225 replies to this topic

[gingerjon]

The BBC report mentions about his dark windows. Having a full report from the court would be better.
We dont know if the dark windows caused any problem. We dont know how close to the parked car was the cyclist.

Yes, we must always find excuses for the driver.

[JohnM]

From Court News "Illegal immigrant Kenan Aydogdu, 32, opened the door of his parked Audi A8 into the path of Sam Harding, 25, as he biked down Holloway Road, north London."

see http://www.courtnewsuk.co.uk/

To balance things out, Lorry damaged by thoughtless cyclist

Edited by JohnM, 16 December 2012 - 06:09 PM.

[Severus]

I am not saying the person in the car is not to blame. But why was the bike rider so close to the parked car?

You're kidding me aren't you? When cyclists cycle in the middle of the lane we get moaned at. When cyclists cycle to the left of the lane this happens.

[Old Frightful]

I fail to see how relevant the proximity of a cyclist to a parked car is. Car doors don't open on their own. People who should check that nothing is going past open them. If they don't, they shouldn't be in the responsible position of being a car driver.

[guess who]

When people are learning to drive a car or motorbike. They are taught not to drive to close to a parked car. The reason is if any one opens a door you will hit it. In fact if you drive to close to parked cars, on a driving test, they fail for it.

If this cyclist had have been moor than a door length away he would have been safe.

Every person has to take reasonable action to keep themselves safe.

[Severus]

When people are learning to drive a car or motorbike. They are taught not to drive to close to a parked car. The reason is if any one opens a door you will hit it. In fact if you drive to close to parked cars, on a driving test, they fail for it.

If this cyclist had have been moor than a door length away he would have been safe.

Every person has to take reasonable action to keep themselves safe.

Totally agree. However, when cyclists do ride so that they aren't in danger from being doored we get all manner of grief from car drivers. I have been doored before (a passenger tried to get out in stationary traffic) and it is the worst because there are no warning signs.

[JohnM]

When people are learning to drive a car or motorbike. They are taught not to drive to close to a parked car. The reason is if any one opens a door you will hit it. In fact if you drive to close to parked cars, on a driving test, they fail for it.

If this cyclist had have been moor than a door length away he would have been safe.

Every person has to take reasonable action to keep themselves safe.

But as you quite rightly pointed you, you are ignorant of the facts.

[guess who]

But as you quite rightly pointed you, you are ignorant of the facts.

Actually i am not. It was on the radio yesterday. The dad of the lad killed was talking.

Car was legally parked in a car parking lane. Lad on bike was riding in a cycle/bus lane. Door was opened hitting the bike on the side. This knocked the lad of into the path of the bus.

Questions need to be asked.
Why was a bus and bike having to share the same lane. There should be a bike lane and a bus lane.
Why was he so close to a parked car. Was this because of the poor lay out of the lane. Was this because the bus was to close to him. Was this because he wasn't taking enough care.
Why did the door open. The car driver said he did look but didn't see him. No one can say he didn't as no cameras on the road could see the drivers head.
Maybe the driver didnt look.

The roads in this country were never built to have cars/buses,HGV and bikes all sharing the same space.

The design of some bike lanes is shameful.

[JohnM]

Actually i am not. It was on the radio yesterday. The dad of the lad killed was talking.

Car was legally parked in a car parking lane. Lad on bike was riding in a cycle/bus lane. Door was opened hitting the bike on the side. This knocked the lad of into the path of the bus.

Questions need to be asked.
Why was a bus and bike having to share the same lane. There should be a bike lane and a bus lane.
Why was he so close to a parked car. Was this because of the poor lay out of the lane. Was this because the bus was to close to him. Was this because he wasn't taking enough care.
Why did the door open. The car driver said he did look but didn't see him. No one can say he didn't as no cameras on the road could see the drivers head.
Maybe the driver didnt look.

The roads in this country were never built to have cars/buses,HGV and bikes all sharing the same space.

The design of some bike lanes is shameful.

More evidence of the need for the introduction of strict liability. The cyclist was legally in the cycle lane. The car driver was illegally in this country. The cyclist is dead. The driver is still here. but hey, lets blame the cyclist. How far away from the car should he have been?. Of course, no one could say the driver did or didn't look , either through his illegally blacked out windows or not.

London Assembly Green Party member Jenny Jones said the Metropolitan Police had issued an average of seven to nine fixed penalty notices per year for "car dooring" in the past seven years. "Cyclists being killed or seriously injured by drivers opening their car doors is remarkably common, yet it has received very little attention from the police or the mayor," she said.


From here: http://ukcyclerules....s-of-car-doors/
It turns out that it’s an offence to open “any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person”. If you’re cycling along and someone opens a car door in your path, they may commit this offence (and be liable to a fine of up to £1000). (RVCUR r. 105; RTA s. 42; RTOA Sch 2)
There are a few details which are worth bearing in mind:

• There doesn’t have to be a crash for the offence to be committed – it’s an offence toinjure someone who is riding past by opening a car door, but it’s also an offence simply toendanger them (for example if they have to swerve to avoid a crash).
• The offence isn’t limited to drivers - so a passenger who opens a car door so as to injure or endanger a cyclist could commit the offence.
• It also isn’t limited to cars, but seems to apply to any vehicle which is on a road and which has a door.

[guess who]

More evidence of the need for the introduction of strict liability. The cyclist was legally in the cycle lane. The car driver was illegally in this country. The cyclist is dead. The driver is still here. but hey, lets blame the cyclist. How far away from the car should he have been?. Of course, no one could say the driver did or didn't look , either through his illegally blacked out windows or not.

John even you are not sure who is to blame as you bit that i have put in bold shows.
Much more things need to be looked at than just one thing.

The only trouble is, you cannot except that.

[JohnM]

The father of the cyclist who was killed also said this. Mr Harding, 56, said there was a “gap in the law” about “car dooring”. The Met said of the 427 cases since 2006, that only 52 fixed penalty notices, with a maximum fine of £1,000, were issued. Mr Harding, 56, an English language teacher trainer, said: “The only charge the police could bring against Aydogdu was manslaughter. Other than that, it was a fixed penalty notice, the equivalent of being caught speaking on your mobile. It is a legal lacuna — a massive gap in the law which doesn’t cater for the criminal behaviour that led to my son’s death.”

I am absolutely sure who is to blame. I have no doubts whatsoever. However, we live in a society where metal might is right.

[guess who]

The father of the cyclist who was killed also said this. Mr Harding, 56, said there was a “gap in the law” about “car dooring”. The Met said of the 427 cases since 2006, that only 52 fixed penalty notices, with a maximum fine of £1,000, were issued. Mr Harding, 56, an English language teacher trainer, said: “The only charge the police could bring against Aydogdu was manslaughter. Other than that, it was a fixed penalty notice, the equivalent of being caught speaking on your mobile. It is a legal lacuna — a massive gap in the law which doesn’t cater for the criminal behaviour that led to my son’s death.”

I am absolutely sure who is to blame. I have no doubts whatsoever. However, we live in a society where metal might is right.

Looks like me writing this comment, Much more things need to be looked at than just one thing.

The only trouble is, you cannot except that. was right.

[Phil]

Having been "car doored" twice, once on my bike, which was painful for me, and once in my car which was painful for the other driver, its a no brainer, if you're about to open your door, particularly if you're the driver, have a damn good look before you do so. Its incumbent on you to do so.

[guess who]

Having been "car doored" twice, once on my bike, which was painful for me, and once in my car which was painful for the other driver, its a no brainer, if you're about to open your door, particularly if you're the driver, have a damn good look before you do so. Its incumbent on you to do so.

Phil i fully agree with you.
But can you please explain, why you were riding/driving so close to parked cars?

Edited by guess who, 18 December 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[JohnM]

You make a good point. It is incumbent upon all raod users to ensur ethat they do not put themselves in danger.
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.unless you are a car, van or lorry driver.

[Phil]

Phil i fully agree with you.
But can you please explain, why you were riding so close to parked cars?

Yes I can, I was riding down a very narrow but busy side street. I was aware that traffic would be coming towards me so I was riding on the left hand side of the road when a woman park at the side opened her door just as I was going past.

"Oh look at my car door" she shouted, my answer was short and to the point but she obviously wasn't bothered about my buckled wheel and grazed face.

[guess who]

Yes I can, I was riding down a very narrow but busy side street. I was aware that traffic would be coming towards me so I was riding on the left hand side of the road when a woman park at the side opened her door just as I was going past.

Phil was traffic coming, or were you over to the left just in case traffic came towards you?

[Phil]

Phil was traffic coming, or were you over to the left just in case traffic came towards you?

Just in case, the road is question is just wide enough for two average cars to pass each other.

[JohnM]

Phil, It's clearly your fault. I'd have thought that was obvious.

oh, just spotted this: Highway Code Rule 239: you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic

[Futtocks]

The trouble with cyclists' public image is that whenever there's a debate on the radio, the person who is there to represent the two-wheeled side of the argument always seems more interested in having a shouting match and making preposterous claims than actually addressing any criticism from listeners, however slight.

They could have got someone who would respond calmly and put his points across clearly. But getting in a shouty numpty makes for what broadcasters think is better radio than anything intelligent and civilised.

Edited by Futtocks, 18 December 2012 - 12:47 PM.