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French Super XIII

- aday nearer?

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#1 audois

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 11:51 AM

After the success of the Dayan-Larrat project to Lens Saturday has this made the Super XIII project more likely? For many over here this partnership has won some credibility which may open the doors for this projected new elite competition kicking off in the summer of 2014. This new franchise based set up intends to bring together thirteen clubs including 4/5 operating out of major soccer clubs outside the traditional heartlands of the south.

In yesterdays national sports daily 'L'Equipe' an article quotes a salary cap of £900,000 for the participating clubs. Today probably only Pia, Carcassonne & Toulouse could get anywhere meet this figure under present arrangements. The key I'd have though must be more the link Dayan-Bietry. The latter a head honcho at Bein Sport Television who have just launched this year three specialised sports channels & funded by Qatari money. The channel already covers both NRL & SL including the Dragons. Bietry has already said he's not interested in covering the French Elite as it presently is but is on record as saying he wants to make "something of" their rugby league content. Dayan-Bietry are associates & know each other from the PSG RL days.

Bein Sport have invested hugely in soccer, buying a big stake in PSG & now competing with Canal plus for Champions League coverage. May be they see this new Super XIII as a summer filler, may be under floodlights midweek like our own Championship on Premier Sport.

After the loss of Montpellier this year & earlier at St Gaudens & Marseille the Elite 1 today hasn't got much to lose. Five clubs from one region, two from Mid Pyrenee & one each from Provence & Aquitaine is the present sum total. Bietry's the only man who will be able to give it any chance of working I think.
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Edited by audois, 25 October 2012 - 10:55 AM.

si tu (remi casty) devais envoyer un fax au president guasch?
"Un grand bravo pour tout ce que vous avez fait, et merci de m'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure."


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959


"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"
Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

#2 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:47 PM

Would this effectively just be the Elite 1 but franchised and with a larger salary cap?

Would it not be an option to push for more French inclusion in SL and fund that? Surely say 4 funded French SL teams would do more for French RL and be viewed by more?
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#3 winnyason

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:38 PM

Bein seem keen on Toulouse in sl. Crowds is what needs to improve in the elite / super xiii

#4 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:45 PM

Bein seem keen on Toulouse in sl. Crowds is what needs to improve in the elite / super xiii


Some sort of Heineken Cup would help, guaranteeing French clubs home games against SL clubs. Anglo-French comps at top level generate substantial interest in France

#5 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:13 PM

Some sort of Heineken Cup would help, guaranteeing French clubs home games against SL clubs. Anglo-French comps at top level generate substantial interest in France

But they won't in England whilst the French aren't strong in numbers, and that's the most important thing as that's where the money will come from. We need to grow the sport in France a bit at a time IMO.

My fear is that the Super XIII will be seen as a glorified LER, as Catalans will still be head and shoulders above the rest in France due to their involvement in a higher competition.
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#6 winnyason

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

The key is toulouse in superleague, this is what will improve there national team to competitive v big three. The super xiii to me will be championship standard to start with, I would imagine crowd averages of 2 to 4 thousand would be hoped for.

#7 foozler

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:28 PM

Would this effectively just be the Elite 1 but franchised and with a larger salary cap?

Would it not be an option to push for more French inclusion in SL and fund that? Surely say 4 funded French SL teams would do more for French RL and be viewed by more?


In the article he says quite clearly that top level domestic RL in France as exists at present is going nowhere and needs to change in order to develop. The article suggests he plans taking 7 existing Elite RL areas, including Toulouse, and adding another 5, with a view to making the most of under-used municipal stadia for the league. I presume this is going to run in the summer.

To be honest, I can't see that tacking another French side onto the SL is ever really going to do that much for the sport in France. Sure it may well help the development of players for the national side, but in order for the sport to do anything in the long term, there has to be a more interesting domestic competition for the French to get behind in bigger numbers. After all, let's remember that Super League for them is an English competition.

Strikes me some thought has gone into the project, particularly with the emphasis on this being a different rugby to the one most French people know with the 13 teams and the name Super Treize. Could all be pie in the sky but who knows, seems that M Dayan is a pretty serious business man having been parachuted into Lens RC by Credit Agricole to sort the club out.

#8 audois

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:42 AM

Yes it is a problem here that SL is just considered an English comp when the original concept back 17 years ago was a European one with two French clubs.It wont change until further additions are added. Toulouse pushing hard now may be for entry in 2015. With a third club you create 6 French derby games. With that the dynamics change fundamentally & some one like Bein Sport on board can capitalise. I see this Super XIII as complementing not challenging French participation in SL.

If you take Carcassonne as an example. They will play just 18 or so regular fixtures this year while the local USC union lot in Pro2 play thirty games - the ASC just haven't enough to chew on. First weekend in November they will play their first meaningful home game of the season against Limoux in a local derby which given a decent day should attract near 3000. This coming weekend for the Catalan derby Pia will be hoping for well over 2000 I should imagine for their game with St Esteve.

I notice that Dayan in the article refers to how Arles-Avignon who played last year in the Ligue 1 & utilise Parc des Sports where England played last autumn could link up with SOA. Obviously the soccer teams from the north would be more challenging. But Dayan must know that in his discussions with Larrat. A more coherent fixture list could raise the bar may be to 2-4000 which is far from where they are presently across the board. Its only a small point but the Dragons & hopefully Toulouse could test out fringe players in season which they can't do presently. A lot will depend also on the views of the incoming Federation President after the elections on November 17th.

Edited by audois, 25 October 2012 - 11:00 AM.

si tu (remi casty) devais envoyer un fax au president guasch?
"Un grand bravo pour tout ce que vous avez fait, et merci de m'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure."


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959


"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"
Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

#9 Jim from Oz

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:52 AM

It all sounds fascinating; I hope it works out. I'd love to see French rugby league grow and thrive, and one day beat the likes of Australia again.

1978 2-0 French RL series win v Australia is now 34 years ago!!!!

#10 audois

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:04 PM

Would this effectively just be the Elite 1 but franchised and with a larger salary cap?


I think thats what may be they're looking for. Elite 1 today is so lob sided it just doesn't work. Montpellier tried to start with a budget what 10% of that of Pia. Its not surprising they folded. Lescure & Villeneuve may be a third of the top sides. Just not working across the competition. Dayan may want all the franchises spending the same which would be novel over here. The other thing too if the grandiose project reaches the starting gate how it could impinge on the Championship across theChannel.

Edited by audois, 24 October 2012 - 05:38 PM.

si tu (remi casty) devais envoyer un fax au president guasch?
"Un grand bravo pour tout ce que vous avez fait, et merci de m'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure."


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959


"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"
Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

#11 winnyason

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:35 AM

Yeah seems to me that all teams involved will have heavy ties to soccer. Bar the traditional clubs that can survive under a nine hundred thousand cap. At a guess the big soccer teams involved would be lens, Paris, nantes , strasberg, lyon FC plus arles avignon, toulouse, pia, carcassonne, limoux lezignan. Doubting villenvue could get the funds to start.

#12 slowdive

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

I've just got back from France yesterday. I saw this as well and was going to post when I got back. My concern is that it will be another false start which ends up being a backward step for the game because it loses more credibility. I wonder how sustainable it would be if it doesn't even have the top two teams in the country (assuming Toulouse join Super League).
I'm all for strengthening the domestic game, but trying to create a national footprint off the back off what would be a second level standard of game is a tough ask.
RU is essentially a southern game in sport in France so I suppose you could argue Northern France is there to be claimed, but equally you could take the opposite view. Look at the problems we have in this country trying to establish a meaningful professional presence in South Yorkshire!
I'm not trying to be negative, but I think packed stadiums in Perpignan, Toulouse and maybe somewhere else (Paris) would do much more for the image of the game than 1500 in Limoux or Lens.
"At times to be silent is to lie. You will win because you have enough brute force. But you will not convince. For to convince you need to persuade. And in order to persuade you would need what you lack: Reason and Right."

#13 audois

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:32 AM

I'm not trying to be negative, but I think packed stadiums in Perpignan, Toulouse and maybe somewhere else (Paris) would do much more for the image of the game than 1500 in Limoux or Lens.


I agree. If it is one or the other having up to three Super League sides would for me still be the key. You've got three hubs of the game as it stands. Catalan-Aude served by the Dragons, Toulouse-Tarn-Aquitaine by TOXIII & up in Provence you've got Avignon-Vaucluse. These should be the three hubs supported by Elite1/2, National 1 and Federal clubs. You've got an outline of that today. A structure exists there behind those three entities, not great but something to build on. Today in Perpignan behind the Dragons you've got two of the best Elite 1 sides in Pia & St Esteve & two of the strongest Elite 2 sides in Palau and Baho. It can be replicated I believe with a lot of hard work around both Toulouse and Avignon. The people at SOA though feel that the Super XIII concept may indeed help them grow to become a Super League candidate so it would be a vehicle to get them where they want to be long term.

Before the Dayan-Larrat project was conceived I felt that the local game should have taken a step backwards concentrating just on restructuring & development. Presently you have an Elite 1 of nine clubs with no takers from behind. Former Elite 1 notables like Lyon, Carpentras, St Gaudens, Villefranche, Albi & Tonneins have effectively given up the chase not able to spend by a long way what the top 3 or 4 can. If the Super XIII doesn't go they should for me establish at top/lower limit budget of say €300,000 for Elite 1 & €100,000 for Elite 2. With that they would have a better chance of getting two divisions of 12.

Edited by audois, 26 October 2012 - 06:53 PM.

si tu (remi casty) devais envoyer un fax au president guasch?
"Un grand bravo pour tout ce que vous avez fait, et merci de m'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure."


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959


"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"
Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

#14 Southstander13

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:58 PM

1978 2-0 French RL series win v Australia is now 34 years ago!!!!


Ahhh, we can only dream of having won a series as recent as that!