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#21 oldrover

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

They do.

The rule is (apparently - and I've only read it here) that only "twinned" clubs can have DR players.

Thundergaz appears to want part of the rule but not the rest.

Not that he wants DR players anyway (quite rightly). So what's the problem? :mellow:

it should be available to all. whether they choose to use it or not is up to them, just like the feeder system is.
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#22 Griff

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:34 AM

it should be available to all. whether they choose to use it or not is up to them, just like the feeder system is.


Well, there we disagree. It shouldn't be available to anyone. <_<
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#23 oldrover

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:51 AM

Well, there we disagree. It shouldn't be available to anyone. <_<

how can you have teams in the same division playing under different rules. Oh sorry, this is rugby league
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#24 oldrover

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:54 AM

sorry, the penny's dropped now :rolleyes:
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#25 Griff

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:55 AM

how can you have teams in the same division playing under different rules. Oh sorry, this is rugby league



To be honest, I don't see the same conflict and TG and you do. If you want DR, you can twin. But you don't have to. It's a choice, not a different rule.

Edited by Griff, 30 November 2012 - 10:56 AM.

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#26 intheshed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:27 PM

not the point. rules should apply across the board. this is another one we will have dificulty justifying to followers of other sports


On the assumption that feeder clubs can only take DRs from their parent club I don't really see any double standard or difference in rules. It would essentially be saying that DR is available to all but you can only take from one club and must declare which club you intend to take players from in advance. Naturally the best solution would be to drop the system altogether.

#27 Griff

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:30 PM

On the assumption that feeder clubs can only take DRs from their parent club I don't really see any double standard or difference in rules. It would essentially be saying that DR is available to all but you can only take from one club and must declare which club you intend to take players from in advance. Naturally the best solution would be to drop the system altogether.


No, you're right. It's like getting a penalty. You can tap it or you can kick for goal. Your choice - not two rules.
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#28 thundergaz

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:02 PM

No, you're right. It's like getting a penalty. You can tap it or you can kick for goal. Your choice - not two rules.



What i was getting at griff is what the RFL are saying is if you dont do what we want you to do and team up with a SL team we will stop you from doing etc.Im not that bothered about the DR thing im just saying this is probably going to be the start of us teams who have ambition to continually get punished because we are the rogues according to the RFL and they dont like it when they dont get their own way.

#29 Griff

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:09 PM

What i was getting at griff is what the RFL are saying is if you dont do what we want you to do and team up with a SL team we will stop you from doing etc.Im not that bothered about the DR thing im just saying this is probably going to be the start of us teams who have ambition to continually get punished because we are the rogues according to the RFL and they dont like it when they dont get their own way.


Yeah, but is that an issue ? How are you punished by not being allowed to do something you don't want to do ? :huh:

If you wanted DR, you'd twin. And there's nothing to stop you doing it.

The reason Dr Tubbs doesn't want DR is he doesn't know whether these players are available until the last minute. They often don't train with us. It's not a good arrangement. No doubt Daryl and Rhino think the same.
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#30 thundergaz

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:30 PM

Yeah, but is that an issue ? How are you punished by not being allowed to do something you don't want to do ? :huh:

If you wanted DR, you'd twin. And there's nothing to stop you doing it.

The reason Dr Tubbs doesn't want DR is he doesn't know whether these players are available until the last minute. They often don't train with us. It's not a good arrangement. No doubt Daryl and Rhino think the same.


Your not getting my point griff. I was saying that this will be the start of things that we won't be able to do because we haven't twinned. I agree we don't need the DR or Want it. But teams like barrow who haven't twinned who probably will need or want it are being punished because they don't want to twin and want to be barrow RLFC and not say Wigan B team I just think it's wrong that's all.

#31 Griff

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:39 PM

Your not getting my point griff. I was saying that this will be the start of things that we won't be able to do because we haven't twinned. I agree we don't need the DR or Want it. But teams like barrow who haven't twinned who probably will need or want it are being punished because they don't want to twin and want to be barrow RLFC and not say Wigan B team I just think it's wrong that's all.


No mate. I don't get your point.

You can have DR players. The price you pay is twinning.

I still say it's a choice which you consciously make and I think the penalty analogy in post 27 is absolutely relevant.

Punished ? No, absolutely not.

Whether it's the start of something .... we'll have to see.

Edited by Griff, 30 November 2012 - 01:40 PM.

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#32 oldrover

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:04 PM

No mate. I don't get your point.

You can have DR players. The price you pay is twinning.

I still say it's a choice which you consciously make and I think the penalty analogy in post 27 is absolutely relevant.

Punished ? No, absolutely not.

Whether it's the start of something .... we'll have to see.

the penalty anology is nonsense. also last season, any club could take a DR player. now the rule only applies to feeder clubs. why should we become a feeder club and sign up for all the other stuff just to get something we had last year. independent clubs have had this choice taken away from them.
as for the penalty thingy, feeder clubs still have the tap and the kick, independents can now only take a tap.
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#33 Griff

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:46 PM

the penalty anology is nonsense. also last season, any club could take a DR player. now the rule only applies to feeder clubs. why should we become a feeder club and sign up for all the other stuff just to get something we had last year. independent clubs have had this choice taken away from them.
as for the penalty thingy, feeder clubs still have the tap and the kick, independents can now only take a tap.


Au contraire, old rover. You can still kick for goal if you twin up. Your (club's) choice.

And as for the rules changing ... what's big news about that ? Rules change every ten minutes in Rugby League.
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#34 Keith T

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:25 PM

During last season a dual registered player was an Under 23 year old from a SL club registered with a Championship club as well as his parent SL club. The SL club at that time also ran Under 18 and Under 20 teams and in some cases an Under 23 team.

This season clubs that have twinned with a SL club can get the benefit of not only players Under 23 but also older fringe players of the SL club. As far as I am aware any players that the SL club allow to go to the Championship club will be there for longer periods than as been the case with some under the previous dual registration system, which will be an improvement and allow Championship coaches to select their teams knowing that players will be available.

Clubs that are not twinned with a SL club will be able to loan players from any SL club but it is pretty obvious that the players they loan will have been offered to the SL clubs twinned club, so players may not be first choice for the Championship wanting to loan them. Loan players can be recalled easier than the way players at a twinned club could be if what is being said is correct.

I don't like the twinning idea because I can see it causing unrest at clubs. The Championship coaches, despite what they say about picking who will play, will be under pressure from the SL club to give the SL players game time and that can only be at the expense of his own clubs players. Town last season had 3 dual reg players from HKR. Two of the players couldn't stand the travelling from Hull to Workington and told their SL club they didn't want to go again after 1 home game and we never saw them again. One of those two, the following week, started playing for Batley on dual reg!!!! The one lad who stayed with Town all season, Dave Petersen, was runner-up in the Championship 1 Young Player of the Year award and is now plying his trade with Mackay Cutters in Australia.

I don't think anyone knows what the rules are for this twinning as clubs are making their own arrangements by the sound of things. Batley's players are being included in the Giants BUPA scheme, whilst other clubs are not getting such benefit. Others clubs can go and train with the SL club and take advantage of their better facilities but what about clubs like Town twinned with Widnes. How often do you think we will be able to take advantgae of Widnes' facilities, it would be like another away match just to use their I-pitch.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#35 intheshed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

During last season a dual registered player was an Under 23 year old from a SL club registered with a Championship club as well as his parent SL club. The SL club at that time also ran Under 18 and Under 20 teams and in some cases an Under 23 team.

This season clubs that have twinned with a SL club can get the benefit of not only players Under 23 but also older fringe players of the SL club. As far as I am aware any players that the SL club allow to go to the Championship club will be there for longer periods than as been the case with some under the previous dual registration system, which will be an improvement and allow Championship coaches to select their teams knowing that players will be available.

Clubs that are not twinned with a SL club will be able to loan players from any SL club but it is pretty obvious that the players they loan will have been offered to the SL clubs twinned club, so players may not be first choice for the Championship wanting to loan them. Loan players can be recalled easier than the way players at a twinned club could be if what is being said is correct.

I don't like the twinning idea because I can see it causing unrest at clubs. The Championship coaches, despite what they say about picking who will play, will be under pressure from the SL club to give the SL players game time and that can only be at the expense of his own clubs players. Town last season had 3 dual reg players from HKR. Two of the players couldn't stand the travelling from Hull to Workington and told their SL club they didn't want to go again after 1 home game and we never saw them again. One of those two, the following week, started playing for Batley on dual reg!!!! The one lad who stayed with Town all season, Dave Petersen, was runner-up in the Championship 1 Young Player of the Year award and is now plying his trade with Mackay Cutters in Australia.

I don't think anyone knows what the rules are for this twinning as clubs are making their own arrangements by the sound of things. Batley's players are being included in the Giants BUPA scheme, whilst other clubs are not getting such benefit. Others clubs can go and train with the SL club and take advantage of their better facilities but what about clubs like Town twinned with Widnes. How often do you think we will be able to take advantgae of Widnes' facilities, it would be like another away match just to use their I-pitch.


Would agree with the vast majority of that, one bit I don't follow is the suggestion that loan players will be easier to recall than DRs. Whilst the new system, which limits the number of DRs who can play rather than the number you can register, makes it unlikely that any player will have his dual registration cancelled, in practical terms they can be recalled from and/or released back to the champs club on a weekly basis.

Edited by intheshed, 30 November 2012 - 03:43 PM.


#36 petesmithfan

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:01 PM

No mate. I don't get your point.

You can have DR players. The price you pay is twinning.

I still say it's a choice which you consciously make and I think the penalty analogy in post 27 is absolutely relevant.

Punished ? No, absolutely not.

Whether it's the start of something .... we'll have to see.


Yeah its all about choice ! and the RFL are in effect saying do you want bumming hard or soft. Yep its all about choice :rolleyes:

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#37 Keith T

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

Would agree with the vast majority of that, one bit I don't follow is the suggestion that loan players will be easier to recall than DRs. Whilst the new system, which limits the number of DRs who can play rather than the number you can register, makes it unlikely that any player will have his dual registration cancelled, in practical terms they can be recalled from and/or released back to the champs club on a weekly basis.


As I understand it, a twinned club can have up to 5 players from the SL club dual registered. These are likely to be not exactly the closest fringe players to getting a game in the SL team if it is to be believed what some coaches are saying that they will have the benefit of these players for several weeks at a time, etc, not on a week to week basis, which would not allow for any team planning by the Championship club. Clubs are also allowed to loan players and I see these as being more likely to be recalled by the SL club when injuries, suspensions, etc, strike.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#38 intheshed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:41 PM

As I understand it, a twinned club can have up to 5 players from the SL club dual registered. These are likely to be not exactly the closest fringe players to getting a game in the SL team if it is to be believed what some coaches are saying that they will have the benefit of these players for several weeks at a time, etc, not on a week to week basis, which would not allow for any team planning by the Championship club. Clubs are also allowed to loan players and I see these as being more likely to be recalled by the SL club when injuries, suspensions, etc, strike.


I think this is where the spin and lack of information comes in. As I understand it the rule will be a maximum of 5 DR or loan players in the 17 players selected for any game but no overall limit on the number of players who are dual registered.

Unless there is a also a change to the loan rules I'm not convinced SL clubs will seek to get fringe 1st teamers game time via the loan system, I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure loans currently don't permit recall within the first month.

Edited by intheshed, 30 November 2012 - 04:48 PM.


#39 oldrover

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:32 PM

Au contraire, old rover. You can still kick for goal if you twin up. Your (club's) choice.

And as for the rules changing ... what's big news about that ? Rules change every ten minutes in Rugby League.

you don't get it so i'll leave it.
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#40 Griff

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:02 PM

Yeah its all about choice ! and the RFL are in effect saying do you want bumming hard or soft. Yep its all about choice :rolleyes:


It's a scandal that the RFL won't let you do something you don't want to do.

Is it just about wanting to moan about how everyone's against Fev ? :lol:
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