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Kevin Sinfield / Ian Millward's England XIII (Merged threads)

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#1 Trojan

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:53 PM

I watched a bit of the Wales - Argentina game yesterday, and noticed what a good goalkicker Lee Halfpenny was, then I watched England - France today. Sinfield was immaculate with his place kicking. I wonder if there was to be a contest between the top League and Union kickers who'd come out on top - assuming of course that you could set the parameters for such a contest.
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#2 steef

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:08 PM

I'd have my money on Sinny. You never think he'll miss, Botica was the last one like him.
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#3 1976PMJwires

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:18 PM

With all the penalties in union you'd expect a union kicker to come on tops.


But...... Kevin is the best kicker I've seen for a long time.

#4 philipw

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:39 PM

What Millward's XIII for the world cup was? They mentioned they would be discussing it on the red button, but I had recorded the game, so didn't get to see the post match bits!

#5 boxhead

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:57 PM

What Millward's XIII for the world cup was? They mentioned they would be discussing it on the red button, but I had recorded the game, so didn't get to see the post match bits!


edit

Edited by AndyCapp, 11 November 2012 - 08:59 PM.


#6 Railway End

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:28 PM

What Millward's XIII for the world cup was? They mentioned they would be discussing it on the red button, but I had recorded the game, so didn't get to see the post match bits!


Can't remember the full side but interestingly he had 6. Widdop, 7. Chase with no place for Sinfield in the 17. Noble has 6. Sinfield, 7. Chase with no place for Widdop in the 17.

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#7 trakl

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:34 PM

He had Briscoe instead of Charnley and Watkins and Reed in the centres - his pack, I think, was Sam B, Roby, Graham, Ellis, Hock, O'Loughlin...

#8 Keith T

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:38 PM

He had Briscoe instead of Charnley and Watkins and Reed in the centres - his pack, I think, was Sam B, Roby, Graham, Ellis, Hock, O'Loughlin...


He had Westwood and Ratchford on his bench as well. I thought it strange that Noble had Luke Burgess at 8 and no place for Sam Burgess!!!!

I remember when .............................

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#9 Trojan

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:46 PM

I'd like to see Westwood play against the Aussies. He's a big rough ###### and takes no prisoners.
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#10 T-Dub

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:02 PM

Sinny has never had any success in interna...
... oh, hang on

#11 Viking Warrior

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:09 PM

i have to hold my hands up, i have criticised sinfield for years an said he was not good enough to play international rugby, but as a captain he is faultless and has led england by example and i have to say that my view has changed dramatically after this years internationals. well done kevin you did ud proud...........
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#12 RSN

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:28 PM

Thurston is the best kicker in either code.

#13 ArmchairRhino

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:52 PM

Thurston is the best kicker in either code.


Don't know the % but Thurston's definitely the best to watch.
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#14 HappyDave

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:09 AM

Reminds me of the Jamie Soward vs a Rugby Union kicker from the Matty Johns Show on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1oPABOWcAg

Thurston is the best kicker in either code.


I'd say Thurston and Carter are probably equally matched put Sinfield is certainly a close contender to the 2 of them.

Edited by HappyDave, 12 November 2012 - 12:24 AM.

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#15 boxhead

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:28 AM

Thurstons 2012 percentage is 83%, Adam Reynolds had the best rate from the NRL kickers slightly higher than Thurston.
I thought Sinfields might be slightly better than that.

Edited by AndyCapp, 12 November 2012 - 04:35 AM.


#16 bearman

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:27 AM

He had Westwood and Ratchford on his bench as well. I thought it strange that Noble had Luke Burgess at 8 and no place for Sam Burgess!!!!


I thought I heard him say it should have been Sam, the caption was wrong.
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#17 petero

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:56 PM

I was struck by the choices made concerning the respective selections from Brian Noble and Ian Millward, over which players they believed should make-up the side for the opening game of the 2013 World cup competition, on the red-button addition to the coverage of the England France game yesterday..

What resonated most deeply with me was the Australian pragmatism to selection which was supplied by Millward, where much to the anchormans surprise, he omitted from his selection present captain, Kevin Sinfield!

Millward to his credit then opined his belief that despite and I use his words; that "Sinfield,without any doubt having proven himself one of, if not the finest yet, club player in S/L history so far, has not ever risen, V the best opposition, ie Oz and NZ, to anything like his unarguable peerless club level performances or dominance". I thought that took a bit of courage, especially so considering the adulation and hero worshipping that has surrounded KS in the most recent past.

I would disagree with his assessment concerning Chase, as I believe that each and every attribute that he accredited to that player is far better expounded by Rob Burrow, who playing as an impact player/super sub, is the closest we have produced to what Craig Wing in his heyday, was for the Aussies. Rob has proven devastating in the dual role when he covers either S/Half or the Hooking position and could be Englands best asset, late in any game when facing tiring opposition forwards.

Likewise I was dissappointed with Noble's selection over the Halves in so much as he slavishly followed the popular vote with his choice of Chase and Sinfield there, the easy and to be honest more English manner of selection and one we have all come to expect, if not accept.
Again Millward was more pragmatic with his emphasis on Widdop at S/Off and explained very profoundly why. Namely that the lad has established himself in the highest calibre competition in World R/L and more importantly in a position that has been our biggest headache since the day's of Tony Myler and Gary Schofield, we have not had an out and out S/Off since then and Widdop more than adequetly supplies the answer to that problem.

Noble claimed that he did not know if Widdop could prove to have a kicking game, it is a pity I feel that maybe he has probably not watched the NRL enough on P/sports? For the lad has displayed on the few occasions that it has proved neccasary for him to adopt a kicking role for his club, that he is more than capable of doing so. Presumably Noble is assuming that Sinfield will perform this duty, but, he has been afforded the job on so many occasions against this calibre of opposition and to date I personally cannot recall a game in which his open field-kicking game has been anything above mundane against either NZ or Oz.

My own belief is alway's to field the best players available and, whenever possible in their true and favourable positions and as I see it now with some emerging talent, with a good mix of seasoned pro's on the english scene we have, after almost a half century practically achieved once again, a genuine competition for places and consequently I maintain that if injuries permit we should place the ones who constitute our strongst, fastest and most able players on the field at each and every opportunity.

My own starting thirteen and four subs would therefore be,

Hardacre

Briscoe
Watkins
Reed
Hall

Widdop
TOMKINS

Graham ©
Roby
Crabtree
Burgess S
Ellis
O'Loughlin

Hill
Burgess L
Burrow
Westwood.

Tomkins is I realise an outrageous selection at S/H, but I believe that Hardacre is as good a defender, safer under a high ball and a more than decent support player in the F/B role, consequently both players should be on the field of play. I do not care a jot over whether this gives 'Sam' the link-up opportunities he supposedly thrives upon, because his competitive spirit alone will pose a danger to any other side given that he is there on the field. He is our most potent attacking player no matter which position he occupies and methods can be utilised to use his threat as the situations arise.

Likewise with Luke Burgess who has proven he can cope comfortably within S-Hemi playing conditions and practices and if good enough for that he is certainly qualified to represent his country also.
Crabtree has yet to have a poor game against any S/Hemi side and if fully fit and well I believe should be a starting prop. Widdop as well is a very accomplished goalkicker, not I agree as good as Sinfield in that department, but still a most reliable one at that. Finally Briscoe V Charnley. I prefer the latter on attack but do wonder if h is defensively strong enough, wheras Briscoe has proved in a good deal of games his defencive qualities and hopefully, Watkins will further improve his capabilities in this department also by next November as well?

#18 brooza

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:15 PM

i have to hold my hands up, i have criticised sinfield for years an said he was not good enough to play international rugby, but as a captain he is faultless and has led england by example and i have to say that my view has changed dramatically after this years internationals. well done kevin you did ud proud...........

I've said in one of the other threads before this series that Sinfield either needs to be out of the England squad or captain. He's not the best player, but as a leader, he's top

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#19 brooza

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:17 PM

I wonder if there was to be a contest between the top League and Union kickers who'd come out on top - assuming of course that you could set the parameters for such a contest.

Which shape ball would you use? Would they both use the same or both use their normal balls? And if they use their normal ones, do you factor in that the union balls are better shaped for kicking?

How about NFL kickers?

Edited by brooza, 12 November 2012 - 01:17 PM.

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#20 John Drake

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:23 PM

Merged a few threads together that seem to be discussing the same issue.

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