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Joel Moon (merged threads)

Rhinos media release

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#41 Red Willow

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:39 PM

what an arrogant response. Player unsettled by bigger club fakes homesickness and refuses to return.

And all is well with the world?

#42 Pottsy

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

Great for Leeds, strengthens an already strong squad ahead of their bid for an umpteenth consecutive 'super' league title.

Not so great for the competition though.

Leeds are absolutely right to do what's best for them but it'll get to a point eventually where super league itself will have failed its brief.

"In the kingdom of the blind...."

#43 southstand loiner

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

what an arrogant response. Player unsettled by bigger club fakes homesickness and refuses to return.

And all is well with the world?


its not arrogant . the player made it plain he wanted to leave last season long before leeds showed any interest in him indeed he is about the 4th choice centre from the list leeds drew up back in sept .
its not the style for leeds to unsettle a player as they always go through the correct channels before approching a player as bradford will testify when they tried to sign leiulia or whatever his name is from them earlier this month .
word is that salford contacted leeds to offer moon to them last week rather than leeds going after the player themselves after a previous offer had been turned down by salford without leeds making any contact with the player themselves
ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#44 southstand loiner

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:03 PM

Great for Leeds, strengthens an already strong squad ahead of their bid for an umpteenth consecutive 'super' league title.

Not so great for the competition though.

Leeds are absolutely right to do what's best for them but it'll get to a point eventually where super league itself will have failed its brief.

"In the kingdom of the blind...."


why not good for the competion what were leeds expected to do carry on playing a forward out in the centre position just to even things up or sign a player and even then stay within the cap limit .
the point is no club can spend more than a fixed sum which has been agreed on by all the clubs so what is unfair about leeds signing a player who did not want to play for his present club
ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#45 The Parksider

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:09 PM

Great for Leeds, strengthens an already strong squad ahead of their bid for an umpteenth consecutive 'super' league title.
Not so great for the competition though.

Leeds are absolutely right to do what's best for them but it'll get to a point eventually where super league itself will have failed its brief. "In the kingdom of the blind...."


I don't think RFL/SLE are at all blind to the situation hence a review in which three of the SL clubs have spoken openly about how they see Super League reducing in numbers.

Sure, one club was saved at all costs and retained most of it's players and made a link up with a local CC club, another is letting their best players go and has made no efforts to link up with a CC club.

Heavy clues as to who may be in and who may be out 2015.

Edited by The Parksider, 21 November 2012 - 09:10 PM.


#46 Pottsy

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

If you read what I wrote, you'd realise I'm not criticising Leeds for looking after number one. I'm just questioning whether the Super League project had succeeded.

That's another topic for another time though and, to be honest, I'm past caring.

#47 southstand loiner

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:27 PM

If you read what I wrote, you'd realise I'm not criticising Leeds for looking after number one. I'm just questioning whether the Super League project had succeeded.

That's another topic for another time though and, to be honest, I'm past caring.


fair enough it just seems that if say leeds or warrington sign a player its unfair to the rest of the league for some reason but if the likes of hull sign 8 or 9 players theres nothing wrong with it here i should state i dont mind how many players hull sign within the cap limits of course.

super league as a project dont make me laugh it came about as a means of saving the top teams from ruin by excepting the sky deal and had nothing to do with anything other than that . you can call it super league or premiership or any other name you want all it is of course is the top division in the game in this country in a dog eat dog pro sport just like any other sport
ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#48 Pottsy

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:46 PM

The NRL's cap seems to be far more effective at levelling out the comp and stopping the big clubs from cannibalising the rest.

If anything, it makes it harder for clubs to stay successful and keep successful teams together (see Melbourne).

The problem here is that the cap itself is above many clubs' means, whilst others at the top (allegedly) cheat it as it's not as assiduously policed here.

As a result, we're left with a five or six team super league with another 7-8 fillers living hand to mouth.

The ideal is for those 7-8 to raise their standards but IMO it's an impossible gap to bridge without a sugar daddy as they're so open to predators.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that Salford are the main architects of their plight due to consistent mismanagement.

However, it's difficult for a club to maintain momentum when every time it produces a star there's an inevitability that they will lose them.

In the past three years Salford have lost Myler, Turner, Ratchford, Smith, Holdsworth, Moon and Gleeson to bigger clubs. We've also shot ourselves in the foot by losing the likes of Alker and Cashmere.

What incentive is there to build from the ground up without any realistic possibility of progression.

#49 Red Willow

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:09 AM

There is a difference between sining an out of contract player and one with plenty still to run.

There is a difference in timings as well, agreeing personal details with a player refusing to return for pre season.

Signing a player at the end of season giving a team time to recruit rather than start of the new season.

Never mind if the rumours are true I'm sure you can pick off the rest of the team cheaply in the next few days.

#50 Dave T

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:07 AM

If a club can't afford £1.6m in player wages when they are handed around £1.4m in central funding then it suggests they shouldnt be in SL.

Salford dont seem to put that much effort into anything (probably harsh) but even now they appear to be slowly declining without even keeping the fans up to speed.

Edited by Dave T, 22 November 2012 - 09:08 AM.


#51 roughyedspud

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:59 AM

If a club can't afford £1.6m in player wages when they are handed around £1.4m in central funding then it suggests they shouldnt be in SL.


thats always baffled me that......

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the 8TH most successful team in british RL


#52 The Parksider

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

I'll be the first to acknowledge that Salford are the main architects of their plight due to consistent mismanagement.


Can I ask you and others to consider that it is almost impossible to manage anyway when you do not have the money to do so.

Can it not be the case some clubs are also badly managed but a £Million or two handout soon papers over those cracks.

#53 41hound

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:41 AM

If a club can't afford £1.6m in player wages when they are handed around £1.4m in central funding then it suggests they shouldnt be in SL.

Salford dont seem to put that much effort into anything (probably harsh) but even now they appear to be slowly declining without even keeping the fans up to speed.


I actually agree with most of ths Dave. I am a lifelong Salford fan and to be honest we have not been managed propery for years.

I feel that if we (and any other club) can't manage we should go to Champs 1 and THEN be given lots of help to rebuild. That way we get strong clubs and failure is not rewarded. Your comment is harsh, but true!

Hopefully it wont come to that. According to Manchester Evening news (yes I know!! Sorry) we have signed Martin Gleeson today. Lots more waffle too.;
http://menmedia.co.u...n-as-moon-walks

Edited by 41hound, 22 November 2012 - 10:47 AM.


#54 boxhead

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

He is almost a Test rated Australian, just behind Folau and Tonga in the pecking order.
Folau rating a 8-9 in his day
Tonga a 6
Moon a .....

#55 roughyedspud

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:04 PM

did you write that 4 years ago andy? lol

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#56 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:48 PM

No-one's saying Leeds have done anything wrong, the point is how the transfer benefits the league as a whole. Leeds are already streets ahead of Salford and now even more so. People scoffed at my idea in the Scott Taylor to Wigan thread that his sale would lose HKR fans at the gate. Red Willow is a bona fide example of exactly this - a passionate, loyal fan now questioning his commitment to the cause (and rightly so).

Meanwhile, how many potential Rhinos fans have been a bit indecisive, not totally sold on their 18 Grand Final wins in 4 years but will now swell the gates yet further at Headingley as a result of this signing? None, that's how many.

It is a poor move for the league both in terms of credibility and overall commercial value, same as Taylor and many others we've seen this off-season.

#57 Red Willow

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

And how would Warrington have built to their current position without the millions pumped in via Moran's "sponsorship"

How many clubs manage a profit without significant money from directors either via "sponsorship" or loans?

The 1.4 isn't just on wages for players, there are so many other costs involved in running a club, not least getting to away games, rent of stadium, back room staff etc.

I would have added marketing but that's not been a significant cost at Salford in recent years.

#58 1976PMJwires

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:19 PM

And how would Warrington have built to their current position without the millions pumped in via Moran's "sponsorship"

How many clubs manage a profit without significant money from directors either via "sponsorship" or loans?

The 1.4 isn't just on wages for players, there are so many other costs involved in running a club, not least getting to away games, rent of stadium, back room staff etc.

I would have added marketing but that's not been a significant cost at Salford in recent years.


to be fair, Warrington have grown the crowds significantly in the time Moran has been in charge........ Extra revenue to the Club!!!!

Moran bought Gleeson for 200K and then sold to Wigan for 100K
Atkins and Myler bought after the CC Final 2009 success.

Moran has put money into the club, which now returns a profit!!!!


Warrington have been saved, some may say we're lucky, others will understand the hard work and time business men and women have invested into the club.

The HJ is not only a Rugby Ground, it offers all year round facilities, this is important for all Clubs, having this ability helps with re investment and continual growth of a club.

The problem with Rugby League clubs is the business models, for me some clubs lack good business acumen.

Too many quick fixes and fingers in the air!!!

#59 Dave T

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:33 PM

And how would Warrington have built to their current position without the millions pumped in via Moran's "sponsorship"

How many clubs manage a profit without significant money from directors either via "sponsorship" or loans?

The 1.4 isn't just on wages for players, there are so many other costs involved in running a club, not least getting to away games, rent of stadium, back room staff etc.

I would have added marketing but that's not been a significant cost at Salford in recent years.

We hear of the vast sums that JW has allegedly pumped into Salford, I would suggest that it is more than Moran at Warrington.
AFAIK he certainly doesn't have to pump in hundreds of thousands of pounds a year into the club to balance the books like is required at some clubs.

Either way, this isn't a Salford v Wire thread, this is a thread about Moon and the position Salford now find themselves in.

With regards to the £1.4m - I'm well aware that there are other overheads, but then that is where clubs need to improve their income streams, many are really struggling in this area. If you can;t get the money in, you can't put a SL strength team on the paddock.

#60 The Parksider

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:38 PM

How many clubs manage a profit without significant money from directors either via "sponsorship" or loans?

The £1.4 isn't just on wages for players, there are so many other costs involved in running a club, not least getting to away games, rent of stadium, back room staff etc.

I would have added marketing but that's not been a significant cost at Salford in recent years.


Of course you have that spot on. Most successful SL clubs turn over over £4,000,000 some well over.

The SKY subsidy of £1.3M isn't just added to the £300K the club could afford for Championship wages and hey presto all SL clubs can meet the £1.6M cap and those that don't are just "badly managed", and those that fail are evidence that the licensing committee is inept.

To compete and keep players in SL you need to play the game and that is pay full cap AND afford all the ancillary expenses that outweigh wages, a principle that SL should be congratulated on not condemned for. We already know why Salford don't do this, because they didn't get the fans before the new ground and didn't get them after it either.

Unlike a couple of other clubs Salford's ace is Peel Holdings. Of course whilst all the shennanigans over the detail of the deal drag on Salford's playing roster declines, but if Peel want Salford I am sure it won't be so they can enjoy next season. The investment has to be long term, unlike Neil Hudgells investment in HKR.

Take heart also in Crusaders and Wakefield who had virtually no team weeks before the season started and they did relatively OK.

What matters most of all is Peel being on board to make up the shortfall between what Salford can afford and what they need to afford to have all the elements of an SL club in place. There are two years to go before two, probably three SL clubs will get booted out for a possible 12 club Superleague with Toulouse.

The licensing commitee will almost certainly pick the clubs who can pay full cap and afford all the ancillary expenses including marketing.

So what if Moon is one of a procession of signings now walking away from the club. There is one big game player that is poised to sign up, and for Salford and their future that is the only big game player they really need now.

I'd wait whilst the deal comes to a conclusion. If the big new player comes on board then get yer season ticket and enjoy. If the deal falls through then goodbye Superleague, however the Championship's a great competition.

Edited by The Parksider, 22 November 2012 - 01:40 PM.






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