29 replies to this topic

[dhw]

Are we as far away from Australia than in 2002 after the mid season thrashing? At that point many Aussies had or were about to give up on the international game. Luckily Wayne Bennett disagreed.

I take your point about the 2002 test, but that was a one-off test with an ill-preapred squad. As recently as the last world cup England suffered a record defaeat to Australia with several weeks preparation.
The 2003 Ashes had losing margins of 4, 3 and 6 points with the first test test playing 80 minutes with 12 players. When was the last time England/GB played 3 test against Australia that were so close ? The answer is that has not happened since the 2003 ashses and the scorelines have consistently been much greater which would suggest at best England are no closer to Australia currently. The last 3 four nations tournaments only one game was lost by less than 20 points that is a big difference to losing 3 consecutive matches each by just 1 converted try.

What appears to have improved is that England are better placed in terms of injury cover.

[Johnoco]

I agree the 2003 series was good, if gutting. But my point is that nobody at the time said 'that was a very good series lads, good effort' all that happened was it was declared that we would never beat them so we should sack it.

In fact, it was more a case of 'if you can't beat that team, (ie implying they were a poor side) you may as well go home.'. ie typical RL reaction.

[Kent Roughyed]

IIRC, the 2003 Kangaroos side was severely depleted and was, in effect, a Kangaroos Second String side formed around Darren Lockyer. And we still couldn't beat them!

[Futtocks]

I agree the 2003 series was good, if gutting. But my point is that nobody at the time said 'that was a very good series lads, good effort' all that happened was it was declared that we would never beat them so we should sack it.

In fact, it was more a case of 'if you can't beat that team, (ie implying they were a poor side) you may as well go home.'. ie typical RL reaction.

Exactly - a whole lot of gloomy satisfaction all over this forum at the time. "I told you we'd fail" or "This is it for International RL" and "We used to win at least one Test in a series, but this was a whitewash" and suchlike comments.

What had actually happened is that although we'd come up short in each match, it was desperately close and the Australians knew it. The England Football team would have envied us getting so close to a trophy.

[Dave T]

IIRC, the 2003 Kangaroos side was severely depleted and was, in effect, a Kangaroos Second String side formed around Darren Lockyer. And we still couldn't beat them!

These were the teams for the three tests:

1st Test -AUSTRALIA: Darren Lockyer ©, Shannon Hegarty, Craig Wing, Phil Bailey, Anthony Minichiello, Craig Gower, Brett Kimmorley, Shane Webcke, Danny Buderus,Robbie Kearns, Steve Simpson, Craig Fitzgibbon, Luke Ricketson. Rep: Petero Civoniceva, Willie Mason, Trent Waterhouse, Michael Crocker.

2nd Test -AUSTRALIA: Darren Lockyer ©, Anthony Minichiello, Craig Wing, Michael De Vere, Matt Sing, Craig Gower, Brett Kimmorley, Shane Webcke, Danny Buderus,Robbie Kearns, Steve Simpson, Craig Fitzgibbon, Luke Ricketson. Rep: Petero Civoniceva, Willie Mason, Trent Waterhouse, Michael Crocker.

3rd Test - AUSTRALIA: Darren Lockyer ©, Anthony Minichiello, Craig Wing, Michael De Vere, Matt Sing, Michael Crocker, Brett Kimmorley, Shane Webcke, Danny Buderus,Robbie Kearns, Steve Simpson, Craig Fitzgibbon, Luke Ricketson. Rep: Petero Civoniceva, Willie Mason, Trent Waterhouse, Darren Smith.

Is that a 2nd string team?

[Futtocks]

2003 TOURING SQUAD

• Phil Bailey
• Danny Buderus
• Petero Civoniceva
• Joel Clinton
• Michael Crocker
• Michael De Vere
• Craig Fitzgibbon
• Ryan Girdler
• Craig Gower
• Shannon Hegarty
• Robbie Kearns
• Brett Kimmorley
• Luke Lewis
• Darren Lockyer ©
• Willie Mason
• Anthony Minichiello
• Luke Ricketson
• Steve Simpson
• Matt Sing
• Darren Smith
• Richard Villasanti
• Trent Waterhouse
• Shane Webcke
• Craig Wing

[Johnoco]

So, as I thought, a right bunch of no hopers.

[Kent Roughyed]

On first glance, there was no Andrew Johns, Nathan Hindmarsh, Gordon Tallis (recently retired), Wendall Sailor, Jamie Lyon or Lote Tuquiri.

I don't think Shannon Heggarty, Craig Wing, Phil Bailey, Steve Simpson or Luke Ricketson were in this class?

[dhw]

On first glance, there was no Andrew Johns, Nathan Hindmarsh, Gordon Tallis (recently retired), Wendall Sailor, Jamie Lyon or Lote Tuquiri.

I don't think Shannon Heggarty, Craig Wing, Phil Bailey, Steve Simpson or Luke Ricketson were in this class?

Andrew Johns has a habit of not being available for internationals (he has missed more than 50% of internationals). Tallis as you mentioned retired so he could not be considered as first choice. Wendall Sailor and Tuquiri because they were contracted to the ARU, Hindmarsh was only became an automatic pick for the Kangaroos in 2004, up until the 2003 series just how many appearances had Lyon made for the the Kangaroos ? Of those you listed only Johns was a current automatic pick.

If that squad played england in a 3 test series today it is like the England team would lose at least 2 of the 3 tests and by noticeably heavier margins.

[Johnoco]

That's all supposing though. We don't know what would have happened this year because the Aussies couldn't be arsed.