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#21 Griff

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:43 AM

It's going ahead and it's actually Sheffield acting as the parent club.


It's not a Superleague-Championship link up.

Which is the thread title.
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#22 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:45 AM

It's a SL money saving exercise first and foremost, you're absolutely right. When did the SL clubs ever show the slightest concern for the plight of the Championship? If they don't get exactly what they want out of this they'll drop their subservient 'partners' like a ton of bricks.


Leeds Rhinos spring to mind, joint lottery with and sponsorship of featherstone rovers.

it's so unfair.

before SL when did 1st division clubs show the slightest concern for the plight of second divisiojn clubs?
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#23 The Parksider

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:58 AM


1. Parky? Are you telling me that the the people who support Fev could one day have an affinity to Cas?

2. Which Rovers players would Wakey take from us?

3. Sponsors have a choice and will support the club which looks after them and their clients the best. SL clubs should be better equipped to make the match day experience far more attractive to potential sponsors but some apparently fail miserably.

4. Look at the attendances in the Championship. If all of those fans decided to defect to the SL it wouldn't make a bit of difference.


1. Not at all, not one little bit, it would suit your argument Terry if I did think that.

I've lived through going on 50 years of rugby league and south Leeds people would not go near headingley at one time - they hated the place. Nowadays all roads from south Leeds lead to headingley. As you may know the road leading up to SLS is a dead end.

You know as well as me fans often come from far and wide and old fans leave the game and new ones come in every week.

What I'm telling you is a big SL club in the calder area will attract fans over time from all over that region and beyond in a steady process that will help growth - see 4.

2. None, but a top SL club in your area would see players all wanting to go there, happens in Leeds, good old Bramley and hunslet lads can't get to Leeds fast enough.

3. sponsors have a choice of going to three clubs now none of whom are that entertaining. One big slick club in the area and sponsors will go there. IIRC at our near demise we only had one sponsor interested. One :(

4. Nonsense Terry we have clubs on 7,000 crowds making losses and clubs on 9000 crowds doing well.

Do you really believe that every customer they can get is not important?

Glover will be aiming for newmarket to attarct evey soul it can from every WF postcode and beyond, he'll look for every decent kid to go streight to his academy and he'll offer ever sponsor possible a table at the ground. If that means the demise of local "rivals" it will also mean the aggrandisment of his club.

Same in Hull - pearsons aggresive chasing of Rovers best players will be aimed at taking all Rovers have if he could. people like Pearson and Glover are there to succeed for their clubs alone.

Hetherington has just about mopped up in Leeds, It's taken about 17 years to do so but it illustrates the process that is happening since the clubs decided to go it alone and compete to the death.

OK maybe RL does not need to lose a whole tier of clubs. maybe that tier is being preserved via the tie ups. If a club is not part of the tie up system then there is a real danger of them ending up isolated or even defunct in another 17 years.

I'm sure Leeds will want Hunslet to be top of the Championship and not Leigh or Halifax

#24 The Parksider

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:24 PM

In my opinion these tie up's are not the creeping fog of domination by a chosen elite, it is a system designed to buy time to work out what the hell the sport does with developing talent. That is the issue that nobody seems to be discussing on the thread.


Your entitled to your opinion, but just how you can say that when Barry Eaton himslef confirms Leeds total domination of Hunslet in their arrangement, and when Powell and Aston ring the alarm bells in terms of their future ability to not be dominated by feeder clubs.

Your idea that the CC clubs are owed something for ther recent efforts "You can't on one hand justify spending money upgrading stadiums and carrying out community work to then chuck all that in the bin" doesn't seem to make any sense to me with respect.

I do not recall either RFL or SL going to the CC clubs and suggesting that they may like to make improvements in readiness for possible SL entry and if they do they will be rewarded???

It was the CC clubs who went after the RFL asking what they had to do to qualify for the opportunity of a place in Superleague.

That these clubs may spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on stands and academies is their choice. It does not in any way signal they are being lined up for Superleague by RFL/SLE. It signals to me a last throw of the dice.

You may have noticed the recent waving through of the Toulouse application as being rubber stamped by the top four clubs, you may also have heard chairmen talking about only 12 clubs in SL next time. You may have noticed new grounds in Leigh and Halifax aren't exciting anyone at Red Hall. You may have noticed on SL rejection the Halifax academy went.

I'm afraid the bottom line is that there is a very real possibility that some clubs may have worked very very hard and spent loads of money looking towards Superleague, for that to go to waste. In our game the waste of money by clubs is not a fraction as important than keeping the SKY money going.

As for discussing developing talent and how to sort it that discussion is pretty much negated by the fact the clubs seem to have decided. Superleague will tie up with selected Championship clubs in both CC divisions for a co-ordinated appraoch. It's a "fete accompli".

Time to move on and discuss where CC clubs with NO tie up may go and how, and also work out why skint SL underspenders in various states of crisis like HKR, Salford and Cas oddly have no tie ups nor a hint of any??

I think that chairmen know the writing on the wall here, after all it's being discussed in the here and now at top level.

Edited by The Parksider, 19 November 2012 - 12:28 PM.


#25 Ackroman

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

Your entitled to your opinion, but just how you can say that when Barry Eaton himslef confirms Leeds total domination of Hunslet in their arrangement, and when Powell and Aston ring the alarm bells in terms of their future ability to not be dominated by feeder clubs.

Your idea that the CC clubs are owed something for ther recent efforts "You can't on one hand justify spending money upgrading stadiums and carrying out community work to then chuck all that in the bin" doesn't seem to make any sense to me with respect.

I do not recall either RFL or SL going to the CC clubs and suggesting that they may like to make improvements in readiness for possible SL entry and if they do they will be rewarded???

It was the CC clubs who went after the RFL asking what they had to do to qualify for the opportunity of a place in Superleague.

That these clubs may spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on stands and academies is their choice. It does not in any way signal they are being lined up for Superleague by RFL/SLE. It signals to me a last throw of the dice.

You may have noticed the recent waving through of the Toulouse application as being rubber stamped by the top four clubs, you may also have heard chairmen talking about only 12 clubs in SL next time. You may have noticed new grounds in Leigh and Halifax aren't exciting anyone at Red Hall. You may have noticed on SL rejection the Halifax academy went.

I'm afraid the bottom line is that there is a very real possibility that some clubs may have worked very very hard and spent loads of money looking towards Superleague, for that to go to waste. In our game the waste of money by clubs is not a fraction as important than keeping the SKY money going.

As for discussing developing talent and how to sort it that discussion is pretty much negated by the fact the clubs seem to have decided. Superleague will tie up with selected Championship clubs in both CC divisions for a co-ordinated appraoch. It's a "fete accompli".

Time to move on and discuss where CC clubs with NO tie up may go and how, and also work out why skint SL underspenders in various states of crisis like HKR, Salford and Cas oddly have no tie ups nor a hint of any??

I think that chairmen know the writing on the wall here, after all it's being discussed in the here and now at top level.


I don't get the Domesday scenario you paint. This is about player development not club development. They may not be mutually exclusive but they are different subjects.

The way I see it the quality of any development system is affected by it's weakest players. An academy league is clearly prone to the widest variation, whereas a pyramid for player development can counter it.

One other point is that I didn't say clubs deserved SL or refer to clubs developing to just get into SL, rather I was referring to clubs developing there resources for there own ends. That may be SL for some, for others they have different motives.

Edited by Ackroman, 19 November 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#26 bowes

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:36 PM

It's going ahead and it's actually Sheffield acting as the parent club.

Sheffield are also looking to set up a feeder club based out of Sheffield Hallam University playing in the Conference League South. Not sure how they'd send players to France unless it's just on match day.

#27 Ackroman

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:38 PM

Your entitled to your opinion, but just how you can say that when Barry Eaton himslef confirms Leeds total domination of Hunslet in their arrangement, .


One other thing. Where does he say that? All I can find is your interpretation.

#28 Ackroman

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

double post

Edited by Ackroman, 19 November 2012 - 02:39 PM.


#29 Griff

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:54 PM

Not sure how they'd send players to France unless it's just on match day.


It's happening now. Eddie Battye's out there playing for Villeneuve.

Match days only ? :blink: Cost would be prohibitive, surely.
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#30 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

I don't get the Domesday scenario you paint. This is about player development not club development. They may not be mutually exclusive but they are different subjects.

The way I see it the quality of any development system is affected by it's weakest players. An academy league is clearly prone to the widest variation, whereas a pyramid for player development can counter it.

One other point is that I didn't say clubs deserved SL or refer to clubs developing to just get into SL, rather I was referring to clubs developing there resources for there own ends. That may be SL for some, for others they have different motives.



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#31 Marauder

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:59 PM

It's not a Superleague-Championship link up.

Which is the thread title.

Nit-picking The title doesn't say Super League clubs linking up with Championship clubs either.

Edited by Marauder, 19 November 2012 - 04:02 PM.

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#32 keighley

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:07 PM

Your entitled to your opinion, but just how you can say that when Barry Eaton himslef confirms Leeds total domination of Hunslet in their arrangement, and when Powell and Aston ring the alarm bells in terms of their future ability to not be dominated by feeder clubs.

Your idea that the CC clubs are owed something for ther recent efforts "You can't on one hand justify spending money upgrading stadiums and carrying out community work to then chuck all that in the bin" doesn't seem to make any sense to me with respect.

I do not recall either RFL or SL going to the CC clubs and suggesting that they may like to make improvements in readiness for possible SL entry and if they do they will be rewarded???

It was the CC clubs who went after the RFL asking what they had to do to qualify for the opportunity of a place in Superleague.

That these clubs may spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on stands and academies is their choice. It does not in any way signal they are being lined up for Superleague by RFL/SLE. It signals to me a last throw of the dice.

You may have noticed the recent waving through of the Toulouse application as being rubber stamped by the top four clubs, you may also have heard chairmen talking about only 12 clubs in SL next time. You may have noticed new grounds in Leigh and Halifax aren't exciting anyone at Red Hall. You may have noticed on SL rejection the Halifax academy went.

I'm afraid the bottom line is that there is a very real possibility that some clubs may have worked very very hard and spent loads of money looking towards Superleague, for that to go to waste. In our game the waste of money by clubs is not a fraction as important than keeping the SKY money going.

As for discussing developing talent and how to sort it that discussion is pretty much negated by the fact the clubs seem to have decided. Superleague will tie up with selected Championship clubs in both CC divisions for a co-ordinated appraoch. It's a "fete accompli".

Time to move on and discuss where CC clubs with NO tie up may go and how, and also work out why skint SL underspenders in various states of crisis like HKR, Salford and Cas oddly have no tie ups nor a hint of any??

I think that chairmen know the writing on the wall here, after all it's being discussed in the here and now at top level.


When you have your "BIG TEAM" competition of 8 British clubs, all but one on the M62, and the remaining one is likely to be an early casualty, what will you do then.?

By your definition no other team will ever be big enough to join the top boys, so bang goes expansion. The minute one of the anointed goes belly up and someone will always have to finish bottom or will do a Bradford, you will have killed off any possible replacements.

There is going to be all this player development, schools, amateurs,London, wales , the heartlands etc all leading to a small bottleneck which players have to squeeze through to play professionally as the places will not be there for them due to the small size of the SL. We will lose out on talent big time.

You might think your dream of a big time SL and sod the rest is nirvana for the game and will end up with Wigan and Leeds or whomever being mega giants like Man U or Arsenal. I think it will result in retrenchment, disolution of the core support for the game and eventual irrelevance. You can only regurgitate fixtures against the same 9 teams year in, year out before monotony sets in and the insignificant size of the competition becomes a problem.

Of you lose Manchester ( Salford), half of Hull, half of Wakefield metro area, and Widnes and of the remainder, one has no fans and two are in France, you will have a recipe for disaster for both SL and RL as a whole. Good luck though with your dream.

The Australian game used to be a small cabal of clubs based in Sydney. They now have a 16 team NRL and have not ruled out expansion of that. Do you think they could revert to that Sydney competition and be relevant to the rest of Australia. That's what you are proposing for SL, a small geographical nucleus in the heartlands with a dodgy London and two French teams thrown in. I don't think it will work out myself but if it dosn't it will be too late for the game. The rest of it will be "a" teams to dead and gone. Be careful what you wish for, the grass is not always greener.

#33 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:26 PM

1. Not at all, not one little bit, it would suit your argument Terry if I did think that.

I've lived through going on 50 years of rugby league and south Leeds people would not go near headingley at one time - they hated the place. Nowadays all roads from south Leeds lead to headingley. As you may know the road leading up to SLS is a dead end.

You know as well as me fans often come from far and wide and old fans leave the game and new ones come in every week.

What I'm telling you is a big SL club in the calder area will attract fans over time from all over that region and beyond in a steady process that will help growth - see 4.

2. None, but a top SL club in your area would see players all wanting to go there, happens in Leeds, good old Bramley and hunslet lads can't get to Leeds fast enough.

3. sponsors have a choice of going to three clubs now none of whom are that entertaining. One big slick club in the area and sponsors will go there. IIRC at our near demise we only had one sponsor interested. One :(

4. Nonsense Terry we have clubs on 7,000 crowds making losses and clubs on 9000 crowds doing well.

Do you really believe that every customer they can get is not important?

Glover will be aiming for newmarket to attarct evey soul it can from every WF postcode and beyond, he'll look for every decent kid to go streight to his academy and he'll offer ever sponsor possible a table at the ground. If that means the demise of local "rivals" it will also mean the aggrandisment of his club.

Same in Hull - pearsons aggresive chasing of Rovers best players will be aimed at taking all Rovers have if he could. people like Pearson and Glover are there to succeed for their clubs alone.

Hetherington has just about mopped up in Leeds, It's taken about 17 years to do so but it illustrates the process that is happening since the clubs decided to go it alone and compete to the death.

OK maybe RL does not need to lose a whole tier of clubs. maybe that tier is being preserved via the tie ups. If a club is not part of the tie up system then there is a real danger of them ending up isolated or even defunct in another 17 years.

I'm sure Leeds will want Hunslet to be top of the Championship and not Leigh or Halifax

1. So if one big SL club exists in the Calder area at some time in the future are you saying that the other two will eventually be left with next to no fans in say 10 or 20 years time? With respect, all three clubs in the Wakefield area have strong fan bases, Fev for instance increased their attendances last season by 38% despite not being in SL. No indication of any sort of defection to either of the SL clubs there then. So when do you reckon the drift towards the bigger clubs might take a grip? SL is approaching its 18th season. Comparing the rest with what's happened to Hunslet is a mistake.

2. Year after year could one big club give the considerable number of talented kids which come from the Wakefield triangle the attention, nurturing and opportunity necessary without the sport losing good young players? What is happening to the Bramley and Hunslet kids who are flocking in droves to Leeds right now? Who are they and where are they playing?

3. Sponsored are royally entertained at Featherstone, let me assure you. They come back year after year. Perhaps you ought to see for yourself. Sponsors, like fans, develop an affinity also and will continue to support their chosen club if entertained well in return. How can you say that none of the three clubs are that entertaining? Wakey have shown great form and Fev have lost just five of their last 58 league games, knocked a SL club out of the cup, gave a rampant Wigan a real scare andvreached five finals. Can you point me to another sporting entity at any level that can match such a record of achievement?

4. See point 1. Glover et al might want to dominate the area and beyond but both Cas and Fev will have a big say in that for many years to come.it wouldn't be good business for The Wildcats anyway to attempt to do so. For instance why would Pearson want to asset strip HKR when they provide by far their biggest gate of the season? Doesn't make any sense. The Wakefield area, similarly needs three SL clubs, not just one. It is a hotbed of RL talent and the RFL should be doing all it can to maximise the pathways for the young kids to tread, not reduce them just to save money.


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#34 Griff

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:52 AM

Nit-picking The title doesn't say Super League clubs linking up with Championship clubs either.


We'll see how it works out. But I suspect there'll be none of the dual reg calling players back a couple of days before the game. It'll be loans.
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#35 Emosi Koloto

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:03 AM

I thought Hull KR were linked with Whitehaven.
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#36 Blind side johnny

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:53 PM

The biggest assets of most sports clubs are the players, will this mean the championship clubs will become worthless?

SNIP


Not on a balance sheet they aren't. Most CC clubs have players on one or at most two year contracts which means they aren't a financial asset at all.
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#37 Blind side johnny

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:01 PM

Backing away from the bigger picture for a moment this move is actually an example of commercial cowardice by the SL clubs. Tony Smith has said elsewhere that, by the age on 20, a player will obviously be good enough for SL or he won't but that just one or two might be late developers. the fear of SL clubs is that if they let all of their under-achievers go then they might be in danger of losing one good player every couple of years. Rather than take this risk they choose to hang onto the majority of them and farm them out to a CC club in the hope that they may blossom. I confidently predict that the majority of these players will be released in the medium term anyway but in the meantime some CC clubs may have been severely damaged.

I'm sure that many will disagree with this but I would ask the question - how many players have been on dual-reg over the past couple of years and, of those, how many have become a success in SL/been released?
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#38 Griff

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:59 PM

Not on a balance sheet they aren't. Most CC clubs have players on one or at most two year contracts which means they aren't a financial asset at all.


Quite right Johnny.

Hardly any clubs capitalise their player assets these days. All gone with the Bosman case.
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#39 sweaty craiq

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:43 AM

Glad the Leeds and Fev link up missed from the OP was brought up.

#40 marklaspalmas

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:14 AM

Glad the Leeds and Fev link up missed from the OP was brought up.


Yeah, I left out all the imaginary ones. Sorry.

 

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