43 replies to this topic

[barrowraiderskid]

is ellis playing? i personally would play him in hte centres to strengthen our left edge up, only watkins a worthy centre at the moment.( all this for world cup though) pointless against france and wales my team for opening WC game
1.tomkins 2.charnley 3.watkins 4.ellis 5.briscoe 6.widdop 7.myler 8.burgess 9.roby 10.graham 11.westwood 12.hock 13.o'loughlin/sinfield

You have Widdop and Myler in the halves then you are forced to play Sinfield, which IMO at 33 he will be a liability up against Gallen or whoever plays 13 for Aus. Reed and Hall formed a good partnership last year, I'd like to see it again, I don't know on what planet you can pick Charnley and Briscoe over hall who is considered the best winger in the world and has proven himself good enough against the Aussies. Reed should be picked also as Watkins and Atkins both have weaknesses in their games, but another season may change my mind as all are young.

[OMEGA]

Ellis's days at centre are well behind him, you could put him there and he'd offer a physical element to your edge defence but would be susceptible to pace and agility. Offensively you'd get the same type of issue, he'd be physical and direct but would lack the agility, pace and subtle handling skills of a genuine international centre.

Watkins and Atkins are the two best centres available to us and they deserve a shot before being written off, McNamara needs to put his personal differences with Atkins to one side.

I still think a fit Danny Brough alongside Gareth Widdop is the most promising half back pairing available to England with Myler and Lomax being the other options at scrum half while Ratchford and Gale would be our only options at stand off. I refuse to even consider Chase as an option.

[southstand loiner]

I see your point, and whilst I rate Sinfield as an all round better player than Briers, he lacks that magical spark (I'm trying to avoid using the word x-factor but I've just failed) for mine where you never know what he's going to do. I won't deny I don't see him every week so this may be slightly unfair.

At least both are better than Chase.

the point about sinfield is while he seems to coast through a game doing nothing in particular he in fact moves the team around the pitch and changes the tempo of them game when he see fit and of course when he is on top of his game there is no better kicker of a ball in the british game than sinfield .
he is the ideal man to make sure a game plan is carried out and does not panic if things are going wrong . who else do we have who can carry out those tasks to such a high standard.
the xfactor players need somebody to provide the platform for them to play on otherwise they cant preform as effectivly .
as for him been named at standoff thats not really an issue as he could preform the same role from scrumhalf or looseforward or even 2nd row

[JohnM]

I think it is combo worth playing. Sure, it has to be more than an experiment, it would have to have been thought through and discussed and simulated in training.


Ditto Sinfiled ast 6 and Sam Tomkins at scrum half with Hardacre at Cold Comfort Farm - sorry that was Starkadder at fullback

[getdownmonkeyman]

the point about sinfield is while he seems to coast through a game doing nothing in particular he in fact moves the team around the pitch and changes the tempo of them game when he see fit and of course when he is on top of his game there is no better kicker of a ball in the british game than sinfield .
he is the ideal man to make sure a game plan is carried out and does not panic if things are going wrong . who else do we have who can carry out those tasks to such a high standard.
the xfactor players need somebody to provide the platform for them to play on otherwise they cant preform as effectivly .
as for him been named at standoff thats not really an issue as he could preform the same role from scrumhalf or looseforward or even 2nd row

I think you have just described Sinfield to a tee. He will never produce a incredible x factor piece of play (sorry Riding and Dave), but he will kick well, complete his passes and direct play. I would imagine he is a coach's dream, such is his consistency.

[southstand loiner]

well they looked to be a good partnership against the welsh with sinfield directing the team around and kicking fairly well and myler injecting himself into the game when he could make use of his speed and passing skills . certainly worth another game against the french to see if they can do the same against slightly better oppsition

[OMEGA]

I've no doubt they'll do well against the French and SMc will use that to justify selecting them against Aus & NZ where they and consequently England will fail miserably.

We've been here before........

[southstand loiner]

I've no doubt they'll do well against the French and SMc will use that to justify selecting them against Aus & NZ where they and consequently England will fail miserably.

We've been here before........

yes we have and we have chopped and changed far to often .
whoever we pick we need a fast halfback with a good passing game and an eye for a gap and a good organiser who can move the team around and change the tempo of a game within a given game plan and who does not panic when things are going wrong and devates away from the plan . also a good kicker of the ball and somebody who is respected by his team mates .
for me that sounds like myler and sinfield .
we do not need 2 halfbacks who do the same job of been individual talents but unable to effectevly organise a team which if you put a combanation with the likes of myler, widdup, brough, or chase would be he case

[Ex-Kirkholt]

I think you have just described Sinfield to a tee. He will never produce a incredible x factor piece of play (sorry Riding and Dave), but he will kick well, complete his passes and direct play. I would imagine he is a coach's dream, such is his consistency.

Sinfield is also a great tackler.

[RidingPie]

the point about sinfield is while he seems to coast through a game doing nothing in particular he in fact moves the team around the pitch and changes the tempo of them game when he see fit and of course when he is on top of his game there is no better kicker of a ball in the british game than sinfield .
he is the ideal man to make sure a game plan is carried out and does not panic if things are going wrong . who else do we have who can carry out those tasks to such a high standard.
the xfactor players need somebody to provide the platform for them to play on otherwise they cant preform as effectivly .
as for him been named at standoff thats not really an issue as he could preform the same role from scrumhalf or looseforward or even 2nd row

as I said I rate Sinfield as a better player than Briers, so please don't take that as criticism of him. I just like one of the halfbacks to be a flair player x-factor, and lets be honest, Myler isn't either.

[JohnM]

Sinfield, yes, so let trust that he is allowed to retain the captaincy AND stand-off position. Still would prefer Tomkins as scrum half. ( stand by for ridicule)

Sam has attitude, awareness, vision, acceleration, skill, elusiveness..and what is almost more importantly, he is really irritating! All ideal qualities for a number 7...think Murphy, Gregory, Edwards, etc etc

Mr 'ardcastle at full-back, too. an attacking full-back!! God I love this game!!!!

[RidingPie]

Sinfield, yes, so let trust that he is allowed to retain the captaincy AND stand-off position. Still would prefer Tomkins as scrum half. ( stand by for ridicule)

Sam has attitude, awareness, vision, acceleration, skill, elusiveness..and what is almost more importantly, he is really irritating! All ideal qualities for a number 7...think Murphy, Gregory, Edwards, etc etc

Mr 'ardcastle at full-back, too. an attacking full-back!! God I love this game!!!!

I'd agree with the above

[OMEGA]

yes we have and we have chopped and changed far to often .
whoever we pick we need a fast halfback with a good passing game and an eye for a gap and a good organiser who can move the team around and change the tempo of a game within a given game plan and who does not panic when things are going wrong and devates away from the plan . also a good kicker of the ball and somebody who is respected by his team mates .
for me that sounds like myler and sinfield .
we do not need 2 halfbacks who do the same job of been individual talents but unable to effectevly organise a team which if you put a combanation with the likes of myler, widdup, brough, or chase would be he case

Sounds more like Brough - Widdop to me who at least retain the possibility, until proved otherwise, of being up to the job when faced with World Class opposition!

I've got all the respect and administration in the world for Kevin Sinfield who is one of the best players I've seen grace English Rugby League, unfortunately despite numerous chances he's been unable to reach those high standards when it really matters ie when faced with Australia and New Zealand.
I'd love to be proved wrong but I don't think I will be and what's more because of past failures over the last 8 years or so Sinfield should not be given another chance to prove or disprove my theory.

Myler is another story, the jury is still out on him and we won't really know until he's been properly tested!

[getdownmonkeyman]

I'd agree with the above

I don't. In fact I really couldn't disagree more. Tomkins works at his best in broken play, returning the ball from fullback with the full width of the pitch to work with, added to a less than set defensive line is manna from heaven for him.

Put in him the halves where the defensive line is structured, is within ten metres of him, will result in his attacking prowess being blunted. Put two good passers in the halves, the type who can create space for him to work with and let him do what he does best.

[RidingPie]

I don't. In fact I really couldn't disagree more. Tomkins works at his best in broken play, returning the ball from fullback with the full width of the pitch to work with, added to a less than set defensive line is manna from heaven for him.

Put in him the halves where the defensive line is structured, is within ten metres of him, will result in his attacking prowess being blunted. Put two good passers in the halves, the type who can create space for him to work with and let him do what he does best.

The first line, for me is demonstrably wrong. Most of Tomkins tries and try assists come not from 1st tackle kick returns but rather 3rd or 4th tackle plays against a set defence I honestly think he'll end up back at half back, probably in 2 or 3 years assuming he doesn't go to the NRL or get gobbled up by the dark side.

The second part about defence I do agree with to some degree, but if he's as bad under the high ball as most people say (I don't think he his, he has a weakness but I don't think he's as bad as some people make out) then surely we want to take that pressure off him.

[JohnM]

Understand. But consider these.
- How much "broken play" is there, so how many opportunities would he have?
- "Put two good passers in the halves"..like Tomkins?
- The way you describe the PTB makes it sound too formulaic and the defence would easily cope
- It's his speed off the mark going forward, plus his elusiveness that Aus would in my opinion find harder to handle than a couple of predictable passers

[Dave T]

Myler is another story, the jury is still out on him and we won't really know until he's been properly tested!

I'm not sure what Myler has to do to prove himself tbh.

He plays consistently well week in week out in one of the best teams in the league, had a blinding game at Wembley, has improved his game week on week, yet for some reason people would rather see somebody like Lomax in there. Brough is talented, but he doesn;t do it week in week out, and certainly has never been properly tested at the highest level.

[1976PMJwires]

I'm not sure what Myler has to do to prove himself tbh.

He plays consistently well week in week out in one of the best teams in the league, had a blinding game at Wembley, has improved his game week on week, yet for some reason people would rather see somebody like Lomax in there. Brough is talented, but he doesn;t do it week in week out, and certainly has never been properly tested at the highest level.

Banging your head against a brick wall Dave!!!
I've given up on getting upset when people slate / debate/ moan / troll / etc etc about our players!!!

Myler did well, created a few tries, did some things well and tackled better than most 7's - made a few errors, but so did England as a whole.

Myler isn't a poor player, like you said he's improved and deserves his chance ahead of Lomax and Brough *

* England doesn't need Brough and Sinfield playing in the same team IMHO

[Dave T]

Banging your head against a brick wall Dave!!!
I've given up on getting upset when people slate / debate/ moan / troll / etc etc about our players!!!

Myler did well, created a few tries, did some things well and tackled better than most 7's - made a few errors, but so did England as a whole.

Myler isn't a poor player, like you said he's improved and deserves his chance ahead of Lomax and Brough *

* England doesn't need Brough and Sinfield playing in the same team IMHO

Personally I've no issues with Brough being selected, but I'd also be perfectly happy with Myler in there. Both of these are well ahead of Lomax IMHO, and I'm not getting involved in a Chase discussion!

[1976PMJwires]

Personally I've no issues with Brough being selected, but I'd also be perfectly happy with Myler in there. Both of these are well ahead of Lomax IMHO, and I'm not getting involved in a Chase discussion!

I'd only select brough if there was no sinfield.

Chase, yep, me done on that subject.