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Should the RFL take some responsibility from the clubs?


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#21 gingerjon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:05 AM

It would appear the money on offer was paltry.


I think we did the maths based on information in the public domain and it was, at most, £15,000 per club for the season.
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#22 Marty Funkhouser

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:06 AM

Do you think it is easy selling a small time sport like RL in the current climate?
What would you do to ensure packed houses at every game?

I don't know the answers but clearly you do. Why aren't you doing the job?


Are you Mr Wood's personal apologist??

In the top three spectator team sports in the UK and the second most watched team sport on the major dedicated sports channel in the UK...

By your reckoning any sport in the UK other than soccer is "small time" but i do not see many giving away the title rights to their elite competiton for some poor , inefficient marketing "campaign".

The RFL and its member clubs that have supported its decisions and the direction it has taken the game have made their own beds i am afraid.

#23 gingerjon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:14 AM

the direction it has taken the game


Better supported and wealthier than at any time in its history?
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#24 Marty Funkhouser

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:14 AM

I think we did the maths based on information in the public domain and it was, at most, £15,000 per club for the season.


As the figure publicly quoted was £750,000 per year your maths is awry...and Betfair are masters of marketing, it is in their own interest to make whatever sport they involve themselves in stronger , many other sports are welcome of their involvement, it was a winning situation all round. Stobarts hardly appear to have any motivation whatsoever.

#25 Marty Funkhouser

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:15 AM

Better supported and wealthier than at any time in its history?


Incorrect on both counts...unless RL started with Super League that it...

Edited by Marty Funkhouser, 25 October 2012 - 08:16 AM.


#26 gingerjon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:21 AM

many other sports are welcome of their involvement


Such as?

(Genuine question: I have a feeling they sponsor snooker but can't think of any others).
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#27 EastLondonMike

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:24 AM

Heard recently the Betfair deal was actually 5m over 3 years..

Edited by EastLondonMike, 25 October 2012 - 08:24 AM.

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#28 Dave T

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:24 AM

As the figure publicly quoted was £750,000 per year your maths is awry...and Betfair are masters of marketing, it is in their own interest to make whatever sport they involve themselves in stronger , many other sports are welcome of their involvement, it was a winning situation all round. Stobarts hardly appear to have any motivation whatsoever.

The only mention I saw of £750k was over 3 years - £250k per year (£16k per year split 15 ways). This would get them more coverage from every club than a minor sponsor would get at these same clubs.

If you have any links to anything higher than this then could you show us.

#29 gingerjon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:24 AM

Incorrect on both counts...unless RL started with Super League that it...


I started watching rugby league in 1987 and the sport was pretty much broke and playing to empty terraces.
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#30 Dave T

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:26 AM

Heard recently the Betfair deal was actually 5m over 3 years..

If that was the case, and personally I am cynical of that, then I would happily change my opinion and call them idiots for not taking such a deal.

I would be stunned if clubs would vote against this deal though (no point people comingon talking about exclusive deals etc. - we have had loads of sponsorships which conflict with central deals - William Hills were sponsors until last year).

#31 gingerjon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:31 AM

If that was the case, and personally I am cynical of that, then I would happily change my opinion and call them idiots for not taking such a deal.

I would be stunned if clubs would vote against this deal though (no point people comingon talking about exclusive deals etc. - we have had loads of sponsorships which conflict with central deals - William Hills were sponsors until last year).


£750,000 for a single season was, I believe, what went in the League Express of the time.

Betfair at over £1.5m a season for three years would have been (again, based on LE figures and statements on here) the biggest deal ever given to Super League.
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#32 Marty Funkhouser

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:35 AM

The only mention I saw of £750k was over 3 years - £250k per year (£16k per year split 15 ways). This would get them more coverage from every club than a minor sponsor would get at these same clubs.

If you have any links to anything higher than this then could you show us.


http://www.google.co...mKxcp7A&cad=rja

Edited by Marty Funkhouser, 25 October 2012 - 08:37 AM.


#33 Marty Funkhouser

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:39 AM

£750,000 for a single season was, I believe, what went in the League Express of the time.

Betfair at over £1.5m a season for three years would have been (again, based on LE figures and statements on here) the biggest deal ever given to Super League.


It was widely reported that the Engage deal was £1.2 million per year...

#34 Dave T

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:07 AM

http://www.google.co...mKxcp7A&cad=rja

Cheers.

One thing that should be remembered is that the RFL's strategy was to get in a few 'Associate' Sponsors, who would in effect make up a panel of sponsors and reduce the financial impact of the title sponsorship being handed out for no cash (this was not free - payment was just not in cash).
Unfortunately this did not come to fruition, whether that is the RFL Commercial Team's incompetence, or a really tough market, or whatever, we don't know, but it was a bold strategy which unfortunately did not come off.
Instead of bringing in new sponsors, the game has lost sponsor after sponsor this year - William Hill, DeWalt, Emirates to name a few.
I don't think the strategy was necessarily wrong, it makes sense to spread out your reliance on sponsors, but the fact is that RL as a sport does not have the likes of Investment Bankers and Insurance Companies lined up to sponsor us.
I wouldn't accept an RFL Commercial role for £1m per year - you are on a hiding to nothing.

FWIW - personally I'd take a sponsorship from a betting company, or alcohol.

#35 gingerjon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:08 AM

It was widely reported that the Engage deal was £1.2 million per year...


And was - according to the Telegraph article linked to - lower than that offered by 888.com.
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#36 Johnoco

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:08 AM

Are you Mr Wood's personal apologist??

In the top three spectator team sports in the UK and the second most watched team sport on the major dedicated sports channel in the UK...

By your reckoning any sport in the UK other than soccer is "small time" but i do not see many giving away the title rights to their elite competiton for some poor , inefficient marketing "campaign".

The RFL and its member clubs that have supported its decisions and the direction it has taken the game have made their own beds i am afraid.


If RL was as well placed as you claim, the money would be rolling in from sponsors. Get real, there's Football, RU, Cricket, Golf, F1, Tennis miles ahead of us in the queue for the shrinking pot of money available from sponsors.

I have no access to the real amount offered by Betfair and if it was as large as you claim, then I will be the first in the queue to be calling them idiots. But we don't know and I would be genuinely surprised if they, and the clubs, turned down so much hard cash. I'd also like to know where these mega sponsorship deals were in the past because they don't seem to have existed but people now suddenly demand the earth or else?

The Stobart deal hasn't worked out like they hoped so they are sacking it. It didn't but it could have worked. Some people were very vocal on twitter etc that 'you don't give away things like that'. Well generally no but sometimes such tactics work. The top selling mags today are Nuts & Zoo. I remember one of these mags printed and distributed a million, that's one million, copies free upon launching the mag. Working in the print industry I know that wasn't cheap, yet it worked and worked bloody well

Look at the Xmas book market. All the top 'celebs' are selling their books half price or less etc. Don't they know you shouldn't sell yourself short? Or maybe the publishers know the market is struggling and act accordingly.

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#37 Dave T

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:29 AM

If RL was as well placed as you claim, the money would be rolling in from sponsors. Get real, there's Football, RU, Cricket, Golf, F1, Tennis miles ahead of us in the queue for the shrinking pot of money available from sponsors.

And that is the black and white of it.

One area where I do think we may have stitched ourselves up somewhat is around the ethics of sponsorship. This is mentioned in the Telegraph article, and seems to have been a move since Lewis took over. We have avoided things like alcohol and gambling as major sponsors. Personally I would take these sponsorship deals.

Most sports have deals with Alcohol companies - RL now does not have an official beer (although Magners do sponsor many clubs). Nobody looks down at the Heineken Cup because of it's association to lager.

Gambling is a slightly more contentious one due to some of the betting scandals knocking round sport, but then we should not forget that it is a perfectly legal activity in this country.

I can understand the approach, but I do think it leaves us in a more difficult position than many sports now, when tbh we are already well behind these sports in the queue.

#38 Johnoco

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:33 AM

Agree with that Dave. Principles are fine but they don't pay the bills. And as you say, there's nothing illegal there.

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Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

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#39 EastLondonMike

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:48 AM

I think the thing the RFL hung their hat on was that Betfair wanted complete coverage, naming rights, goal post coverings etc etc.. and the RFL thought they could make more by keeping all those elements seperate.. and when it came to selling those rights, they quite simply couldn't

Theres an interview on http://www.runningrugby.com with the new RFL marketing guy James Mercer. Well worth a look.

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#40 JohnM

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:48 AM

What should happen, in an ideal world, is that the franchises should be issued according to very strict rules and codes of conduct; any franchisee that broke them would automatically lose their franchise. This assumes a line of people queuing up to take over said franchises and could possibly be where the theory falls down.


I agree with that, but I do not see that the the theory breaks down. Rather, I see it that the RFL side of the deal needs to do better.

The RFL should in my view set, police and regulate the standards, which it very much does already. the comparison is say the Subway franchise..each one stands or falls by its compliance with the standards and by its own individual performance within that....but all within a strong and consistent framework that drives business (or fans) -strategic and tactical marketing, sales etc across the whole piece. I think the RFL have a long way to go in this but each year they are getting better.




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