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Southern Conference 2013


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#41 Marauder

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

I think Skolars recruiting well at A team level and Hammersmith taking Aussies off other clubs may be factors? There may be local factors though wouldn't like to guess. South London Storm have always done well at junior level though

South Wales has hit a much worse hiatus but hopefully in both cases something good can come as a result of junior development and new clubs? The question is whether to focus on a handful of strong clubs or lots of little ones.

What I can't understand is the RFL have been reporting that thousands of kids have been playing the game in London since 2004 and probably before to my knowledge, where are these kids now.

In our area we are lucky to get 75 boys in one school age group and have to fight with 2 local junior football teams for their service.
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#42 Number 16

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

Wasnt there significant investment into the facillity there?

Yes, the RFL funded a 3G pitch. Next year there'll be a grass pitch alongside.

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#43 nadera78

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:31 AM

In that case whats good for tier 3 should also be good enough for tier4 and was it argued for or simply offered.

Day to day management within whos guidelines?

Regulatory, ha ha done deal simply because the NCL can't retain the players during the summer so the overspill championship players will make the numbers up (You've lost your amateur game)


Why are you so obsessed with professionals and amateurs? Given the history of our sport it really is a nonsense that people draw up such divisions.
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#44 bowes

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:13 PM

RFL grant aided non heartland activity for many years

The creation of a Tier 3 covering the whole of the UK gave the NCL the opportunity to argue that what was granted elsewhere should equally be granted to them. That argument was successful. The funding has been transitional and it has yet to be equalised , but that will happen if it continues.......

Tier 3 is a summer based concept . Any grants at this level ( the RFL are in serious cutback ) have yet to be negotiated....The South included . They well understand that. Let's see where we get......

The RFL no more control the NCL than they do SL. Or Barla for that matter. Everyone accepts overall governance , but day to day management is a different kettle of fish altogether.

And so to contracted players in the Community game. It's up for discussion on monday at Regulatory. Hope you have briefed your people Marauder......

But let me put this proposition.

If a scheme can be devised that means effectively 200 + players don't sign part time contracts in the first place and remain in the Community game , and a further 200 are available to the clubs within the Community game that are ' fringe ' semi - pro players anyway, thereby enhancing the player base at Tier 3 and top Tier 4 ,what are your philosophical issues ?

Or is it simply a case of massive mistrust in those put in charge of the process - probably the greatest failing of Barla in the last 20 years.....?

Interesting you mention them playing at tier 4. Personally I think pros playing at tier 4 would be a step too far but guess there's a difference between them playing in the Cumbria League or NW Men's premier and playing in a west midlands division

#45 del capo

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

Interesting you mention them playing at tier 4. Personally I think pros playing at tier 4 would be a step too far but guess there's a difference between them playing in the Cumbria League or NW Men's premier and playing in a west midlands division


I posted TOP Tier 4 i.e. Premier or Top Divisions only......

Marauder conveniently forgets that Barla allowed professionals - they were called ' Permit Players ' - for over 30 years at 2 per team ( not club ) regardless of that team's competition level ..... No-one ever claimed Barla had ' lost the amateur game ' by doing that ( though they may well have done since 2004 by not doing lots of other things .... :( )

The stuff being discussed at Regulatory ( Barla included ) is much more structured than that.

#46 tim2

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:39 PM

"Pro" players in SL academies are a different thing standards wise to someone who is playing for, say, Skolars and wants to be able to play for their "A" and First Teams interchangably. (i.e. there are differences in geography, level of "professionalism" etc.)

The rules need to potentially cover all cases. Not easy but as noted above, the gulf we have between amateur and professional needs to be closed - crazy when you think about how the sport started.
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#47 Marauder

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:34 PM

Why are you so obsessed with professionals and amateurs? Given the history of our sport it really is a nonsense that people draw up such divisions.

Not bothered about Pro's playing in the amateur game personally, It's the fact that Pro's will be getting the game time at amateur clubs while amateurs at that club and many more will have to sit the weekend out without a game.

Quick one!!! Is the role of the amateur club too provide a game for professionals who are not getting selected or to provide somewhere for rugby league players TO PLAY who can't make the grade?

Before anyone says the amateurs can filter downwards, where do the ones play that fall out of the bottom of the filter?
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#48 Marauder

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:40 PM

"Pro" players in SL academies are a different thing standards wise to someone who is playing for, say, Skolars and wants to be able to play for their "A" and First Teams interchangably. (i.e. there are differences in geography, level of "professionalism" etc.)

The rules need to potentially cover all cases. Not easy but as noted above, the gulf we have between amateur and professional needs to be closed - crazy when you think about how the sport started.

Example of a player in the Zone and then a few years later Tim, Dean Sampsons 1st game as a amateur saw him completely single handedly destroy the opposition, a few years later he played against the same teams 2nds and never looked out of place.
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#49 MidlandsRugbyLeague

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

Yes, the RFL funded a 3G pitch. Next year there'll be a grass pitch alongside.


Who's the best person to talk to about to learn about the club's experiences. We're doing a similar thing later next year and would be keen to hear some advice.

#50 bowes

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:04 AM

I posted TOP Tier 4 i.e. Premier or Top Divisions only......

Marauder conveniently forgets that Barla allowed professionals - they were called ' Permit Players ' - for over 30 years at 2 per team ( not club ) regardless of that team's competition level ..... No-one ever claimed Barla had ' lost the amateur game ' by doing that ( though they may well have done since 2004 by not doing lots of other things .... :( )

The stuff being discussed at Regulatory ( Barla included ) is much more structured than that.

Could see the gradual creation of an effective tier 3.5 IMO

#51 PhilCarrington

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

Beckenham could hit Greenwich as well who really struggled last year. A new Croydon team must be harmful as well. For Hammersmith to be the oldest amateur club in London would be a sad state of affairs.


Elmbridge have been going for a lot longer, even if they did change their name from Kingston.

Hopefully Souths will build up again, but there could be a weak London League below the Southern Conference next season (echoes of 1997!)

#52 bowes

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:13 AM

Elmbridge have been going for a lot longer, even if they did change their name from Kingston.

Hopefully Souths will build up again, but there could be a weak London League below the Southern Conference next season (echoes of 1997!)

I was thinking of Elmbridge as outside London but yes a very long history there. Expect they'll be back in the South East for now?

#53 bulldog_paddy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:08 PM

are greenwich still going at a senior level?

#54 bowes

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

are greenwich still going at a senior level?

They struggled last year and a new club is setting up nearby. Hope they get through it though

#55 Stag Fan

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

Yes, the RFL funded a 3G pitch. Next year there'll be a grass pitch alongside.


Didn't the RFL part fund it to the tune of £250,000, I think the overall cost was £650,00 I'm sure I read somewhere. ( happy to be put right on the figures)
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#56 Pottsy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

Not bothered about Pro's playing in the amateur game personally, It's the fact that Pro's will be getting the game time at amateur clubs while amateurs at that club and many more will have to sit the weekend out without a game.

Quick one!!! Is the role of the amateur club too provide a game for professionals who are not getting selected or to provide somewhere for rugby league players TO PLAY who can't make the grade?

Before anyone says the amateurs can filter downwards, where do the ones play that fall out of the bottom of the filter?


I think you may have mentioned 'once or twice' that plenty of amateur fixtures have to be cancelled.

That doesn't suggest that anyone is going to struggle to get a game. It's not like you've a habit of contradicted yourself.

#57 Marauder

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

I think you may have mentioned 'once or twice' that plenty of amateur fixtures have to be cancelled.

That doesn't suggest that anyone is going to struggle to get a game. It's not like you've a habit of contradicted yourself.


Do you honestly believe players who have been pushed out are going to hang around waiting.

How have I contradicted myself ?

Edited by Marauder, 23 November 2012 - 08:08 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#58 Marauder

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:20 PM

I posted TOP Tier 4 i.e. Premier or Top Divisions only......

Marauder conveniently forgets that Barla DID allowed professionals - they were called ' Permit Players ' - for over 30 years at 2 per team ( not club ) regardless of that team's competition level ..... No-one ever claimed Barla had ' lost the amateur game ' by doing that BARLA did stop permit players after the RFL undermined & overruled a disciplinary set by BARLA on a permit player, ( though they may well have done since 2004 by not doing lots of other things .... :( )

The stuff being discussed at Regulatory ( Barla included but out voted ) is much more structured than that.


Have you changed your mind on permit players Peter?
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#59 bowes

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:13 AM

Elmbridge have been going for a lot longer, even if they did change their name from Kingston.

Hopefully Souths will build up again, but there could be a weak London League below the Southern Conference next season (echoes of 1997!)

Would Hammersmith be in this weak London League? Could be some thrashings though guess echoes of London Colonials

#60 bulldog_paddy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

Any ideas on criteria for such a league , juniors for example , or is it envisaged it will purely be on playing standard of the team and percieved willingness to travel?




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