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manchester rugby club 1960 - not a merger thread


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#21 Methven Hornet

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:42 PM

It was slightly different in that those nicknames / monikers tended to come about naturally e.g. Swinton Lions after the lions pub or the need to differentiate themselves from other sides like Rochdale FC / RFC (don't know which). They weren't created with the thought of flogging T-shirts or creating mascots. City Reds has that feel even if it was adopted in 1998.

I'm not against the SL style nicknames but most of them have little thought behind them, it is just a case of looking up a synonym for "soldier" or the name of a large animal. The best ones were those that came via fan polls.

No idea how Fev ended up as Rovers but I like it.


Taken from the Hornets' Centenary Booklet:-


The first meeting of the Hornets' Football Club was held on 20 April 1871 at the Roebuck Hotel, when the title was fixed upon.


...


There was much discussion as to a name for the club at the 1871 meeting. Rochdale Wasps, Rochdale Butterflies, Rochdale Grasshoppers were first suggested, but "at last some enlightened individual proposed a name that took their fancy more, Rochdale Hornets, and Hornets it has been ever since."


So, as artificial a name as any of the more modern ones created by a club's board of directors; it just seems traditional because of the length of time it's been around. And, in a late 19th and early 20th century context, it will have been used in marketing.
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#22 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

All the information(and more)is here at your fingertips relating to tours and the temporarily merged teams

http://www.rugbyleag...64/summary.html
It's a great new site


It is indeed, unfortunately the Manchester page looks like this:-

http://www.rugbyleag...er/summary.html

#23 gingerjon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:50 PM

edit: and Barrow were Braves before becoming Raiders.


That was because Carlisle Border Raiders made a kind of sense that Barrow Border Raiders didn't.
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#24 Just Browny

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:14 PM

Given that lupus is the Latin for wolf (as I'm sure you're aware), I would imagine you're on the right lines.


Indeedy, quite a cool name.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#25 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:18 PM

That was because Carlisle Border Raiders made a kind of sense that Barrow Border Raiders didn't.


No, but they dropped the "border" bit years ago.

#26 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:23 PM

Taken from the Hornets' Centenary Booklet:-


The first meeting of the Hornets' Football Club was held on 20 April 1871 at the Roebuck Hotel, when the title was fixed upon.


...


There was much discussion as to a name for the club at the 1871 meeting. Rochdale Wasps, Rochdale Butterflies, Rochdale Grasshoppers were first suggested, but "at last some enlightened individual proposed a name that took their fancy more, Rochdale Hornets, and Hornets it has been ever since."


So, as artificial a name as any of the more modern ones created by a club's board of directors; it just seems traditional because of the length of time it's been around. And, in a late 19th and early 20th century context, it will have been used in marketing.


I know that but IIRC there was another Rochdale side which necessitated them calling themselves Rochdale X. And while there was no particular reason to choose Hornets, it wasn't done for commercial reasons.

I think most of us recognise the need for commercial interests in the game but they are a necessary evil.

On the whole I prefer names that say something about the club or area. The new clubs joining CC1 are All Golds (great name), Stags (fantastic) and err Oxford RLFC (boring).

Leeds Rhinos works very well as a device for flogging shirts but it's crass.

#27 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

This is the snippet I got from the Salford City Reds website, it was put there by club historian and yet nobody seems to know about it. It does tend to suggest that it was more than just the Manchester XIII rep fixture that wound folk up.


A proposal in 1960 to create a Manchester rugby league club at the former White City Stadium on Chester Road received strong opposition from Salford and Swinton. Their protests were renewed when a match was staged there between a Rugby League XIII and the New Zealand tourists in September 1961 and the idea was subsequently dropped.



#28 keighley

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:43 PM

This is the snippet I got from the Salford City Reds website, it was put there by club historian and yet nobody seems to know about it. It does tend to suggest that it was more than just the Manchester XIII rep fixture that wound folk up.


A proposal in 1960 to create a Manchester rugby league club at the former White City Stadium on Chester Road received strong opposition from Salford and Swinton. Their protests were renewed when a match was staged there between a Rugby League XIII and the New Zealand tourists in September 1961 and the idea was subsequently dropped.


I think that you have solved the mystery with that quote. Great job.

#29 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:51 PM

I haven't really, this was the quote that got me thinking.

Why have I never heard of this before?
Why does nobody else seem to know about it?
Who was behind the club that never existed?
Why were Salford and Swinton fans so negative?

The last one is the real odd one, if it wasn't a merged club then why the anger?

#30 keighley

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:56 PM

I haven't really, this was the quote that got me thinking.

Why have I never heard of this before?
Why does nobody else seem to know about it?
Who was behind the club that never existed?
Why were Salford and Swinton fans so negative?

The last one is the real odd one, if it wasn't a merged club then why the anger?


Maybe because it would have been competiton to Salford and Swinton and they really didn't need that. After all, they had only just about rid themselves of Broughton/Belle Vue Rangers.

#31 The Parksider

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:02 PM

Maybe because it would have been competiton to Salford and Swinton and they really didn't need that. After all, they had only just about rid themselves of Broughton/Belle Vue Rangers.


The white city match was the combined Salford/Swinton team, but as you say the body of Belle Vue Rangers was still warm, the club having gone under 6 years earlier for the want of a ground, and it may be that people wanted to resurrect the club back nearer their Broughton roots at White City which I think is up the road from Old trafford, but not way over the other side of the city that Belle Vue was?. So maybe you have cracked it with that suggestion.

#32 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

I'm not just talking about SL, the names go down into BARLA and RLC as well.

Think old school we have Centurions, Crusaders, Knights, Vikings. Maybe if we had just one side called "Centurions" or "Crusaders", it would be okay but we've far too many.

edit: and Barrow were Braves before becoming Raiders.



Probably.

Hudderfield's is one of the most gratuitous. They must have spent about 5 mins flicking through the NFL handbook before picking the name of the biggest, richest club.

I quite liked the Sharks epithet, shame the fans didn't.


with rugby league being a combative team sport it's reasonable to expect 'soldier type' soubriquets.
However, for instance Widnes was a Viking settlement. I think your defining of Vikings as 'soldiers' by the way is a little one dimensional-they were farmers and trtaders as well, but no matter. Widnes were originally going to be called the Giants because one of the tallest men to live in the UK was butied nearby, but Huddersfield beat them to it. Why is Giants inapproriate for Hudds, but Rovers ok for fev?

I can't see what your beef is
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#33 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

with rugby league being a combative team sport it's reasonable to expect 'soldier type' soubriquets.
However, for instance Widnes was a Viking settlement. I think your defining of Vikings as 'soldiers' by the way is a little one dimensional-they were farmers and trtaders as well, but no matter.


You are confusing Vikings and Scandinavians. Viking means "raider".

I am aware of Widnes connections with Vikings. It's not a name I object to.

Widnes were originally going to be called the Giants because one of the tallest men to live in the UK was butied nearby, but Huddersfield beat them to it. Why is Giants inapproriate for Hudds, but Rovers ok for fev?

I can't see what your beef is


Because Hudds Giants is a meaningless name, it involved no thought and it had no connection with Huddersfield. Their logo is rubbish as well.

It's not as bad as "blue sox" but nothing is.

I don't know why Rovers chose that name but it is commonly adopted by teams lacking a stable home rather than for commercial reasons. Wanderers is another such example.

I understand why clubs had to adopt monikers but some chose well and incorporated traditional nicknames such as Lions and Rovers; others picked names that at least had local relevance such as Sharks or Vikings; others picked names that had commercial value like Rhinos. But Huddersfield and Halifax managed to avoid all of that.

Edited by Northern Sol, 18 November 2012 - 06:21 PM.


#34 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

And some other clubs like Keighley allowed the fans to pick their name.

#35 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:24 PM

You are confusing Vikings and Scandinavians. Viking means "raider".

I am aware of Widnes connections with Vikings. It's not a name I object to.



Because Hudds Giants is a meaningless name, it involved no thought and it had no connection with Huddersfield. Their logo is rubbish as well.

It's not as bad as "blue sox" but nothing is.

I don't know why Rovers chose that name but it is commonly adopted by teams lacking a stable home rather than for commercial reasons. Wanderers is another such example.

I understand why clubs had to adopt monikers but some chose well and incorporated traditional nicknames such as Lions and Rovers; others picked names that at least had local relevance such as Sharks or Vikings; others picked names that had commercial value like Rhinos. But Huddersfield and Halifax managed to avoid all of that.


so we've narrowed it down to Halifax, who no longer use the name, and Huddersfield.
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#36 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:25 PM

And some other clubs like Keighley allowed the fans to pick their name.


cougars was one of the most ridiculed by the reactionaries
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#37 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:30 PM

You are confusing Vikings and Scandinavians. Viking means "raider".

I am aware of Widnes connections with Vikings. It's not a name I object to.



Because Hudds Giants is a meaningless name, it involved no thought and it had no connection with Huddersfield. Their logo is rubbish as well.

It's not as bad as "blue sox" but nothing is.

I don't know why Rovers chose that name but it is commonly adopted by teams lacking a stable home rather than for commercial reasons. Wanderers is another such example.

I understand why clubs had to adopt monikers but some chose well and incorporated traditional nicknames such as Lions and Rovers; others picked names that at least had local relevance such as Sharks or Vikings; others picked names that had commercial value like Rhinos. But Huddersfield and Halifax managed to avoid all of that.

sharks. I'm led to believe that Hull id a seafaring town, and Hull FC no longer use the name.. Vikings has already been explained to you.
What makes something 'traditional' Rugby League has a tradition of innovation, adaprarion and change-new names for clubs falls well within that ambit.

What names are traditional and why?
Why would a team 70 miles inland name themselves after pirates? At the time wouldn't it have been as gratuitous as Hudds calling themselves the Giants?
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#38 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

Like I said before, the fans didn't like "Sharks", I do. Perhaps the club should have consulted them.

As for Rover, it doesn't just mean "pirate" even if Fev do have a pirate mascot, it also means someone who travels.

A "tradition of innovation" shouldn't mean that any old ###### is acceptable. It's best to ask the fans what they want, I doubt that Giants would have been anyone's choice.

#39 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:35 PM

cougars was one of the most ridiculed by the reactionaries


Because it was first.

#40 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:36 PM

so we've narrowed it down to Halifax, who no longer use the name, and Huddersfield.


There are a few others I don't like.




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