538 replies to this topic

[shaun mc]

Didn't Wakey and Crusaders pull together decent sides at the last minute??

Plenty of time yet shaun!!

And Crusaders were full of legit players?
Its easy to sign a side containing players that have no right to work in the UK.
I hope Salford don't follow that route.

[41hound]

I wonder if Salford can beat Halifax's record of 2003. They would have to do something like cheat the cap to get minus points though, so it may be hard.

Break the cap! It would be worth the points deduction to see us able to do that .- the only caps being broken will be the ones being handed round for donations, hopefully bursting with loose change ... . Bucket collections outside Tesco etc... being organised by fans for next week, if the supporters meeting on Monday does not get good news.

It might be hard to get minus points - but our club is very special and has proved capable of any kind of absurdity in the last few years. However at the moment there will be no club for people to laugh at anyway I hope it doesn't come to that ...

Edited by 41hound, 15 December 2012 - 09:41 AM.

[Johnoco]

All the best hound, hope you get a few quid.

[Ackroman]

It's all on someone else's money SKY, creditors, local rich man, sponsors benevolence etc.

Perhaps all clubs SHOULD go back to part time and balance their books against turnstyle income??

It would be more honourable.

How you can use the absolute farce that was Crusaders as an example for Salford to follow and then justify it by claiming that running a club at an unsustainable loss is perfectly fine?

Advising anyone to run an enterprise illegally demonstrates you are neither a solicitor or an accountant but you do a fine interpretation of a merchant banker.

[Ackroman]

It's all on someone else's money SKY, creditors, local rich man, sponsors benevolence etc.

Perhaps all clubs SHOULD go back to balancing their books against income??

It would be LEGAL.

FIXED

[keighley]

Whats mind numbingly boring is your wishful thinking that RL can push and promote itself to such an extent it will turn everyone on and people will take the game up and watch the game and championship clubs will grow and flower into professional clubs etc etc etc.

Get a history of RL book and read the reality of the games struggles from day one to today. 126 years of struggle with another 126 to come.

As for YOU saying London junior RL is a "success story" my word how you can do an about turn and a back flip if it suits you?

The south east is a massive area such that we may just be able to sustain a junior RL big enough to feed a superleague club.

Whilst that is a success for us, what we will achieve is miniscule against what Soccer and RU achieve in London.

You know full well we are not a success in London but we have found enough interest across a very big place to make having an SL club there worthwhile.A success relative to our size.

All this "can be done" nada nada nada isn't debate. It's fantasy Rugby League.

Please can we have an additional forum on here for the fantasists??

Lets go into business together, I can formulate a sensible and realistic business plan for us whilst you close your eyes and dream we'll be marks and spencers.

After all your ranting, the fact remains London went from nothing to producing juniors from numerous RL teams in the face of an overwhelming soccer presence. I don't know where you get the idea from that I don't acknowledge the tremendous success, and it is a success even though it dosn't suit you to acknowledge that after lauding it the heavens in numerous other threads. I have always agreed with the tremendous growth of RL in London. The dispute I have with you is that that growth is as a result of London Broncos presence even though it is not anywhere near their base of operations.

So, if it can be done in London, the post stating that there is potential to develop RL In Wythenshaw, which wasn't me as I am not even sure where Wythenshaw is, cannot be just rubbished as being impratctical and un doable. The evidence is many parts of the UK is that it can be done. If it can be done in London, Wales and the midlands, why cannot it not be done in a suburb of Manchester.

Furthermore, don't lecture me on RL history. I have read practically every book there is to read and am well versed in it. I am aware that the game has had to struggle. It would probably be a struggle to develop the game in Wythenshaw. It dosn't mean it can't be done.

As for going into business with you, I don't think so. Your idea of taking a risk to move the business forward would probably only go as far as opening the shutters fearing robbery when it was done. We come from different philosphies altogether, you and I.

[keighley]

1. The SL clubs struggle because they have to pay £1.6M wages and turn over £4M+ with only £1.2M of SKY money subsidy.

2. The CC clubs struggle because they have to pay £300K wages and turn over £1M.

Business wise it's a bigger struggle to find the money for Superleague.

The lower down the leagues you go the easier it is to survive.

Somehow championship clubs are worse at surviving than SL clubs.

But let's not let the facts get in the way of another dig at Superleague.

1. And the fact that they want to keep spending that amount instead of spending what they can afford has got a large number of them into their present precarious financial status, including Salford.

2. After you have posted at length about no self repecting investor will ever touch CC clubs, even though Fev have proved you colossally wrong, now its easier for CC clubs to survive because they manage their books and SL don't. You change your arguments more often than I change my socks when and as it suits your particular diatribe on any given day.

[keighley]

SO that's Bradford making up the numbers on half the funding and Salford making up the numbers as well.

Can't wait.

There will be a warm welcome at Cougar Park if you survive and have to drop down.

[The Parksider]

And Crusaders were full of legit players?
Its easy to sign a side containing players that have no right to work in the UK.
I hope Salford don't follow that route.

OK they'll have to follow Wakefields route.....

[The Parksider]

The absolute farce that was Crusaders

Steady, their children Scorpions and North Wales Crusaders may be listening.

[The Parksider]

1. And the fact that they want to keep spending that amount instead of spending what they can afford has got a large number of them into their present precarious financial status, including Salford.

2. After you have posted at length about no self repecting investor will ever touch CC clubs, even though Fev have proved you colossally wrong, now its easier for CC clubs to survive because they manage their books and SL don't.

1. the point is ALL clubs have that tendency to spend what they cannot afford, usually because if they don't do that they can end up going the other way something I have suggested many many times with Fax as a great example and Bulls too when crowds nearly halved. If clubs cut costs the crowds don't come.

It's very very simple but "whoooosh" over your head because it doesn't suit.

You single out SL clubs for a criticism that can be levelled at all club........Bias.

2. Whooosh - Fev lose money every year dontcha know and Fev haven't proved anything but I hope they get their chance to do some old fashioned proving in SL 2015.

Again you single out a loss making CC club as a Paragon of virtue......Bias

Care to dig the hole deeper?

[The Parksider]

So, if it can be done in London, the post stating that there is potential to develop RL In Wythenshaw, which wasn't me as I am not even sure where Wythenshaw is, cannot be just rubbished as being impratctical and un doable. The evidence is many parts of the UK is that it can be done. If it can be done in London, Wales and the midlands, why cannot it not be done in a suburb of Manchester.

There's 80,000+ people in Wythenshawe

There's 8,000,000+ people in London.

London is 100 times bigger and so has been able to provide enough interest in the game for some London junior clubs to spring up. There's people who come from RL areas both at home and abroad in London too. London also has a history of RL from when Great Britain played at Chelsea and of course the 1930's London club and SARLA. etc etc. Then of course Fulham stirred interest as did London Broncos etc etc (Yes I know London Broncos has nothing to do with RL at any other level in London and yes you know I think that patently absurd)

Wythenshawe is Sale and RU country with no history of RL but I am sure that if a development officer beavered away long enough he may get a few schools playing I suppose.

You have again dived in without looking at some facts, and realities.

Yes we are very strong RL wise per head of population in places like Leeds (1864) Hull (1865) Wigan (1873) etc but we will never be that strong in any new area like erm "Withenshawe". History has timed us out and soccer rules the roost, and playing rugby is something that has been in decline as the modern world evolves.

Therefore to take the game to new areas we need to develop it across whole areas like London and the south east, South Wales, the North East etc. That's the only way we can get enough resources for a toe hold in new areas.

You may read your history books but you don't seem to have a think about it all, you just dive back at me and declare me wrong, so when it comes to us "going into business together" then in the immortal words of Dragon's Den....

I'm out.

[cardifcrusaderrob]

I know it maybe pedantic but the players for Crusaders who were deported had the right visas for when the team played in the SL, just not in the years in NL1& 2

[keighley]

1. the point is ALL clubs have that tendency to spend what they cannot afford, usually because if they don't do that they can end up going the other way something I have suggested many many times with Fax as a great example and Bulls too when crowds nearly halved. If clubs cut costs the crowds don't come.

It's very very simple but "whoooosh" over your head because it doesn't suit.

You single out SL clubs for a criticism that can be levelled at all club........Bias.

2. Whooosh - Fev lose money every year dontcha know and Fev haven't proved anything but I hope they get their chance to do some old fashioned proving in SL 2015.


Again you single out a loss making CC club as a Paragon of virtue......Bias

Care to dig the hole deeper?

!
1. Yeah and if they don't cut costs, they end up like the Bulls, Wakefield and Salford. Whoosh.!

2. I didn'y say they didn't make a loss. I said that they have attracted considerable sponsorship even though, according to your claims, no such thing is possible for a CC club as sponsors only consider Sooper Doopwer league clubs when looking to support RL.

3. Chance would be a fine thing for Fev. It might even be next season of Salford can't sort out their mess and Sky still demand a 14 club competiton. It's an ill wind etc etc

[Just Browny]

Not sure where the Wythenshawe debate came from, but the idea that a statistically significant number of people from there don their Barbour jackets and go to watch Sale is hilarious. Totally different worlds.

[keighley]

There's 80,000+ people in Wythenshawe

There's 8,000,000+ people in London.

London is 100 times bigger and so has been able to provide enough interest in the game for some London junior clubs to spring up. There's people who come from RL areas both at home and abroad in London too. London also has a history of RL from when Great Britain played at Chelsea and of course the 1930's London club and SARLA. etc etc. Then of course Fulham stirred interest as did London Broncos etc etc (Yes I know London Broncos has nothing to do with RL at any other level in London and yes you know I think that patently absurd)

Wythenshawe is Sale and RU country with no history of RL but I am sure that if a development officer beavered away long enough he may get a few schools playing I suppose.

You have again dived in without looking at some facts, and realities.

Yes we are very strong RL wise per head of population in places like Leeds (1864) Hull (1865) Wigan (1873) etc but we will never be that strong in any new area like erm "Withenshawe". History has timed us out and soccer rules the roost, and playing rugby is something that has been in decline as the modern world evolves.

Therefore to take the game to new areas we need to develop it across whole areas like London and the south east, South Wales, the North East etc. That's the only way we can get enough resources for a toe hold in new areas.

You may read your history books but you don't seem to have a think about it all, you just dive back at me and declare me wrong, so when it comes to us "going into business together" then in the immortal words of Dragon's Den....

I'm out.

I didn't propose Wythenshaw. It was another poster who , I would seriously suspect, has more knowledge of the area than me or you. What you propose just files in the face or reality. The evidence is that REL can infiltrate any area of the country and sustain amateur RL, including I would image, Wythenshaw, sale RU or no sale RU. Indeed thr RFL should look at targetting the whole of the Manchester conurbation. It once was fertile ground for RL bjut is regressing seriously.

Coventry were once the pride of English Ru and had a 1st Division soccer club to boot. According to your theories, any chance for RL to grow and develop there had flown the coop years ago. But, hey presto, there are several amateur RL clubs in Coventry, some with juniors, and there will be a CC1 club there next year.

The same goes for Gloucester and Hemel. For goodness sake they are even going to play RL at that holy of holies the Oxford Universty RU ground and pay the players for doing it to boot.

Quoting the fractured and tortuous pre RU ban history of RL in London does not support your argument that RL can only develop in places with a long history of RL. RL has only been a part of the London scene since the 1960's at the very earliest and in any numbers since the 1990s. I might as well claim there is a serious Rl presence in Edinburgh because Wigan, Gateshead and the Magic weekend and Cup final have been played there.

Those people who think they are right all the time are particularly annoying to those of us who are. . Seriously though, I have just as much right to contest your opinions if I think you are wrong as you have and continously do, to contest my ideas.

[Trojan]

Leigh in trouble, Bramley Blackpool and Huyton gone, rochdale and york closed, swinton and hunslet shadows of their former selves. Oldham disaster.

More of the wonderful breathtaking success stories of semi professional Rugby

Bramley, Blackpool Huyton (Runcorn) all shafted by the architect of Super League! It is licensing that's depressing the crowds at sides like Salford. As my friend the Salford fan was saying on Thursday, who's going to turn out and pay good money to watch a meaningless game? A game on which nothing rides?
Since those in favour of lincensing argue that it eliminates risk, lets eliminate it altogether, the RFL could employ a body similar to the old "pools panel" to decide the results of games. We could get rid of the players, the stadiums the lot! Just let Sky charge us to watch the results come in on their network. Problem solved!

[Johnoco]

Doesn't seem like many people were bothering with Runcorn (and variants thereof) regardless of any SL or not.

[keighley]

Doesn't seem like many people were bothering with Runcorn (and variants thereof) regardless of any SL or not.

They once pulled in a five figure crowd for a playoff game when they were in Liverpool pre WW11 but it couldn't be sustained. They went to London and got some decent crowds but that couldn't be sustained either. By the time the end came, It was time to go, no ground, no fans, no hope. Now there was a team who would have really benefitted from a feeder team deal playing as say Widnes A in Runcorn or some such arrangement.

[The Parksider]

The RFL should look at targetting the whole of the Manchester conurbation. It once was fertile ground for RL bjut is regressing seriously.

Of course they should, this was a job for the proposed merged Manchester club, and post refusal to merge became the task of Salford, if Salford wither what resources will be left to do this, to what purpose????

Why has the area regressed????

Wythenshaw was a red herring.

Edited by The Parksider, 15 December 2012 - 03:05 PM.