PM

I did not mention the RFL or RLEF except in reply to someone who brought them up (edit and that was you in fact). I think it highly unlikely that they were involved.

I objected to the idea that giving away tickets for free doesn't matter.



If they must give away tickets then perhaps they could do so in a place where there might be some benefit i.e. somewhere that has a struggling RL side that could do with a boost.

I don't think "they were always going to give away freebies" is much of a defence against "they should not give away freebies".

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points. You said they will have made a big loss - that was the issue.

The question about whether they should have taken it to Lens, whether the decision of utilising free tickets for these events rather than getting 5-6k in a traditional area paying 10-20euros each is a good one, is a separate discussion, and one that has in fact been done.

#38 sgorpioncaerdyddrob

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 11:13 PM

I believe it was said somewhere that the owner of the Racing Lens FC is a friend of the French XIII President Larrat? So im guessing he was paying for the privelidge?
To be fair from what I heard we took a good few over for the game, rather than just North Wales ' Ginger Mike and chums who always seems to get his mug on TV!

It would have been more if some of us could have afforded it and if it was played in the south and easier to get to cost wise, can just about afford Wrexham .Just a shame we couldn't really find the way through we were looking for after our Dai got the first score 2 mins in. It was a really physical game and thought the Dragons withstood the defensive pressure well. The Welsh production line keeps on rolling,so we'll see what else we can develop in time for next year.
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#39 Jim from Oz

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:55 AM

Have the ratings come out for this match yet? Did it rate well in England and Wales?

#40 Jim from Oz

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:06 AM

Only shows one French try, though. The whole game is on iplayer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...France_v_Wales/


I can't watch this in Australia! Only can be watched in the Uk. Bummer !





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