57 replies to this topic

[Middlefordiddle]

the "trees" are only 15-20 years old...its not a aincent woodland....its over grown wasteland....the area can be landscaped properly and the "trees" replanted or replaced with proper trees.....not overgrown weeds.

Garden Suburbs became a Conservation area on 1/9/1988. The trees, as I said earlier might have a protection order, as they have been there that long. Also, did anything come of that Ecological search for the Badger sett that was supposed to be there?.

[philipw]

Garden Suburbs became a Conservation area on 1/9/1988. The trees, as I said earlier might have a protection order, as they have been there that long. Also, did anything come of that Ecological search for the Badger sett that was supposed to be there?.

http://www.roughyeds.co.uk/latest-news/major-breakthrough-on-whitebank/

[saints10coach]

I dont think that anyone who as ever supported the club wants it to go under. Its what has happened to the club and the way it is run thats the problem.

The policy that the rugby league baffles me in that they help some clubs but not others.

They stopped Bradford going under until a buyer could be found. But we all know that clubs in SLare looked at in a different light than the championship clubs.

As for Rochdale did not the RFL take some security from the ground.

Rochdale are now run by the fans in a type of co-operative not by a limited companies with directors.

Oldham when we had a committee never had the problems we have today.

Playing Devil’s advocate you could look at your first point like this. It is no secret that most clubs under the RL banner are not financially well of to say the least. Our club has had more obstacles to overcome than most, says to me that to get us to the position we are in and the position we are ready to go to that at least some things must be being done right, with regards to the running of the club. I doubt not many if any clubs have faced the adversity that we have had to overcome since 1997.
With regards to Bradford, I think the RFL will be helping a lot of clubs in these austere times, without making big noises about it. Financially I do not mind clubs receiving help on certain matters. But I disagree with clubs holding on to their league status because of their following. I do not think Salford have had the same rallying call from all of SL, because they do not bring as many fans as Bradford so it does not matter if they are dropped from the top tier to the other clubs in there.
Yes Rochdale are being run by a Cooperative but it has not yet been proven as a successful model as to run a club by. Also I think time has clouded your memory with regards to a committee run club. In those days Oldham were constantly in debt and flew by the seat of teir pants, they also had the luxury of selling players to raise money, something that is not available to today’s club administrators. Also during that period they sold off land to make money which was the start of the decline.

[HARRYRUBY]

Playing Devil’s advocate you could look at your first point like this. It is no secret that most clubs under the RL banner are not financially well of to say the least. Our club has had more obstacles to overcome than most, says to me that to get us to the position we are in and the position we are ready to go to that at least some things must be being done right, with regards to the running of the club. I doubt not many if any clubs have faced the adversity that we have had to overcome since 1997.
With regards to Bradford, I think the RFL will be helping a lot of clubs in these austere times, without making big noises about it. Financially I do not mind clubs receiving help on certain matters. But I disagree with clubs holding on to their league status because of their following. I do not think Salford have had the same rallying call from all of SL, because they do not bring as many fans as Bradford so it does not matter if they are dropped from the top tier to the other clubs in there.
Yes Rochdale are being run by a Cooperative but it has not yet been proven as a successful model as to run a club by. Also I think time has clouded your memory with regards to a committee run club. In those days Oldham were constantly in debt and flew by the seat of teir pants, they also had the luxury of selling players to raise money, something that is not available to today’s club administrators. Also during that period they sold off land to make money which was the start of the decline.

Apart from the years that Oldham Bears operated Oldham RLFC never had the amount of debts that the club as now without it being secured by assets.
In the days of the committee the debt never exceeded their total value of assets. The club ( a members club run by its elected committee) had an overdraft with the bank and other creditors .In 1987 when the committee club finished their total debts were less than £200k but their assets were worth a lot more.

The committee did not sell off any of the land that they owned it was transfered to the Limited company which eventually became Oldham Rugby plc and traded as the Bears. It was that company that sold off all the land which covered about 12.5 acres. It was that company that decided to move from Watersheddings despite their being an agreement in place to stay there and have it rebuilt year by year. All the members got for selling their assets was a £1.00 share.

Oldham RLFC as a members club existed for over 100 years. It was generally well run and its assets always exceeded its liabilities.

It is not my memory of the committee club that is clouded but your knowledge of the facts.

The members club was owned by the fans and run by the fans through their appointed committee.

The Cooperative now running Rochdale Hornets is the same as a members club and to say it as not been proven as a succesful model in the way to run a rugby club is like saying that Rugby Football league for the first 100 years of their history were very badly run. Quite a lot of the clubs were run as and by a committee. It was managed with genuine passion by the fans who could and often did change their committee on a yearly basis. It was their club, their assets and they who were responsible for the debts.

The position that the club is in at the present time is that of a very large debt covered by few assets which does not imply success.

And as this is a situation relevant to most clubs run by a company which appears to be the best senario.

I dont know how long you have been watching the roughyeds but your knowledge of facts prior to 1987 is somewhat lacking.

Rochdale Hornets have gone from a company which had severe financial problems to a cooperative run by members which appears to be doing alright ( I am not a member so its a presumption on my part). They are taking a well trodden way of running the club which history as proved works.

Time alone will tell whether they are as succesfull as other clubs historical past.

[davewd]

I attended the members meeting in the social club and the idea off turning the members club into a PLC .With hindsight i think it was a bad move.There were plans off the stadium upgrade on show, it looked ok with otherideas being mad.I still have my piece of paper with my shares Not worth the paper its written on.All we unknowing did was give the club to the committee who were running the club at the time.That was the begining of Oldhams problems. As a members club we had assets.

[davewd]

IT should read ----IT looked ok with other ideas being MADE Freudian slip.

[HARRYRUBY]

Davewd

By the unknowing I presume you mean the members.

The club was run by the committee who were themeselves members. As you will recall there was a proposal for four people to take
over as directors and work alongside the committee for a few months and then take over by themeselves. That did not happen. As soon as the vote was made in their favour they assumed all responsibility for the running of the club.The committee had no further input as to the running of the club from that night they were not wanted

They did not want any member to help them

As you say they got the club by giving out worthless founder shares.

They had big plans that included attracting millionaires and big business on board by seeting up a Public Limited Company that did not materialise and which was flawed from the outset

They existed for ten years got the club back into Div 1 which became SL and finished after being relegated with over £2million pound of debt.

A proud members club over 100 years old with some of the best supporters in the Rugby League ruined by directors in ten years.

History can never be changed

It is for us to learn from so as not to make the same mistakes again.

Edited by HARRYRUBY, 17 December 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[saints10coach]

Harry just to pick up on your reply to mine. £200k in the days when the committee was in charge would be equivalent to at least £1m in today's world. The committee did sell land they sold the training pitch. They also had the luxury of having so many assets to secure loans against as well as the luxury of being able to demand a fee for a player who was contracted to the club for life, not just one season.
Things have moved on beyond recognition from those days.
As I stated previously wait and see before you start championing Rochdale's model as a success.
For what it matters, although I feel it has no relevance, I watched my first game at Watersheddings around 1962.

[HARRYRUBY]

The training pitch was sold after the annual general meeting in 1988 which is when the committee elected by the fans finished. All the running of the club from that night was by those first four directors to run who eventually turned the members club into a Limited Company and then a plc. No elected committee member had any involvement in the sale of the training pitch or any other asset.

Yes the club had assets but borrowed very little apart from the bank overdraft and what was owed to members of the committee and the vice presidents club.

Yes £200k may be equivalent ti £1m today but if you have assets to cover them you have stability. The problem with a lot of clubs today is they have debts not covered by assets and are therefore not stable.

In regard to fees for players ie the transfer situation it was a player that got that changed not the clubs.

I am not championing the Rochdale model as a success as I said only time will tell if they have gone down the right road.

As you say you have been watching Odlham since 1962 answer me this question.

Was the first twenty five years better than the second twenty five years in relation to stability.

[saints10coach]

It has been a roller coaster ride Harry and we have hit the bottom of the dips in both periods. the mid 70's were pretty dismal as I remember. Rochdale whether it was the right route or no, it was the only route for them.
More and more clubs now are playing at rented accommodation and it is one of the biggest strains on resources. Not exactly sure what our agreement is, but think it involves us buying the council owned bit over time. Which in my opinion could leave us in a very strong position.
The Bosman ruling has cost us and a lot of other clubs dearly, and because of it, gone are the days of having your favourite player to shout on up to and beyond his testimonial year for ten years service.
But that is the nature of the game and we have to adapt to survive.

[davewd]

Mine was pre 60s

[roughyedspud]

mine was 1985..........shall we see who can pee the highest next???

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

mine was 1985..........shall we see who can pee the highest next???

well my Dad got told off by a Bobby cos I was dropping Fag ends on people's heads from the top of the Hutchins stand in 1963 and I bet he was bigger than your Dad. Heh heh heh.

[roughyedspud]

funnily enough in my first game,against cas i think?, i got in trouble for climbing up the floodlight pylon on the waterhead side of the main stand..i got a good 20ft up...had a cracking view :lol;

[higgy]

well my Dad got told off by a Bobby cos I was dropping Fag ends on people's heads from the top of the Hutchins stand in 1963 and I bet he was bigger than your Dad. Heh heh heh.

Could be the Bobby was my Dad, he was on duty there quite often so I got a freebie when he was.

[HARRYRUBY]

In my earlier posts I said that the committee finished in 1988. It was in fact 1987 I apologise for the mistake.

The RFL by not supporting all clubs as equal and being selective have caused a lot of the problems clubs now have.

Its a fight for survival whichever way it is done.

Its big business and clubs out of SL are not looked as being big clubs but small clubs with supporting roles.

[saints10coach]

Thats the big problem clubs vote for their own interests. SL is now a closed shop the teams in there have made it so. The clubs in the lower tiers have helped along the way by accepting the Leagues shilling to keep quiet and not rock the boat.

[HARRYRUBY]

Thats the big problem clubs vote for their own interests. SL is now a closed shop the teams in there have made it so. The clubs in the lower tiers have helped along the way by accepting the Leagues shilling to keep quiet and not rock the boat.

Could not agree more.

The gap between SL and the championship is getting wider and wider.

Introduce a transfer system again so CH clubs can get some money.

Its still done in Football so why not RFL again.