24 replies to this topic

[Oracle]

Got into a discussion last night with the father in law regarding the setting up of a Raiders Reserve team and the costs of doing so. I'm a believer that we could do this with minimal cost really. Since we dont have any existing structure in place, i think we could set up a under 19's squad who could remain on 'amature' terms and not get paid, since the ultimate aim of the players is to gain a first team contract. Since these players would come from local amature clubs, they dont get paid for playing anyway, and would therefore jump at the chance of playing for the Raiders. All they would need is some training gear, a tracksuit and a polo shirt.
Games could be scheduled for match days so this could provide some pre match entertainment prior to first team games, and would also serve to give fans chance to watch up coming players.
Since we are now playing at a higher level, i cant see us signing local amatures into the squad like we did at the start of last season, but this could provide a pathway for maybe 2-3 players per season to make the transition.

[Plan of Attack]

From what I can gather there are only about 5?(if anyone knows better feel free to advise me) teams running a reserve team at championship level so who would they play?

[shun]

I think we should concentrate on the 1st team and the ground and the floodlights before even considering a reserve team, even so i dont think there is a big enough player pool in the area to start plucking star players from local teams thus weakening them. maybe if the fringe players that arent getting a game at barrow, they could dual reg them out to the local amatuer teams there fore keeping match fitness and also getting a run out. If sl clubs are doing it with champ clubs, why cant champ clubs do it with local amatuer teams?

Edited by shun, 18 November 2012 - 08:16 PM.

[shun]

Games could be scheduled for match days so this could provide some pre match entertainment prior to first team games, and would also serve to give fans chance to watch up coming players.

sounds a good idea for the local amatuer teams, working on alternate weekends a local game could be played at CP as a warm up to the raiders game, Hindpool one week Millom the next B I the next and so on and so on. would prob increase gates also with fans coming to watch the local team 1st that prob wouldnt go to watch the raiders?

Edited by shun, 18 November 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[bearman]

sounds a good idea for the local amatuer teams, working on alternate weekends a local game could be played at CP as a warm up to the raiders game, Hindpool one week Millom the next B I the next and so on and so on. would prob increase gates also with fans coming to watch the local team 1st that prob wouldnt go to watch the raiders?

Yes, but could the amateur clubs afford to lose the bar revenue from a home game? They are hand to mouth too.

[shun]

Yes, but could the amateur clubs afford to lose the bar revenue from a home game? They are hand to mouth too.

good point but you are proberbly looking at 1 game per season per amatuer club. i think it would be a great idea, local teams playing in the local pro clubs stadium sounds gud to me.!

[HP Beans]

Bout time the pro club starting looking after the Amateur clubs instead of the other way around?

[soss]

I think that the relationship with the amateur clubs is still strained and needs to be improved. I have seen it from both sides and it is a difficult to hit a happy medium that satisfies all parties.
A curtain raiser is hard as the changing rooms are needed a couple of hours before a game and the pitch has to be vacated 40-60 minutes before kick off.
It is also when people only want to watch the amateur game and not the main event as these people have to leave straight after the amateur game. I would prefer the game to take place after the main event. The players could get changed at hindpool and enter the pitch straight after the final whistle. People who only want to watch the amateur game could then just walk through the gate after paying an agreed amount, with the proceeds going to the amateur club. I'm sure that an arrangement could be made between barrow and the amateur club as to the amateur club losing revenue by the way of a donation from barrow thus further cementing the relationship between the two. I am not talking lots of money but perhaps a small amount from the takings.
You also have to look at the cost as barrow have a duty of care to all visitors to the ground whether that is for an amateur game or professional game. I would love to see this happen though.

Edited by soss, 18 November 2012 - 09:24 PM.

[shun]

A curtain raiser is hard as the changing rooms are needed a couple of hours before a game and the pitch has to be vacated 40-60 minutes before kick off.

Hi why does the pitch have to be vacated so long before KO?

[soss]

For the warm up..if the pitch is not available we would face the wrath of the RFL...

[shun]

For the warm up..if the pitch is not available we would face the wrath of the RFL...

Off corse the warm up, it was an idea anyways, what is the deal with dual reg with amatuer clubs and pro clubs? is it possible and would the raiders use it if it was?

[soss]

The RFL looked at it last season but decided against it for some reason, I believe but will stand corrected that its reviewed in 2014. In my opinion it would have been great for championship 1 clubs but not sure how it would work for championship clubs with no under 23's side. I would hate to put unproven amateurs into a championship side as the step up would be just too great and could do more damage than good.
Personally I would like to see a barrow supporting the academy and jets program more. Eventually ending with a south Cumbrian academy. Perhaps this can be done through the amateur clubs with resources from barrow assisting them and eventually when/ if we have the funds, supported financially giving barrow the opportunity to select the players that could make the grade and giving the amateur teams the advantage of professionally trained players. ( no slight intended to all the hard working coaches out there)
Just my thoughts...

[soss]

Shun, I think you have to look at the grass routes of the game and work from there on a 5 to 10 year development plan. If you aim at developing the game at junior level and support these kids through the years with the jets program and coaching camps eventually you will encourage more kids into the game. It's all about numbers key point indicators through the age groups monitoring who, where and when receive the coaching required and at what level. I like the jets program as its open to everyone thus catching young individuals who for whatever reason have slipped through the net. What we have to avoid is the disasters that come with a barrow raiders, whitehaven or workington run training and development scheme as history tells us as soon as either the money or interest has gone these players are scattered into the wind.
Barrow need the amateur sides more than the amateur sides need barrow therefore barrow must work with the clubs to create a scheduled development program that can be sustainable.

Edited by soss, 18 November 2012 - 10:51 PM.

[Keith Nutter]

Shun, I think you have to look at the grass routes of the game and work from there on a 5 to 10 year development plan. If you aim at developing the game at junior level and support these kids through the years with the jets program and coaching camps eventually you will encourage more kids into the game. It's all about numbers key point indicators through the age groups monitoring who, where and when receive the coaching required and at what level. I like the jets program as its open to everyone thus catching young individuals who for whatever reason have slipped through the net. What we have to avoid is the disasters that come with a barrow raiders, whitehaven or workington run training and development scheme as history tells us as soon as either the money or interest has gone these players are scattered into the wind.
Barrow need the amateur sides more than the amateur sides need barrow therefore barrow must work with the clubs to create a scheduled development program that can be sustainable.

I agree with more or less everything you say here Mike. I am speaking now not as a Director of Barrow RFC but as a grandparent of a rugby league mad youngster. The local junior game (up to and including under 16s) is struggling for numbers and that needs to be addressed somehow and it needs to be addressed very quickly in my opinion.
Already during 2012 Hawcoat Storm have declined to join the U12 and U14 levels, Walney have dropped out of the U14 level until at least next March and other sides at all levels are calling off matches due to lack of numbers. And all this from a not very strong base in terms of numbers to start with.
This season just 6 teams are playing at U12s, 8 at U14s (now less Walney who are in limbo until March 2013), and U16s. In the U14s league Barrow Island field two teams so just six clubs are now competing at that level.
Even in the schools the situation is no better - just recently St Bernards Year 8 side was given a walkover in the local schools cup as the Academy (North and South combined I believe) couldn't raise a team.
This situation bothers me greatly as we are building the future of the sport in our region on sand and unless we can increase numbers more and more kids will turn to kiss ball where they will get a match every week.
I have no idea what the anwser to this problem is and I am absolutely certain that everybody involved at junior level is doing their utmost to increase numbers but the stark reality is that we are declining rather than growing.

[HP Beans]

I agree Keith it is very worrying.

RFL Development officers/Raiders players employed as such should be attending all the schools in the local area and getting youngsters involved in their local clubs,is this happening?

How many development officers do we have in the area?
How many current players are employed to work in the community?

[robmac]

I have been involved with youth rugby for the last 16 years at least i have seen the game go from strong to struggle more so in the last 3 to 4 years , there seem to be teams that promise some of the better player from weaker team the earth to play for them so they go to these teams then the weaker teams get hammered week in week out players then leave the game ,
Also there football that if you get selected to play for the town you actually play for the town not just train ,Also play ever week and do not change the playing season very year ,
we in rugby league no longer play games against other town's just train , even kick and chase play game against other town.
then there is coaching you have to give 2 full week end to get your coaching badge also do course very 1 year to keep up to date it makes hard for club to attract people to join the coaching side .
i think some open age side struggling in the same way .
the game will die around here if some thing is not done soon

[soss]

I agree Keith it is very worrying.

RFL Development officers/Raiders players employed as such should be attending all the schools in the local area and getting youngsters involved in their local clubs,is this happening?

How many development officers do we have in the area?
How many current players are employed to work in the community?

I can only tell you what happened last year. I pulled all the development officers together and encouraged them to work as a team. This was successful and eventually I left the group for them to work together lead by al Goodings. You have to remember that all these people are employed by CP2 not barrow, however barrow supported the development roles financially and with placements throughout the schools. I have not been contacted since leaving, however my worry is that we have now lost the player working in ulverston Victoria and Al Goodings contract ends in march. John Pearce is involved with looking at the grants available and sponsorship but again since I have left I have not been getting reports.

[HP Beans]

I can only tell you what happened last year. I pulled all the development officers together and encouraged them to work as a team. This was successful and eventually I left the group for them to work together lead by al Goodings. You have to remember that all these people are employed by CP2 not barrow, however barrow supported the development roles financially and with placements throughout the schools. I have not been contacted since leaving, however my worry is that we have now lost the player working in ulverston Victoria and Al Goodings contract ends in march. John Pearce is involved with looking at the grants available and sponsorship but again since I have left I have not been getting reports.

How many local development officers do we have?

What is CP2,I thought that they were employed by the RFL?

[morty]

if the RFL cut funding for the youmgsters at grass roots level how can the game ever expand?

[livo]

It is very worrying about the decline in numbers in the junior game. When I was at school not that long ago, every school had a team (which I hope it has now). But we used to enjoy it. Midweek games for the school and weekend games for the local amateurs. What we didn't have in those days was SKY TV. Everything you here on tv these days is football. You have about 10 live games on a week. Football stars on adverts and the like. Kids talk at school and they want to play like their favourite footy star. I know its awful to say but our kids have been brainwashed. My kids wouldn't dream of watching a rugby league game on tv, but would go and watch it live!!! To me, we need to get out in the schools, give free tickets away or what ever it takes. Get the kids interested some how.