538 replies to this topic

[Red Willow]

Debts to HMRC are more dififcult to calculate, there are different ways to pay.

There are whole debts then there payments due.

Most struggling businesses have a payment plan and the smaller debt may simply be the next installment of that rather than the total owed.

I think Salford are doomed in their current guise. A new Company may be formed and the RFL may struggle to deny access to SL after Bradford.

[shaun mc]

Debts to HMRC are more dififcult to calculate, there are different ways to pay.

There are whole debts then there payments due.

Most struggling businesses have a payment plan and the smaller debt may simply be the next installment of that rather than the total owed.

I think Salford are doomed in their current guise. A new Company may be formed and the RFL may struggle to deny access to SL after Bradford.

Whether the RFL struggle to allow access because of what happened at Bradford won't be high on the RFL's list. What will be more important is how big the shift and momentum behind a 10 or 12 team league is. Precedent won't be taken into account as the top 4 to 6 clubs will determine what will happen - they could see Bradford as bringing more cash to the top division than in the CC so thats why they proposed to 'buy' Bradford, which also game the new investors and the RFL a bit of breathing space whilst everyone took that one in.
The top 4 - 6 now seem to have such an influence on the strategy and thinking around the game as a whole. Is that good?

[41hound]

Debts to HMRC are more dififcult to calculate, there are different ways to pay.

There are whole debts then there payments due.

Most struggling businesses have a payment plan and the smaller debt may simply be the next installment of that rather than the total owed.

I think Salford are doomed in their current guise. A new Company may be formed and the RFL may struggle to deny access to SL after Bradford.

I agree - But we are bit short of time to implement any new company in time to start next season in SL or championship? I hope someone has a plan.

[Father Ted]

The sums involved are not that great.
The RFL could pay the HMRC and then deduct th money from Salford's SKY allocation. It's been done previously with other clubs.
Should they do that and state the club will take part in SL 2013 then the remaining monies could come from season ticket sales and merchandise, those two could provide much needed income.
With a trimmed wage bill and strict control of other costs the club may well be able to run on a financially stable basis for next season.
Some time past the RFL said the Reds were important in that they were SL's club in the Manchester/Salford conurbation. Let's see if they will back that up with tangible support.

[JohnM]

I know its a repeat but this illustrates the danger of cost cutting when what is really needed is more income.


Because of a long drought followed by a protracted winter, Nasruddin had to ration the barley he fed his donkey. So Nasruddin decided to teach the donkey to eat less. He put the donkey on a diet and started feeding it just a little bit less barley every day. At first, the donkey seemed just as content with what it was offered, so Nasruddin continued gradually reducing the number and amount of the donkey’s meals. The donkey was quieter than usual and moved slower, but to Nasruddin the animal seemed fairly content. After several months of this diet, however, one day Nasruddin walked into the stable to find that the donkey died. Nasruddin, desperately sorry, lamented to Fatima, “Such a pity. All the donkey needed was just a little more time and the poor beast would have gotten used to hunger. Sadly, she didn’t live long enough.”

[The Parksider]

With a trimmed wage bill...........

Comes a trimmed team that cannot compete and loses matches.

With continuous defeats the crowds drop.

John M has it right

[plug]

been reading this topic with intrest as a fev fan i really hope salford do survive this situation rugby leauge needs a salford rfl the problem is every team in sl are running behond there meens trying to please the rfl and sle with posh new stadia wages they can't really afford how many teams in sl own there own ground ??? not many i bet then theres rent on sumat you'll never own people on here are saying if salford go belly up put leigh in sl ??? well that fine by me i dont want my team in at the moment were ok where we are reaching finals winning tne leauge the last 3 years how many teams can say they own there own ground with 17 acres of land to go with it were getting it sorted with the new stand we dont pay rent we can sell land if we wanted but choose not to things are looking good for fev for the future but sl no thanks at the mo leigh its all yours if you want it cos i dont

[Northern Sol]

If clubs are going to go bust midway through a 3-year term with this regularity then the RFL really need to rethink licences.

[Dave T]

If clubs are going to go bust midway through a 3-year term with this regularity then the RFL really need to rethink licences.

Why are licenses even relevant to this? In the current financial climate, you could argue that with P&R and the risks associated with it there could be even more clubs going bust.

It's really not relevant, Salford would be run badly with ###### crowds whether there was P&R or licensing.

[thundergaz]

been reading this topic with intrest as a fev fan i really hope salford do survive this situation rugby leauge needs a salford rfl the problem is every team in sl are running behond there meens trying to please the rfl and sle with posh new stadia wages they can't really afford how many teams in sl own there own ground ??? not many i bet then theres rent on sumat you'll never own people on here are saying if salford go belly up put leigh in sl ??? well that fine by me i dont want my team in at the moment were ok where we are reaching finals winning tne leauge the last 3 years how many teams can say they own there own ground with 17 acres of land to go with it were getting it sorted with the new stand we dont pay rent we can sell land if we wanted but choose not to things are looking good for fev for the future but sl no thanks at the mo leigh its all yours if you want it cos i dont

I will second that we don't want and were not ready for SL yet. We are better staying away until the next round of licensing. But I don't know if people are saying put etc in if Salford go belly up but if they are Leigh are not ready either they were in a lot better position when they were in last time and they got hammered every week. I don't think anyone in the champ is ready yet but financially no one in our league is in a better position than us but SL is a financial graveyard at the minute and we could probably cope financially but we would struggle so the rest definatley would. But I really do hope Salford don't go belly up I wouldn't wish that on our near neighbours never mind another RL club. I just hope they can get through this and come back stronger from it hopefully.

[Father Ted]

By mentioning the possibility to reduce wages I was thinking of the £451k Salford spent on wages in 2012 over 2011.
There is plenty scope there to cut costs without affecting the team too much. What where their respective league positions 2011 and 2012?
Also they are paying £370k rent at SCS on thirteen home games. That is a fortune given the size of the stadium and their crowds. Surely this is an amount that could be re-negotiated with Peel given their close relationship with the Reds and ownership of the place. Those two amounts alone come to £821k and is more than they owe to start the new season.
Of course they need more revenue but those costs really do need looking at again.

[The Parksider]

If clubs are going to go bust midway through a 3-year term with this regularity then the RFL really need to rethink licences.

No they don't.

RFL/SLE set the number of clubs for Superleague. (14 this time)

the license commitee pick the best (14) resourced clubs.

And that's it.

Licenses are not the cause of anyone going kaput.

It's the salary cap being too high and the resources in terms of fans and players being too low for the number of clubs

The right balance needs setting.

[sweaty craiq]

Licensing the RFL way doesn't work, it may have worked with a competent process evenly implemented by impartial auditors.
Our sport is seen as a joke at the top and I couldn't argue with that perception. We need some wealth creators within our administration before its too late, bean counters and pen pushers have limited appeal.
In the meantime we must deal with clubs using administration as a benefit, no pain is associated with it as in Bulls, Wakey and probably now Salford - it does our image even more harm.

[Northern Sol]

Why are licenses even relevant to this? In the current financial climate, you could argue that with P&R and the risks associated with it there could be even more clubs going bust.

It's really not relevant, Salford would be run badly with ###### crowds whether there was P&R or licensing.

Yeah but at least, they could be relegated. Now they are committed to another two seasons.

[Northern Sol]

No they don't.

RFL/SLE set the number of clubs for Superleague. (14 this time)

the license commitee pick the best (14) resourced clubs.

And that's it.

Licenses are not the cause of anyone going kaput.

It's the salary cap being too high and the resources in terms of fans and players being too low for the number of clubs

The right balance needs setting.

I somehow doubt that Salford are among the best 14 right now, nor for the next two seasons.

[Padge]

Licensing the RFL way doesn't work, it may have worked with a competent process evenly implemented by impartial auditors.
Our sport is seen as a joke at the top and I couldn't argue with that perception. We need some wealth creators within our administration before its too late, bean counters and pen pushers have limited appeal.
In the meantime we must deal with clubs using administration as a benefit, no pain is associated with it as in Bulls, Wakey and probably now Salford - it does our image even more harm.

Well done, I think you got them all in in the one post.

Oh hang on, you seem to have missed 'sold down the river'

only 9/10

[Padge]

Why are licenses even relevant to this? In the current financial climate, you could argue that with P&R and the risks associated with it there could be even more clubs going bust.

It's really not relevant, Salford would be run badly with ###### crowds whether there was P&R or licensing.

I posted earlier what was happening in the 60's at Oldham, their decline started in 61 ( no P&R ) and accelerated with the introduction of P & R which coincidently coincides with Bradford's infamous down turn and departure into oblivion. No licensing, no P&R and P&R, the game went belly up for clubs then, as it does now.

The introduction of P&R was slagged off when introduced, a lot of clubs hated it and saw it as their ruin.

Edited by Padge, 19 December 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[foozler]

Slightly concerning thing coming out of Salford is the current Chairman saying that their problems are all down to the fact that at Barton the only real revenue stream for the Reds (and I presume also the Sharks) is ticket sales. Whereas at the Willows, they had other revenue streams connected to the stadium. Surely when they were costing the move to Barton, someone somewhere at the club factored in the loss of this revenue from non playing commercial activity into the budgets? Is that where they got the 'finger in the air' figure of 8,000 average crowds a figure several thousand higher than they had been getting at the Willows.

Funny old world really. If Saints had stayed at Knowsley Road the club would have probably gone bust, whereas it looks like had Salford stayed at the Willows they would be in much better shape than now. I still think it right the RFL insist on upgrading facilities, but thankfully they have injected a dose of realism and are taking account of the economic climate,

Edited by foozler, 19 December 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[The Parksider]

I somehow doubt that Salford are among the best 14 right now, nor for the next two seasons.

That's not the point one little bit.

Do you think Fev, Leigh, Fax or Eagles had more money or resources in 2011 and do you think any of them would have managed to do better than Salford.

[Dave T]

Slightly concerning thing coming out of Salford is the current Chairman saying that their problems are all down to the fact that at Barton the only real revenue stream for the Reds (and I presume also the Sharks) is ticket sales. Whereas at the Willows, they had other revenue streams connected to the stadium. Surely when they were costing the move to Barton, someone somewhere at the club factored in the loss of this revenue from non playing commercial activity into the budgets? Is that where they got the 'finger in the air' figure of 8,000 average crowds a figure several thousand higher than they had been getting at the Willows.

Funny old world really. If Saints had stayed at Knowsley Road the club would have probably gone bust, whereas it looks like had Salford stayed at the Willows they would be in much better shape than now. I still think it right the RFL insist on upgrading facilities, but thankfully they have injected a dose of realism and are taking account of the economic climate,

incompetence. thats what it sounds like to me. I know people like to hold JW up as a hero, and its good to see anybody invest in RL but there has been next to nothing that has ever impressed me about Salford as a business.