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Wales v England, Wrexham. 27/10/2012 K.O. 2.30pm


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#161 John Rhino

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:05 AM

Nothing to complain about in Dave Hadfields article in the independent today.
Correctly focussed on the selection dilemma for the next game.
Good to see we have this problem in rugby. It occupies most of the stories printed about other sports so why not us?

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#162 brooza

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:16 AM

Nothing to complain about in Dave Hadfields article in the independent today.
Correctly focussed on the selection dilemma for the next game.
Good to see we have this problem in rugby. It occupies most of the stories printed about other sports so why not us?

Similar article in the Guardian
http://www.guardian....es-rugby-league
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#163 JohnM

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:20 AM

aye, he's a gud 'un! underwhelming Autumn International Series

#164 brooza

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:33 AM

aye, he's a gud 'un! underwhelming Autumn International Series

Aye, I'd not read the whole thing through when posting
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#165 JohnM

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:48 AM

in my view, it wasn't a bad article at all. Just the odd throwaway snide remark. It must be a miserable "Mrs feckin Browns Boys" existence being a journo. Riley tweeted, "Can't see the benefit of this fixture or series really. And I love the game."

#166 dhw

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

I do - fans want to watch games where results are in doubt


If Chelmsford United played a full Strength Arsenal team at home in the F.A. cup what percentage of regular Chelmsford fans would watch the game? How many casual fans and neutrals would attend ? Would the crowd be significantly below the typical attendance ?

The bigger the opposition generally speaking the larger the crowd. Fans of sport go watch games for a number of reasons, most games the result is believed to be fairly predicatble in the footballing codes. So belief a game is close will have less impact than many other factors.

#167 dhw

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:23 PM

The view of the Aussies 10 years or so ago was that England/GB were so far behind that it wasn't worth bothering with. Fortunately Richard Lewis stuck to his guns and conjured up one way or another for us to play them. We've improved since then, maybe not enough - we'll see next November.

Are you sure about this. The last Ashes series was 3:0 but Australia struggled in each of the tests with winning margins of 4,3 and 6. That compares very favourably with results since then. The previous ashes in england was won 2:1 by Australia. England/GB depth has improved but arguably performances have not and neither have the results.


The present international scene is far from ideal but it's an awful lot better than it was in 2000, and with the constraints there are in rugby league, it's probably the best we can get at the moment. A successful World Cup next year is the next big opportunity to change the landscape in a significant way.


In terms of who is playing and development of players in existing and new regions it has improved remarkably. At elite level thebbig 3 is still the big 3 (with England/GB having slipped behind) but no team looks like challenging the big 3 any time soon. What would help is more professional competitions (NRL is producing a large number of players for various teams). The biggest impact from the world cup might be players in the developing nations being picked up by SL or NRL clubs.

#168 jannerboyuk

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:25 PM

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#169 HKR AWAY DAYS

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:14 AM

As soon as the game ended I took to Twitter, I assume like many, to find many negative messages from people involved with the sport. To others, it may come across that if the sport's representatives are saying that it is embarrassing, why should they take the time to indulge in the game's international scene.

I know the scoreline isn't ideal but it was going to go one of two ways: England win convincingly as they did and people slate the international game; or, Wales put in a good show and people slate England.

Big scorelines happen in all sports; Widnes were on the end of some this season, San Marino are often trounced in the football qualifers, New England smashed St Louis at Wembley etc.

Why are we not saying, 'well played England on a big win' and 'commiserations Wales, keep growing and developing, don't be too downbeat, and good luck'?

#170 Keith T

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:38 PM

In everything we do in life there is good - bad; right - wrong, positive - negative, black - white, etc, and sport is just one of those aspects of life. If the politically correct people have their way all we would hear is the good, the positive, etc, but any coach will tell you that it is the bad or the negatives that they want players to concentrate on if they want to be better players, i.e. practice your weaker points rather than what you are good at.

It's the same with comments on matches if everyone only made positive comments then the powers that be think that they are doing everything correctly and nothing would change. The old saying of "if you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got" couldn't be truer. If some people are not impressed with what they saw at a match then they are just as entitled to say so as those with the opposite view. It doesn't mean either is correct but at least it shows that some people can see perceived faults at times that may need correcting.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#171 Ant

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:28 PM

But the negative comments NEVER add anything

If we listened to them we'd be playing RU

#172 Dave T

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:01 PM

In everything we do in life there is good - bad; right - wrong, positive - negative, black - white, etc, and sport is just one of those aspects of life. If the politically correct people have their way all we would hear is the good, the positive, etc, but any coach will tell you that it is the bad or the negatives that they want players to concentrate on if they want to be better players, i.e. practice your weaker points rather than what you are good at.

It's the same with comments on matches if everyone only made positive comments then the powers that be think that they are doing everything correctly and nothing would change. The old saying of "if you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got" couldn't be truer. If some people are not impressed with what they saw at a match then they are just as entitled to say so as those with the opposite view. It doesn't mean either is correct but at least it shows that some people can see perceived faults at times that may need correcting.

The problem we have is that 'The Enemy Within' as I like to call them often take great pleasure, going out of their way to slate the game they supposedly support.
Often it is just general criticism, rather than specific things which need discussing.
If people are so disillusioned and unhappy with the game, then I genuinely think the game would be better off without them, as rather some people feel the need to shout to anyone who will listen how bad the game is, often with the words 'farce, joke etc' included.
Why would a RL journalist for example feel the need to use an NFL event he is at at Wembley to criticise a RL event?
There appears to be an addiction by some people who are supposedly supporters of the game to criticise it as publicly as possible as often as possible.

#173 nadera78

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

The problem we have is that 'The Enemy Within' as I like to call them often take great pleasure, going out of their way to slate the game they supposedly support.
Often it is just general criticism, rather than specific things which need discussing.
If people are so disillusioned and unhappy with the game, then I genuinely think the game would be better off without them, as rather some people feel the need to shout to anyone who will listen how bad the game is, often with the words 'farce, joke etc' included.
Why would a RL journalist for example feel the need to use an NFL event he is at at Wembley to criticise a RL event?
There appears to be an addiction by some people who are supposedly supporters of the game to criticise it as publicly as possible as often as possible.


Exactly right. There are people involved in the game, and even worse who make their living off the back of it, who take great pride in doing it down at every opportunity. It's amazing that RL is still going given the opposition to it.
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#174 HKR AWAY DAYS

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

Similar article in the Guardian
http://www.guardian....es-rugby-league


In response to some extracts I've taken from this article (I'm bored at work):

The Rugby Football League has been working to provide more meaningful competition in the northern hemisphere for more than a decade, and the controversial inclusion of the Celtic Crusaders in an expanded Super League back in 2009 was a determined attempt to revive the Wales national team. But this was a depressing indication of how far there is to go.


Why is it depressing? This can only be Andy Wilson's opinion but to me if means that we can now genuinly appraise the Welsh after their 4 and 3Nations tournament inclusions.

In doing so, Wales can then map out a plan of action heading into next year's world cup and for the immediate future. Who is to say that they won't be beating France, for instance, regularly in 4/5 years time? With time to build, on the back of two Championship clubs who are bringing through young Welsh lads and the experience of the world cup, it could act as a springboard for them.

For me that is a positive, not depressing.

The outgunned underdogs, only one of whom – the captain Craig Kopczak – would be an automatic choice at a Super League club, gave their all, and when the Castleford forward Dan Fleming shrugged off Gareth Hock for their second try early in the second half, a scoreline of 12-32 was reasonably respectable. But conceding eight tries in little more than half an hour was downright embarrassing, both for Wales and international rugby league.


Andy's first point is fair enough, but isn't changing that stat something to aspire to? The more Welsh players that come through, the more chance we have of seeing them play regular Super League and in turn we may see an improved Welsh national team.

Some people within the game will look at the scoreline and see it as an embarrassment. It wasn't ideal but as I've said in other threads, a big win was expected for England. However, big scores happen in all sports and yet they still go out there a week later and give it another go. Obviously we want to showcase our very best, but we must recognise that people outside of the RL fraternity will come across our worst as well, just like football, Union, cricket etc.

But the greatest lesson from this tournament, as well as the need to give Wales and France every possible further assistance over the next 12 months, may well be the need to continue arranging mid-season matches for England against the Exiles team drawn from the overseas players employed in the Super League.


Yes, let's continue with that and hopefully it'll prove to be very worthwhile. For Wales, get them in a tournament with France, Scotland, Ireland and the Knights so that we have regular competitive matches to help improve standards and intensity. Something like that.

#175 Johnoco

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:01 PM

Whilst its hard to draw any comfort from the scoreline, what exactly were some people expecting? That the Welsh team had been hiding a load of world class players somewhere?

Why the surprise? Has there ever been a time when Wales has produced top class Rugby *League* players? So its obvious that they have had to start at the bottom but they shouldn't give up because if they stick at it they will get somewhere.

What would the score have been in say, 1992, in an England-Wales game......featuring only RL players and not union converts? Assuming they could field a side, I bet it would be possibly a larger score.

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#176 John Rhino

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:12 PM

softly softly catchy monkee http://www.walesrugb...ge-of-centre-is


Excellent, that's the way to go.

I saw Iestyn harris mention a C of E on Deeside but google came up with nothing so thanks for posting that. it needs its own website (or have I missed something?)

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#177 JohnM

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:29 PM

Two tweets from George Riley

1. Still feeling ropey so no rugby league today :( I am however finding fans watching on tv & slagging off the crowd a little rich.)
2. England could put 70 on Wales here. Really hope I'm wrong. Can't see the benefit of this fixture or series really. And I love the game.

At least the fans didn't slag off the whole series, eh , George?

#178 keighley

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:25 PM

One could take the view that England have quite a few top class prospects coming through and are greatly improving and this should give their fans hope for challenging the Australians and New Zealanders next year.

One could also take the view that France are improving due to the emergence of some quality players at the Catalans.

One could also take the view that Wales were unfortunate to meet these two teams when they were on the up and when Wales did not have their full strength line up available.

If England destroy France like they did Wales,we will know if that theory re England is correct.

#179 petero

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:07 PM

One could take the view that England have quite a few top class prospects coming through and are greatly improving and this should give their fans hope for challenging the Australians and New Zealanders next year.

One could also take the view that France are improving due to the emergence of some quality players at the Catalans.

One could also take the view that Wales were unfortunate to meet these two teams when they were on the up and when Wales did not have their full strength line up available.

If England destroy France like they did Wales,we will know if that theory re England is correct.



Your opening sentence could be taken as predictable, that is without regarding any thought to the quality of the opposition. Sadly I do not believe that any such hopes as you mention can be laid down following this showing from England by what I honestly believe would have had 40 or 50 points put on it by the two S/Hemi premier Nations.

I am not denigrating R/L, on the contrary, matches of this nature are as has been said applicable to any sport, especially R/U. The score on Saturday has been dwarfed in all of their recent W/cup tournaments, with scores of 150+ recorded, this also in a game where tries are often as rare as rocking horse sh**. So for anyone to judge R/L as being too one sided at times, who has a leaning towards the other form of rugby as a manner to put our game down, is more than a little rich, however back to point in question.

I too love R/L I do not have any interest in other sport's at all but! Matches of Saturday's nature are not ever a good advertisment for ANY form of sport, no matter which it be.
As I said previously, that England side would have been crucified by any Aussie side and any Kiwi side in the right frame of mind. Our half backs, one who is not at all good enough for the rep game and the other who has been tested so often at the top level only to flatter to deceive on so many occasions, would if matched against the Aussies or Kiwi's last week have looked like ducks out of water.

The centre's would have been crucified in defence and their wingers would not have got a try scoring chance possibly from either of them.

That England side did after 60 minutes flow like the wind when the amateurs and part time opposition was knackered, no disrespect intended there either, as I thought that they gave of their very best which unfortunately was never going to be adequete enough, let alone good enough.

Although I want to see the rep game get better and improve and yes I realise that there does require more games to be staged for the good of the international game to flourish, I cannot help but think that mismatches of this nature do not improve the standards of the vanquished one bit, not when the same thing is expected and then duly occurs upon an annual basis.

Gil Dudson gave a succint reply following the game when he admitted that from the start the Welsh knew they were on an hiding to nothing, gave their very best, but the gap between the standards that the respective sides play at was never going to result in any other way than it did. I thought that he put it very accurately and offered no excuses at all.

#180 Scubby

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:12 PM

Your opening sentence could be taken as predictable, that is without regarding any thought to the quality of the opposition. Sadly I do not believe that any such hopes as you mention can be laid down following this showing from England by what I honestly believe would have had 40 or 50 points put on it by the two S/Hemi premier Nations.

England beat NZ 28-6 last time they met. HTH




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