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The pros and cons of club link ups


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#41 LOWFIELD

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:27 AM

and so it goes on.... and on.... and on.... and on.......


36000 times

#42 Simon Hall

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:52 AM

i will not be spending it at any feeder club.


That's good then, 'cos there aren't any.

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#43 The Parksider

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:15 AM

I recall when Barrow AFC played Darlington in a home game when Darlington feared it may be the last game in the clubs history due to financial troubles and I helped hold up a huge banner which read 'A football club is for life, not just for Business.' It received a fairly decent amount of attention on twitter from pundits and journalists. The same statement comes to mind in this situation but with RL clubs. Sport isn't a business in the eyes of the majority of fans, it never has and it never will be. This 'link up' removes many of the aspects why you support a club. I support my club because everything which goes behind it, the community, the fans, the local coaching and players and the way it is run to please fans. In this system you are removing the latter 3 which will result in the clubs loyal fans leaving and then the community will not get involved as you are basically being a branch of an SL club. You are basically removing the soul of clubs and what makes them clubs. There is a huge difference between a club and a business plan, I don't care about a business plan but I care about my club. The statement 'A football club is for life not just for business,' is very true and this system just goes totally against it.

I can understand if you disagree its more of a matter of opinions rather than who's right or wrong.


A brilliant paragraph there, and an excellent rider so I won't say you are wrong.

I too as someone with a club who was the first to come out and be a feeder recognise everything you say.

My dad introduced me to Hunslet and my mates introduced me to Leeds. My dad got there first so that's where the heart is. The head watched as Leeds picked off our best after the 1965 cup final - Ramsey and Kenny Eyre - then I watched as the best never turned up and went elsewhere by passing us - Heron and Schofield. We still ran as a proper pro club does - colts, "A" team and then Seniors. We still competed and occasionally became first division - we beat Leeds in 1978 WOW! what a day.

We had ambition and we achieved although our success was relative. We still had local lads who'd become heroes, some still left Jimmy Lowes and Sonny Nickle and Jamie Thackray, some stayed to became club legends like Graham King and Mick Coyle, but all this went pop in 2000 when SL shut the door.

Since then we just "survived" and it wasn't much fun. Gates dropped. Players we never got to know came and went in droves, and the club just weren't attractive to the majority type of fan who wants to see their team win as much as possible, so they either packed in or went to Leeds. New fans just went to Leeds.

Even the fans who started watching the club because they liked the lower division game and the struggle - many people don't "follow the crowd" I didn't and four mates didn't, - started to peel away until we could count a crowd in two minutes..........

2006 Hunslet.v.Barrow 311

2008 Hunslet.v.Workington 314 we came 34th. out of 34 in the Rugby Football League that year.

This all came to a head when Stephen Ball called the fans together. We all came 150 of us - I counted us. I was one of the youngest there for heavens sake. Syd Rookes at 92 was the oldest, I have pictures of Rookes in action for the club. Ball bullied people into reaching into their pockets but my heart was not in it any more. Knowing the history of the club - what made it rise, what made it strong, what made it succeed against the odds, and why it captured hearts - i didn't think losing a couple of hundred quid to Ball (whom Hetherington had sent to save us but who publicly vowed not to put a penny in the club) was something my heart was going to do.

My heart said let the flaming thing die a respectable death. My opinion that's all...........

Yes a football club is more for life than business, but there are times when your own life cycle supporting a club comes to an end and there are times when the clubs life cycle also comes to and end and that is best illustrated by my good friends at Bramley.

The link up with Leeds to me (and I was a big "A" team fan) makes Hunslet Leeds "A" team full stop. It doesn't matter what "labels" (it's still Hunslet) and slants (It's good for the game) and "advantages" (it will secure the clubs future, you'll get to see exciting players) you want to put on things on my behalf.

All that counts is as you say Mr. Barrow raiderskid with an old mans head on his shoulders "a matter of opinions rather than who's right or wrong".

I'll not fully articulate my opinion as I respect entirely what Blackpool Hawk and his colleagues are doing, and personally want to do. I'll just take the decsion Duncan Bannatyne usually takes on Dragon's Den when his heart isn't in a proposal.

#44 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:24 AM

and so it goes on.... and on.... and on.... and on.......


what are your views on the morality and fairness of tax avoidance?
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#45 Robin Evans

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:35 AM

36000 times

Suggy. Do thi sen a favour here. Chris' posts so obviously wind you up. Stay away from him. There is no need to go searching for him. I could be wrong here but it looks like Chris is staying away from our forum for the time being at least. That should be enough for you that you coast is clear for all things fev....No need to barge in regardless if his verbage gives you the hump. Just keep thi distance for the sake of humanity and everything that's sane! All you're doing is causing more crapola that 99% of folks don't want to read and moving away from the topic being discussed.
"he started it" sheeite???? Give it a rest now monkey boy!

Edited by Robin Evans, 25 October 2012 - 11:43 AM.

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#46 Robin Evans

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:40 AM

what are your views on the morality and fairness of tax avoidance?

Chris. Give it a rest mate. Your propensity for responding and exacerbating toxic interactions - thread after thread- causing de-railment after de-railment doesn't lend itself to forum enjoyment either. Ignore suggy or whoever is giving you the hump if that is the case. But this topic is NOT about you and suggy yet we are treated to more of the same. A "well he started it sir" does not help! Honestly mate, it does no-one any good (barring perhaps yourself, only you can answer that)by responding how you do.

This thread isn't about tax avoidance Chris.

Yours in Zealotry........

Edited by Robin Evans, 25 October 2012 - 01:35 PM.

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#47 Gav Wilson

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:40 AM

I've never known why folk allow themselves to get so wound up by someone they will probably never meet on the internets.
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#48 sheddings69

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:44 AM

I've never known why folk allow themselves to get so wound up by someone they will probably never meet on the internets.


Wait....there's more than one internet?

#49 Robin Evans

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:50 AM

I've never known why folk allow themselves to get so wound up by someone they will probably never meet on the internets.

I know em both well. They're both my mates!!!! Can you remember that programme on BBC2 about 12 years ago - "living with the enemy"? There was an interesting peice of social commentary when 2 apparent homophobes FROM Lock Lane R.L.F.C went to live with a gay couple in London for a fortnight. That kind of thing. Rail crash TV!!
Now Chris living at Suggy's for a fortnight would make that look like a birthday party at the Walton's!

Edited by Robin Evans, 25 October 2012 - 12:12 PM.

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#50 oldrover

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:09 PM

I know em both well. They're both my mates!!!! Can you remember that programme on BBC2 about 12 years ago - "living with the enemy"? There was an interesting peice of social commentary when 2 apparent homophobes went to live with a gay couple in London for a fortnight. That kind of thing. Rail crash TV!!Now Chris living at Suggy's for a fortnight would make that look like a birthday party at the Walton's!

Robin, the imagery conjured up by that post is mind blowing.
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#51 Gav Wilson

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:22 PM

I know em both well. They're both my mates!!!! Can you remember that programme on BBC2 about 12 years ago - "living with the enemy"? There was an interesting peice of social commentary when 2 apparent homophobes FROM Lock Lane R.L.F.C went to live with a gay couple in London for a fortnight. That kind of thing. Rail crash TV!!
Now Chris living at Suggy's for a fortnight would make that look like a birthday party at the Walton's!


I bet in real life they would get on like a house on fire... ;)
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#52 HKR AWAY DAYS

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:33 PM

I wish I'd never asked now haha!!

#53 RSN

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:45 PM

Let me get this right....you are claiming Rugby League is 'all about making money', yet give a football club as an example of honourable endeavour and fighting against big business?

:D :D :D :D

You couldn't make it up, except you just did.

I don't see your point? I used a football club as an example because they used the statement? The rest of the sport and is not relevant to the point whatsoever, I just believe in the statement which was put up and so did the 2,000 or so fans in the ground.

Edited by barrowraiderskid, 25 October 2012 - 12:46 PM.


#54 RSN

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:50 PM

No it didn't whatsoever. It was the 'sports clubs are not businesses' routine. Then he uses football as a great example. Perhaps Man Utd or Liverpool have morphed into charities overnight but they are definitely businesses, perhaps you think their share price indicates otherwise?

Fear not though, because Rugby League can exist in a vacuum unaffected by modern business issues.

Quote me where I used Manchester United and Liverpool as examples? You've got the word 'football' into your head and assumed I made the comparision which I didn't and you've missed the point.

#55 RSN

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

Its been about making money since, er let me think, oh yes, 1895, the problem is its been about making it and apart from a short post WWII spell its made none.

You don't need to make money in just this climate, you need to make it in every climate.

What is happening is that, for those clubs that want it, is the call for SL money to be spread around is actually happening, SL clubs are providing players, coaches and facilities to clubs who may never have access to people and facilities of that standard. The SL club aren't taking a cut in the business, they don't want a cut of beer and pie money, they do want to spread some costs and improve the throughput of RL players across the board, yes they hope they gain an advantage from it, then again the championship clubs are seeking to gain an advantage as well.

Maybe the championship clubs signing up are being realistic about where their future lies, maybe the ones not signing up are the only ones with true SL ambitions and don't talk the SL here we come crapolla to try make them look like something they are a long way off.

Like it or not, we live in the world of season 2013 coming up and not in the season 1895, 1913, 1973 or 1994. 1913 was a world away in RL terms from 1895 and 1973 was a solar system away from 1913, by 1994 the distance was heading to galaxy away from 1973 and exponentially we are now even further away, we are on the edges of the universe compared to 1994.

The departure from our past is accelerating, and if you try and turn around and go back you'll just find everyone else moving in the opposite direction.

Forget the past it is done, that doesn't mean forget history, don't think for one minute that dumping the past is dumping 'tradition', RL has a 'tradition' of dumping the past, We need to move forward, all of the time, moving forward means re-evaluating all the time where we stand (as a game, as clubs, as supporters) in the scheme of things.

Very good post and I agree on most points. I just feel there needs to be a better balance of moving forward but still keeping your identity as a club. The main point I tried to make is that this system removes the reason you support a club, especially for the 'die hard fans.' Maybe this is the only sustainable way CC clubs can sustain in this climate and if so then it's the right choice, but I just think there way be better ways of being sustainable without coming overly reliant on an SL club and removing big parts of the tradition of clubs.

#56 RSN

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:01 PM

A brilliant paragraph there, and an excellent rider so I won't say you are wrong.

I too as someone with a club who was the first to come out and be a feeder recognise everything you say.

My dad introduced me to Hunslet and my mates introduced me to Leeds. My dad got there first so that's where the heart is. The head watched as Leeds picked off our best after the 1965 cup final - Ramsey and Kenny Eyre - then I watched as the best never turned up and went elsewhere by passing us - Heron and Schofield. We still ran as a proper pro club does - colts, "A" team and then Seniors. We still competed and occasionally became first division - we beat Leeds in 1978 WOW! what a day.

We had ambition and we achieved although our success was relative. We still had local lads who'd become heroes, some still left Jimmy Lowes and Sonny Nickle and Jamie Thackray, some stayed to became club legends like Graham King and Mick Coyle, but all this went pop in 2000 when SL shut the door.

Since then we just "survived" and it wasn't much fun. Gates dropped. Players we never got to know came and went in droves, and the club just weren't attractive to the majority type of fan who wants to see their team win as much as possible, so they either packed in or went to Leeds. New fans just went to Leeds.

Even the fans who started watching the club because they liked the lower division game and the struggle - many people don't "follow the crowd" I didn't and four mates didn't, - started to peel away until we could count a crowd in two minutes..........

2006 Hunslet.v.Barrow 311

2008 Hunslet.v.Workington 314 we came 34th. out of 34 in the Rugby Football League that year.

This all came to a head when Stephen Ball called the fans together. We all came 150 of us - I counted us. I was one of the youngest there for heavens sake. Syd Rookes at 92 was the oldest, I have pictures of Rookes in action for the club. Ball bullied people into reaching into their pockets but my heart was not in it any more. Knowing the history of the club - what made it rise, what made it strong, what made it succeed against the odds, and why it captured hearts - i didn't think losing a couple of hundred quid to Ball (whom Hetherington had sent to save us but who publicly vowed not to put a penny in the club) was something my heart was going to do.

My heart said let the flaming thing die a respectable death. My opinion that's all...........

Yes a football club is more for life than business, but there are times when your own life cycle supporting a club comes to an end and there are times when the clubs life cycle also comes to and end and that is best illustrated by my good friends at Bramley.

The link up with Leeds to me (and I was a big "A" team fan) makes Hunslet Leeds "A" team full stop. It doesn't matter what "labels" (it's still Hunslet) and slants (It's good for the game) and "advantages" (it will secure the clubs future, you'll get to see exciting players) you want to put on things on my behalf.

All that counts is as you say Mr. Barrow raiderskid with an old mans head on his shoulders "a matter of opinions rather than who's right or wrong".

I'll not fully articulate my opinion as I respect entirely what Blackpool Hawk and his colleagues are doing, and personally want to do. I'll just take the decsion Duncan Bannatyne usually takes on Dragon's Den when his heart isn't in a proposal.

Brilliant post I agree with the last 4 paragraphs completely and the first few show how much passion you have for your club.

#57 Dave T

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:24 PM

Wait....there's more than one internet?

Yep, unfortunately you don't meet the criteria for our SuperNet :P

#58 Johnoco

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:35 PM

Quote me where I used Manchester United and Liverpool as examples? You've got the word 'football' into your head and assumed I made the comparision which I didn't and you've missed the point.


You were praising a football team whilst declaring that RL is all about making money now. Well look into it and you'll find that if any sport is now about money, its football. I'm sure there are exceptions and your post was not wrong in essence but can you seriously tell me that soccer has not been affected by the money.

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#59 sheddings69

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:57 PM

Yep, unfortunately you don't meet the criteria for our SuperNet :P


See what you did there.....marvellous!!

#60 Robin Evans

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:04 PM

Yep, unfortunately you don't meet the criteria for our SuperNet :P

agreed.... amusing! :lol: :lol:
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