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Salford Trouble/Salford Takeover


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#281 sweaty craiq

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:35 PM

The decision of Salford council not to help out the Reds looks like cutting your nose off to spite your face. With the demise of the Reds caused partly by their lack of assistance, they will be left with a white elephant of a stadium with only Sale as a tenant and , if they get relegated, which looks likely, no top level team to play in it.

Maybe they could have a re visit of their decision.


I believe the 'rental agreement' will be much friendlier after the club folds, allowing Salford to build again and join SL2 in 2014.

#282 JohnM

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:39 PM

They were a top level team by my definition.


They were in the top 4 in only 4 years out of 20. and that was then in the golden age of our game, before motorways, bypasses, large scale modern housing developments out of town centres, universal TV ownership, large scale personal transport ownership, etc changed the sporting landscape forever.

#283 keighley

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

They were in the top 4 in only 4 years out of 20. and that was then in the golden age of our game, before motorways, bypasses, large scale modern housing developments out of town centres, universal TV ownership, large scale personal transport ownership, etc changed the sporting landscape forever.


They were in the top 10 for ten years in a row. I lived through that era, I was a supporter of the game and I am telling you guys they were considered a top team. If there had been a SL of the top 14 clubs, Oldham would have qualified to be in it. This is in comparison to where they ended up subsequently in Division 2, a yo yo team and subsequent 1 season in the first SL, followed by bakruptcy. resurrection and their current location in CC1. The whole post was about the decline of RL in the Manchester area and, given their league placings and stature in the game in those years they were very much a top team compared to what they became later. I can't believe this is even being questioned

#284 41hound

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

The decision of Salford council not to help out the Reds looks like cutting your nose off to spite your face. With the demise of the Reds caused partly by their lack of assistance, they will be left with a white elephant of a stadium with only Sale as a tenant and , if they get relegated, which looks likely, no top level team to play in it.

Maybe they could have a re visit of their decision.


I think it is too late for that. The council move so slowly and we have until 7th January to have the money - or we get wound up. I think that door is closed. Unfortunately in their decision to not lend us anymore - understandable in the climate of budget cuts - it means they will lose the money we owe them, when we go out of business soon. I think we will have paid back about 20% of the £1.5l loan at most ... We are needing a miracle :unsure:

#285 keighley

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:06 PM

I think it is too late for that. The council move so slowly and we have until 7th January to have the money - or we get wound up. I think that door is closed. Unfortunately in their decision to not lend us anymore - understandable in the climate of budget cuts - it means they will lose the money we owe them, when we go out of business soon. I think we will have paid back about 20% of the £1.5l loan at most ... We are needing a miracle :unsure:


The club needs to go into administration like Bradford and then get the administrator to keep postponing the liquidation date whilst further investors are targeted. It might be a last hope but whilst rhere's life there's etc etc.

#286 JohnM

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:12 PM

I can't believe this is even being questioned

well, it is. a tp team for only 20% of the time. What I find hard to believe is that there is no recognition of the fact that we live in an entirely different world now than we did when you and I were young. There is no going back to some imagined golden age that never existed anyway. In the 1950 and 60s large numbers lived, worked ad recreated within a few miles of Watersheddings. A trip to an away game was an event n itself. Now, there are a number of successful Sl clubs within 30 to 45 minutes reach of town centre Oldham. Only a hard core few are going to watch Oldham when there is so much better on offer just a stones throw away.

#287 41hound

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

The club needs to go into administration like Bradford and then get the administrator to keep postponing the liquidation date whilst further investors are targeted. It might be a last hope but whilst rhere's life there's etc etc.


I dont know if adiminstrators can do much against a winding up order issued in court? And that is what we face in 20 days ...

#288 keighley

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:29 PM

well, it is. a tp team for only 20% of the time. What I find hard to believe is that there is no recognition of the fact that we live in an entirely different world now than we did when you and I were young. There is no going back to some imagined golden age that never existed anyway. In the 1950 and 60s large numbers lived, worked ad recreated within a few miles of Watersheddings. A trip to an away game was an event n itself. Now, there are a number of successful Sl clubs within 30 to 45 minutes reach of town centre Oldham. Only a hard core few are going to watch Oldham when there is so much better on offer just a stones throw away.


Just so, that's what the series of posts were about, the decline of RL in Oldham and why it happened.


#289 Segovia Carpet

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:55 PM

I did not pick up any question of Mr. Wilkinson as regards why isn't he and fellow directors going to bankroll the club for the £600K through this time if there are returns to be had?

I assume they have had enough and see no return themselves??

THANK YOU AGAIN

Correct assumption there Parky.

#290 Segovia Carpet

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:05 PM

I think it is too late for that. The council move so slowly and we have until 7th January to have the money - or we get wound up. I think that door is closed. Unfortunately in their decision to not lend us anymore - understandable in the climate of budget cuts - it means they will lose the money we owe them, when we go out of business soon. I think we will have paid back about 20% of the £1.5l loan at most ... We are needing a miracle :unsure:


Hound we dont need £600k for 7th January. Surely the two players can be sorted with a deal of some kind and maybe the IR as well if they see there is nowt left in the pot. I am more hopeful than you and the fans are rallying - not in numbers akin to Bradford - but at least there is movement.

#291 The Parksider

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

I lived through that era, I was a supporter of the game and I am telling you guys they were considered a top team. If there had been a SL of the top 14 clubs, Oldham would have qualified to be in it.


I am 90 years old and i lived through the 1920's, and I am telling you St. Helens Recreation were a top team. If there had been an SL of the top 14 clubs in that era Recs would be in it.

In the mid 30's Liverpool Stanley would have been in it.

In the late 40's through to the early 50's Workington would have been in it

In the mid 70's Bramley would have been in it.

#292 Padge

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:43 PM

So from 1950 to 1960 they were never out of the top 12 in a 30 team league including being league leaders twice, Champions at least once and in the top 4 playoffs another twice.

They then got relegated but bounced right back and were again in the top 10 of a 30 team league for three seasons from 64 to 66 and then the decline started to kick in. To me that would indicate that they were a top team. You have your own agenda and deny this to be so. I beg to differ. They were a top level team by my definition.



Oldham's decline began as early as 1961/62 and came to a head towards the end of that decade.

At then end of the 1967/68 eason Oldham recorded a profit, the first since 1961, of £7,936, in the previous season, 66/67, they had lost £14,000. The turnaround in fortunes wasn't by actually getting more people in to watch them though, they sold several players in order to balance the books.

Oldham were in deep trouble at the start of the 68 season with attendances falling, after a game against Hunslet only drew 2,141 and receipts of £314 the Oldham board held a crisis meeting because the figures were so alarming. They even experimented with a Friday evening game against Warrington but that drew less than 2,000 spectators. Their highest attendance in the first quarter of the 68/69 season was 4,577 but that didn't help Oldham's cash crisis since the game was a Lancashire cup game which meant the receipts were split.

In the 68/69 season they lost £17,000 and had to put club captain Geoff Fletcher up for transfer at £6,000 in a desperate attempt to get in some cash. John Stringer Oldham's secretary said at the time "We don't want to lose Geoff but our financial situation leaves us no choice. We need the money" and the Chairman Ken Fisher had this to say in October 69 "You can't go on forever drawing £300 and spending £600"

So in the 50's Oldham had a few seasons as a leading light but what followed the seasons in the sun was the onset of a terminal decline.

Other clubs, most notably Bradford had problems in the 60's, however I would hardly put Oldham down as a leading light through the 60's.

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#293 Segovia Carpet

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:42 PM

Padge - However I do remember Wigan buying two of Oldham`s key men - Frank Pitchford & the greatest centre I ever saw - Alan Davies.

#294 Padge

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:54 PM

Padge - However I do remember Wigan buying two of Oldham`s key men - Frank Pitchford & the greatest centre I ever saw - Alan Davies.

Just like Wigan buying Lydon and later Offiah to get Widnes out of the mire, what a benevolent club Wigan are and always have been.

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#295 41hound

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

Hound we dont need £600k for 7th January. Surely the two players can be sorted with a deal of some kind and maybe the IR as well if they see there is nowt left in the pot. I am more hopeful than you and the fans are rallying - not in numbers akin to Bradford - but at least there is movement.


According to John Wilkinson at the meeting last night, we need £600,000 - £350,000 for the Wu petition - £20,000 to Anderson, £30,000 to Patten & £300,000 to HMRC. These will be the subject of the WU hearing. Our bank account is frozen and we have no assets except the players. Unless a big cash injection arrives real soon - what answer can we give to the court when they ask - "how do you intend to pay?" ... the other £250,000 is to just pay our players for the season - with no additions. Lets hope they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Forever Reds has started asking for pledges today on Facebook - about 8k pledged so far.

#296 41hound

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:18 PM

Oldham's decline began as early as 1961/62 and came to a head towards the end of that decade.

At then end of the 1967/68 eason Oldham recorded a profit, the first since 1961, of £7,936, in the previous season, 66/67, they had lost £14,000. The turnaround in fortunes wasn't by actually getting more people in to watch them though, they sold several players in order to balance the books.

Oldham were in deep trouble at the start of the 68 season with attendances falling, after a game against Hunslet only drew 2,141 and receipts of £314 the Oldham board held a crisis meeting because the figures were so alarming. They even experimented with a Friday evening game against Warrington but that drew less than 2,000 spectators. Their highest attendance in the first quarter of the 68/69 season was 4,577 but that didn't help Oldham's cash crisis since the game was a Lancashire cup game which meant the receipts were split.

In the 68/69 season they lost £17,000 and had to put club captain Geoff Fletcher up for transfer at £6,000 in a desperate attempt to get in some cash. John Stringer Oldham's secretary said at the time "We don't want to lose Geoff but our financial situation leaves us no choice. We need the money" and the Chairman Ken Fisher had this to say in October 69 "You can't go on forever drawing £300 and spending £600"

So in the 50's Oldham had a few seasons as a leading light but what followed the seasons in the sun was the onset of a terminal decline.

Other clubs, most notably Bradford had problems in the 60's, however I would hardly put Oldham down as a leading light through the 60's.


With total respect to the posters and no rudeness meant at all - why are we talking about Oldham again on this thread? It is interesting and I like the Roughyeds, but surely another thread is called for this stuff?

Edited by 41hound, 18 December 2012 - 10:20 PM.


#297 The Parksider

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

They were in the top 4 in only 4 years out of 20. and that was then in the golden age of our game, before motorways, bypasses, large scale modern housing developments out of town centres, universal TV ownership, large scale personal transport ownership, etc changed the sporting landscape forever.


The sporting lanscape changed and so did Rugby league.

I watched 1965-1973 and have just looked down the 1973 table.

In that table, out out of 30 clubs, I have seen live, or on TV 26 of them in the challenge cup final or a CC semi final, or in another major final.

Only Batley, Whitehaven, Huyton and Donny are clubs I did not see competing at the top.

The move to two divisions started to polarise things, and as you say player and fan mobility changed the landscape, until by the 1990's the number of clubs who had the where with all to have a spell at the top no matter how brief had seriously diminished.

It was essential to take the Superleague money, but that just polarised things even more, and as we know the number of clubs who can make a final is probably down to only seven now. That leaves about 26 clubs who will maybe NEVER get to a major final ever again.

Wishful thinking won't change that, nor will chance, and nor will heavy investment as that is now now being collectively abandoned.

All that's left on a realistic basis is the engineering of Superleague into a competitive game from top to bottom.

#298 Padge

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

With total respect to the posters and no rudeness meant at all - why are we talking about Oldham again on this thread? It is interesting and I like the Roughyeds, but surely another thread is called for this stuff?

I am merely responding to the direction the thread had taken, and showing how people have false perceptions of the past.

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#299 The Parksider

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

Why are we talking about Oldham again on this thread? It is interesting and I like the Roughyeds, but surely another thread is called for this stuff?


IIRC Maurice Lyndsay said that the lack of adequate resources would be the death of many smaller clubs.

To save Salford and Oldham from disaster Lyndsay suggested that they merge.

They didn't and in 1997 Oldham collapsed and went into freefall.

In 2013 Salford face the same fate.

The clubs are inextricably linked through this so it's fair to introduce them to the topic.

Maybe not in the sense of "Oldham were a big club once and can be again" that does belong on another forum. The Fantasy RL forum.

Why have Salford last 15 years longer??? JW.

Edited by The Parksider, 18 December 2012 - 10:27 PM.


#300 41hound

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:30 PM

IIRC Maurice Lyndsay said that the lack of adequate resources would be the death of many smaller clubs.

To save Salford and Oldham from disaster Lyndsay suggested that they merge.

They didn't and in 1997 Oldham collapsed and went into freefall.

In 2013 Salford face the same fate.

The clubs are inextricably linked through this so it's fair to introduce them to the topic.

Maybe not in the sense of "Oldham were a big club once and can be again" that does belong on another forum. The Fantasy RL forum.

Why have Salford last 15 years longer??? JW.


Fair enough - Salford may have lasted 15 years longer, but we wont make the next 20 day at the moment :lol:




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