53 replies to this topic

[Viking Warrior]

Are you trying to say that the French haven't improved?
Was you expecting them to be world beaters with only a handful of starting SL players, another handful of fringe SL players, and a final handful of part time players?

the freanch are as poor as they were pre 2005, the whole point put forward by all the experts on this forum was that a french super league team would make the national team more competetive! clearly hasn't worked has it wellsey...........................all catalans have done is to provide a rest home for antipodeans and they even bent the rules to get ben fisher over there on "loan" from batley.

Edited by Viking Warrior, 04 November 2012 - 11:31 PM.

[slowdive]

the freanch are as poor as they were pre 2005, the whole point put forward by all the experts on this forum was that a french super league team would make the national team more competetive! clearly hasn't worked has it wellsey...........................all catalans have done is to provide a rest home for antipodeans and they even bent the rules to get ben fisher over there on "loan" from batley.

I don't think that's right at all. The French have produced some decent RL players in the last few years. If there hadn't been a French SL side I think the French game would be far far weaker.
I think some of the top players like Ferriol are retiring though and they seem to have struggled to bring through the next generation of players. Another team would give more players a chance.
France will continue to struggle internationally until it has a larger pool of players playing professionally at the top level, but it's not going to happen overnight.

[JohnM]

10 - 15 years ago the game in France was moribund, non-existent almost, key players moving to union in droves and it is a tribute to lovers of the game everywhere that it is still alive and indeed growing and improving. In my opinion, Catalans have played a key role in increasing the profile of the game amongst believers and non believers alike.

[dhw]

10 - 15 years ago the game in France was moribund, non-existent almost, key players moving to union in droves and it is a tribute to lovers of the game everywhere that it is still alive and indeed growing and improving. In my opinion, Catalans have played a key role in increasing the profile of the game amongst believers and non believers alike.

Would agree with the increasing of the profile of RL though it has had little impact on the French team in terms of results. France in autumn internationals have looked sloppy and made too many mistakes and there is a question mark over the standard of coaching in France. Improving that would arguably have a bigger impact than more French SL clubs.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

the freanch are as poor as they were pre 2005,

I disagree.

the whole point put forward by all the experts on this forum was that a french super league team would make the national team more competetive! clearly hasn't worked has it wellsey...........................

It wasn't "the whole point" at all. It was just one point.
I love it when people try and dismiss things by over exaggerating the reasons behind it, like "the whole point if franchising was to stop clubs going bust/increase crowds/produce youngsters/cure cancel/feed the poor..."

What about increase RL's profile in France? Increase sponsorship? Improve crowd averages? Increase the playing pool? I could go on...

all catalans have done is to provide a rest home for antipodeans and they even bent the rules to get ben fisher over there on "loan" from batley.

Didn't Widnes start with about 11 overseas players this season?
I've counted 8 so far in Catalans, and one Englishman.

Keep trying...

[Red Willow]

Personally I would rather see a player such as Theo Fages come through. He is 19 now and should be involved.

From the outside it seems the French game has too many "personalities" involved which has led to a tribal mentality. I have heard some players refusing to play for teams because of this.

[Futtocks]

There is also their new beIN TV deal, which will not have had time to really take effect yet. This is exposure they couldn't have dreamed of 10-15 years ago, and will only improve things for the game in France.

[slowdive]

Personally I would rather see a player such as Theo Fages come through. He is 19 now and should be involved.

From the outside it seems the French game has too many "personalities" involved which has led to a tribal mentality. I have heard some players refusing to play for teams because of this.

One of the reasons surely behind the success of RL in NZ is the number of players who go to Australia at a fairly young age. It's a well trodden path for Kiwis though of course which makes it easier.
Is it just a cultural difference which is stopping more French players like Fages from coming over?

[Viking Warrior]

I disagree.


It wasn't "the whole point" at all. It was just one point.
I love it when people try and dismiss things by over exaggerating the reasons behind it, like "the whole point if franchising was to stop clubs going bust/increase crowds/produce youngsters/cure cancel/feed the poor..."

What about increase RL's profile in France? Increase sponsorship? Improve crowd averages? Increase the playing pool? I could go on...



Didn't Widnes start with about 11 overseas players this season?
I've counted 8 so far in Catalans, and one Englishman.

Keep trying...

our overseas players like quite a few other super league teams were boosted by the crusaders players who were temporarily taken off the quota to facillitate their being able to get paid basically. now for next season widnes have so far signed 3 new players surprise surprise all english! can hull say the same?? so that part of your argument is flawed,

as for the french national team yes they are as poor as they were in 2005 just look at the latest thrashing by a below average england team!

most of the bleating about french teams being in super league, centred on the fact that it would make the national team more competetive surprise surprise it hasn't happened.

[keighley]

our overseas players like quite a few other super league teams were boosted by the crusaders players who were temporarily taken off the quota to facillitate their being able to get paid basically. now for next season widnes have so far signed 3 new players surprise surprise all english! can hull say the same?? so that part of your argument is flawed,

as for the french national team yes they are as poor as they were in 2005 just look at the latest thrashing by a below average england team!

most of the bleating about french teams being in super league, centred on the fact that it would make the national team more competetive surprise surprise it hasn't happened.

Don't you think that score flattered England. There was a last minute interecption which took the score over 40 and they had a couple of players taken off injured, which must have disrupted them.

England are still in ther top three in the world. I don't think anyone thinks France are at that level. they beat Wales handily and were a lot better against England than Wales were.

In the last WC they finished bottom and didn't get out of their group. I expect their hoem games next year to be seelouts and that they will advance to the quarter finals at least.

Give them some time. Their game ws almost extinct just a few years ago. Don't forget they have been in two world cup finals and beaten Australia in a test series in Aus so the talent is there. They just need to stop the exodus to Union and satbilise and theuy will improve.

[Railway End]

I just can't see a reason now why Toulouse shouldn't be in super league. Another 10 potential French full time players and the England score line is reduced by 15 points at least. Put it in France and we may have a test match.
I love how super league clubs are taking the best welsh kids on board now, if it continues and we have a Toulouse in super league then what a tri nations we could have on the BBC.

Where are the the 25 French players who are good enough to play SL going to come from? Don't forget when Toulouse were in CC they were often thrashed by the likes of Fev, Halifax and Leigh.

[barrowraiderskid]

Where are the the 25 French players who are good enough to play SL going to come from? Don't forget when Toulouse were in CC they were often thrashed by the likes of Fev, Halifax and Leigh.

This is the question we'll never get a proper answer too. If Tolouse got put in SL they'd be getting hammered every single week and half the squad would be Aussies. If their is enough french players for a second pro club then they should be able to compete at CC level comfortably but they can't. Also if there was an overflow of french players at SL level then Catalans wouldn't have to fork out for people who arnt french such as Webb and Pryce ect. People say you need a second pro club to stop people going to Union ect but I don't see why. They'll just be watching there team get hammered every week which no one wants to watch. You can produce players of SL quality without having a club there. See how many Cumbrians are in SL sides academies at the moment. If there is talent in france too fund another SL club I don't see why Catalans arnt taking advantage of it.

[Lobbygobbler]

This is the question we'll never get a proper answer too. If Tolouse got put in SL they'd be getting hammered every single week and half the squad would be Aussies. If their is enough french players for a second pro club then they should be able to compete at CC level comfortably but they can't. Also if there was an overflow of french players at SL level then Catalans wouldn't have to fork out for people who arnt french such as Webb and Pryce ect. People say you need a second pro club to stop people going to Union ect but I don't see why. They'll just be watching there team get hammered every week which no one wants to watch. You can produce players of SL quality without having a club there. See how many Cumbrians are in SL sides academies at the moment. If there is talent in france too fund another SL club I don't see why Catalans arnt taking advantage of it.

The extra French SL team creates an avenue for another say 15 pro French players, who would either be lost to RU or stay part time. They wont go to the UK in general unlike Kiwis who go to Aus. The people who run Les Cats wont run the risk of an all French team due to the same club first mentality that all SL clubs have.

Toulouse could be a v strong club in SL and would easily attract a couple of marquee overseas players

[Viking Warrior]

but lobby it wouldn't!! i watched a toulouse team loaded with fourth rate antipodeans get hammered week in week out in the CC, so where would the players suddenly emerge from???? like most on here when talking about more french teams in super league you are living in cloud cuckoo land........................

[barrowraiderskid]

The extra French SL team creates an avenue for another say 15 pro French players, who would either be lost to RU or stay part time. They wont go to the UK in general unlike Kiwis who go to Aus. The people who run Les Cats wont run the risk of an all French team due to the same club first mentality that all SL clubs have.

Toulouse could be a v strong club in SL and would easily attract a couple of marquee overseas players

That's like saying putting a random team from Northampton or something will produce 15 new pro players from northampton not playing RU. Will it work in SL? No.
The french players won't be of a good enough quality or they'd be playing a minimum of championship level at least. If you can name 15 more SL level standard french players then a french club will be necessary. The way france will have to expand is the current SL clubs making an effort to get french players into their system especially Catalans and when there is an overflow of french players then one will needed. They do need to do the same thing as other clubs to be sustainable in SL also, you can't just put them on 2k crowds and expect them to survive fair enough a french tv deal will help but even with that they would need some sort of business plan which involves developing french players and bringing in enough revenue to survive otherwise its pointless.

But the main point is they couldn't get a team, name the side they would field next year and how they could afford it?

Edited by barrowraiderskid, 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM.

[Viking Warrior]

behave yourself lad, some on here are living in fairy tale land where enough players to fill two french super league teams will suddenly appear by magic. your post was just too logical for them to comprehend........................

[Scubby]

behave yourself lad, some on here are living in fairy tale land where enough players to fill two french super league teams will suddenly appear by magic. your post was just too logical for them to comprehend........................

Off the top of my head these players are not contracted to Catalans and have around 250 SL games between them. They also have not played for Toulouse in the Championship - Cyril Gossard, Frederick Vaccari, Matthieu Griffi, Kane Bentley, Seb Raguin, Tony Gigot, Dmitri Pelo, David Gaush, Seb Martins, Remi Marginet. I don't know that much about France but I am sure they can muster up SL quality players. Within a couple of years plenty of juniors will be knocking on the door.

[Viking Warrior]

so why are they not still with super league clubs? could it be that they are not good enough???

[Scubby]

so why are they not still with super league clubs? could it be that they are not good enough???

Because French players will not travel to the UK - it is a cultural thing. That is why we need another SL club in France. In NZ, more players are moving to play for Aussie clubs than stay and play for the Warriors. That is why NZ have a strong side.

This will never happen with French players. Catalans can pick and choose who they give a contract to - they are spoilt. There are plenty of players on the fringes at Catalans who would flourish at another French SL club. Take Crusaders, they are no more but they likes of Kear, Flower, Dudson, White, Lloyd are now playing with SL clubs - none of them were playing any level of RL 3-4 years ago. France is not some experiment - it is a RL heartland. Give young players an opportunity to play at the top level and they will come off the production line.

[slowdive]

behave yourself lad, some on here are living in fairy tale land where enough players to fill two french super league teams will suddenly appear by magic. your post was just too logical for them to comprehend........................

Really? I'm not sure I've seen evidence of too much logic in your argument to be honest. The south of France has a long history and tradition of Rugby League. We all know the problems that existed with the Vichy Government etc. Despite extreme prejudice Rugby League continues to be popular in some areas. What they lack and have been lacking are opportunities for players to play the game professionally - make a living out of it.
There is a wealth of academic evidence which demonstrates that offering professional opportunities for players will lead to an increase in the numbers and quality of player in the French game.
The more opportunities available the more likely players will stick with or try out RL as opposed to RU or any other sport or career for that matter.