96 replies to this topic

[Saint Billinge]

Government are proposing a minimum price for a unit of alcohol, which would include targeting the older, wealthier generation who it seems are drinking more. I cannot get my head around the fact that this would have little impact on those with a healthy bank balance! Would crime go up in order to fund the buying of alcohol, just like it does to obtain drugs?

If the levels do go down then it could cut hospital admissions but then possibly see more pubs closed that is happening on an alarming rate, with some saying it would be a small price to pay. As always, the more moderate drinkers would be penalised. For me, I have my doubts that putting up prices will drastically cut the reliance on alcohol, either through addiction or socialising in excess.

[Griff9of13]

I have to disagree on one point; minimum pricing of alcohol is seen by some as a good thing for pubs not a bad one. It will lead to a levelling of prices between pubs and supermarkets who now often sell cheap booze below cost price.

Minimum pricing is supported by CAMRA. See here.

Edited by Griff9of13, 28 November 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Ex-Kirkholt]

High taxation on tobacco only seems to have had a moderate effect - I would say that many, many years of education and deaths has brought smoking rates down

[Severus]

Have to agree with Griff. It is much more desirable to have people drink socially in pubs than at home. The pub landlords need to be given a break. The pub is an important part of our culture.

[Johnoco]

Pubs are disappearing and if it carries on as it is will become rarities. Within walking distance of my house I can think of...(adds up) 5 pubs that have disappeared with most remaining struggling on, and that's within about a mile or so radius. Go further and the number is much bigger.

[Ex-Kirkholt]

Have to agree with Griff. It is much more desirable to have people drink socially in pubs than at home. The pub landlords need to be given a break. The pub is an important part of our culture.

From what I hear, pub landlords need to be given a break from their breweries/pub owners who are constantly upping prices/rents, reducing staff hours whilst expecting pubs to be open longer etc. When a landlord leaves the business pubs can stend empty not through lack of trade but through the inability to attract new landlords/managers.

Edited by Ex-Kirkholt, 28 November 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[JohnM]

Once upon a time , there were no pubs. Then there were over 100,000, now there are not so many. That'e life.
Once upon a time, there were no coffee houses, then there were lots, and now there are more than ever. That, too is life.

In 1900, there were nearly 6,500 breweries operating in the UK, a number that would fall to 142 by 1980. These breweries served 102,000 pubs in England and Wales at the turn of the century, a figure that would drop to 66,000 by 1967. see http://www.nationala...g/food/beer.htm

In Totnes, a town of fewer than 8,000 there are 41 different places to buy a cup of coffee.

Also, see what " Beer Writer of the Year" ( second best job, first best job being Beer DRINKER of the Year!) has to say: http://petebrown.blo...arket-beer.html

Listen: the idea of minimum pricing worries me a little. I don't believe that there is a direct link between Britain's supposed binge drinking problem and the widespread availability of cheap booze. And I don't lay sole blame for the plight of the pub at the door of supermarkets. OK?

[gingerjon]

Shame it'll be a minimum price rather than a duty - more money to the brewers rather than the government.

[Johnoco]

I don't get the coffee thing. Its cheaper to go to the pub than get a few cups of coffee... WTF?. Its a total scam imo.

A minimum price for booze will not stop the pass artists either. An alky I used to go to school with died a few years back, he used to drink toilet duck and brasso strained through bread. You will not stop people drinking if they really want, ever.

[Wolford6]

I don't think it will make much difference to the trouble-causers. The bravado and gang mentality that causes the flare-ups will still be there after three drinks as it is after six drinks.

The people affected the most will be single parents, senior citizens and the unemployed. However, like Johnoco, I hope it means more people go to pubs and clubs and enable these establishments to sustain their undervalued social contribution.

[gingerjon]

I don't get the coffee thing. Its cheaper to go to the pub than get a few cups of coffee... WTF?. Its a total scam imo.

A minimum price for booze will not stop the pass artists either. An alky I used to go to school with died a few years back, he used to drink toilet duck and brasso strained through bread. You will not stop people drinking if they really want, ever.

Minimum pricing is not designed to hit either people who are already dependent or the few-a-week drinkers who won't notice the cost. It's the few cans a day drinkers, the half a bottle after the kids have gone to bed people.

It also probably won't make any difference to the costs at the pub compared to Starbucks.

The government are setting the target low: 700 lives saved is small compared to the figures I'd heard beforehand.

[JohnM]

Maybe the brewers will use it more effectively than the government.

Isn't the idea, though, to stop people from being free to do as they wish with their own money buying cheap alcohol, so the breweries will not gain if they sell less beer. As there is widespread belief that the supermarkets sell this stuff at a loss, anyway stopping them doing so will only add to the profits of Tesco, the modern day equivalent of the hated 18th and 19th century mill owners.

[gingerjon]

Isn't the idea, though, to stop people from being free to do as they wish with their own money buying cheap alcohol,

Nope, it's to stop people killing themselves and hurting others.

You may disagree with the method but the people who have been pushing for this (coincidentally the people who have to run the liver units and A&E departments) are sincere in their motives.

[Griff9of13]

Meanwhile Alcohol Concern are urging us all to give up for the whole of January.

[gingerjon]

Meanwhile Alcohol Concern are urging us all to give up for the whole of January.

I've signed up!

[Futtocks]

Once upon a time , there were no pubs. Then there were over 100,000, now there are not so many. That'e life.

All the pubs in my area have closed. Mind you, two were pretty lairy places which won't be missed, and the other was a gigantic Wetherspoons, opened in an area which couldn't support such a place. There's a large Irish contingent, but they all head down the road to Kilburn or Cricklewood for the Irish pubs there. The Oriental, Asian and Jewish sectors of the local population aren't exactly avid pub-goers either.

I know a couple of people who run or work in pubs, and they say that things are actually pretty healthy for those places that are prepared to make the extra effort and offer a really excellent experience, be that beer choice, atmosphere, food, live music, no music, whatever. They say lot of the pubs that are going to the wall just aren't all that good. I realise that last bit is a bit of a blanket statement, BTW.

[JohnM]

Nope, it's to stop people killing themselves and hurting others.

You may disagree with the method but the people who have been pushing for this (coincidentally the people who have to run the liver units and A&E departments) are sincere in their motives.

but possibly misguided in their solution. Perhaps those who so strongly advocate this as the solution should agree to be accountable if it fails. That would be a test and would set a great example for politicians to follow. I think it was a guy called Eric Appleby who was on R5L this morning who was absolutely certain this was the right policy. No room for doubt. He was certain. Want a bet , Eric?

[High Peak Rhino]

I know a couple of people who run or work in pubs, and they say that things are actually pretty healthy for those places that are prepared to make the extra effort and offer a really excellent experience, be that beer choice, atmosphere, food, live music, no music, whatever. They say lot of the pubs that are going to the wall just aren't all that good. I realise that last bit is a bit of a blanket statement, BTW.

Completely agree there are some great new pubs springing up offering a choice / range of beer unimaginable to the normal punter. Whenever I manage to call in on such a place there never seems to be a shortage of folk buying the beer.

[gingerjon]

No room for doubt

If you want to stop people dying of liver disease or reduce alcohol-fueled crime what are your alternatives?

Bearing in mind your tax dollars pay to clean up the mess.

[Phil]

If you want to stop people dying of liver disease or reduce alcohol-fueled crime what are your alternatives?

Reduce the discount in the members bar at Westminster?