Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 402

Try our Fantastic 5-Issue Bundle Offer! For just £18, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:
The Play-offs Issue - pictured (out 12 Sept) – Covering the climax of the Super League & Championship seasons
The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final excitement from both sides of the world plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Salford Trouble/Salford Takeover


  • Please log in to reply
533 replies to this topic

#421 thundergaz

thundergaz
  • Coach
  • 2,687 posts

Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

I'll let you decide for yourself K.
No way will the amount being spent on Derwent Park bring it up to what could be termed (even loosely) an international stadium. I'm sure most Town fans would agree with that. However, it is a ground with massive potential if the right investment could be found that is for sure.

Barrow could be brought up to SL standard fairly easily IF we had the cash to do it LOL. The current capacity is circa 7,000 but it wouldn't take an awful lot to increase that figure significantly. However, our focus this year is to raise £100k for new floodlights.
Certainly Craven Park has far more potential than say Dewsbury imo. PLUS we own our little piece of land.
The new stadium at Whitehaven will (from what I have read) fall woefully short of the minimum size for SL.


That's a shame really Keith. But I for one am glad the Cumbrian teams are back in the champ as I love the away days in Cumbria and the barrow fans always make you welcome. The champ will be better for having the Cumbrian teams in it.

Edited by thundergaz, 20 December 2012 - 08:29 PM.


#422 Terry Mullaney

Terry Mullaney
  • Coach
  • 1,991 posts

Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

You seem uncertain about the 2015 application going in and Mr. Nahaboo's input?


There's no uncertainty on my part Parky. If licensing still exists in its present form, which I doubt, then an application will almost certainly go in from Rovers for 2015. The tone of my posting was more in response to a few on here who seem to think Fev are not worthy of SL in the eyes of the RFL. The vibes which the club are getting from the RFL are anything but negative so I'm told.

Mr Nahaboo spoke at the last home game to 3000 fans and made his vision for Rovers quite clear but still people doubt him. Why the hell would he do that if his intentions were otherwise? Mark Campbell and Craig Poskitt have worked closely with the guy and, as I said, neither of them are fools. The RFL need to show their hand soon, we can't expect Nahaboo or any other potential investors to shell out pots of money without absolute assurance of the direction in which the game intends to proceed.
Wedding Films For The Discerning by Picture House
Free Showreel DVD On Request

http://www.pictureho...ingfilms.co.uk/

#423 Keith T

Keith T
  • Coach
  • 8,844 posts

Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

That's a black picture you are trying to paint there Keith Nutter about Derwent Park. The ground capacity is already either 9000 or 9500 and by the time you arrive with Barrow on 3rd March I'm sure you will see a much improved stadium.

Half a million is being spent providing fencing all around the perimeter of the land with new road surfaces, new turnstiles, new seats in the grandstand, new roofs on the grandstand and the popularside terrace, improved press box and radio commentators box, new TV gantry on the popularside, an electronic scoreboard, some new steelwork on the popularside, new changing rooms, new drainage system installed for the pitch and pitch re-alignment. There will be new toilets in the grandstand and during the World Cup matches there will be numerous portaloos brought in.

Town also have a 90 year lease on Derwent Park and the land around it. I'm sorry Barrow's floodlights don't come up to scratch and I hope you get the funding for new ones but why knock what is happening at Town. The Pow Beck Stadium at Whitehaven is dead in the water and they are hoping that the old recreation Ground can be done up similar to what is happening at Derwent Park.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#424 Keith Nutter

Keith Nutter
  • Coach
  • 1,957 posts

Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

That's a black picture you are trying to paint there Keith Nutter about Derwent Park. The ground capacity is already either 9000 or 9500 and by the time you arrive with Barrow on 3rd March I'm sure you will see a much improved stadium.

Half a million is being spent providing fencing all around the perimeter of the land with new road surfaces, new turnstiles, new seats in the grandstand, new roofs on the grandstand and the popularside terrace, improved press box and radio commentators box, new TV gantry on the popularside, an electronic scoreboard, some new steelwork on the popularside, new changing rooms, new drainage system installed for the pitch and pitch re-alignment. There will be new toilets in the grandstand and during the World Cup matches there will be numerous portaloos brought in.

Town also have a 90 year lease on Derwent Park and the land around it. I'm sorry Barrow's floodlights don't come up to scratch and I hope you get the funding for new ones but why knock what is happening at Town. The Pow Beck Stadium at Whitehaven is dead in the water and they are hoping that the old recreation Ground can be done up similar to what is happening at Derwent Park.


Keith I didn't knock Town if you read my post in detail. I always defend Cumbria to the hilt but am also a realist.
Do you really believe that at the end of the current work the ground will be "international standard"? I did say it has massive potential but if you are honest with yourself you must know it needs an awful lot of work - as does CP of course.

Posted Image


#425 Keith T

Keith T
  • Coach
  • 8,844 posts

Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:43 PM

Keith N, I don't think for one minute keighley meant it was like Wembley or Old Trafford but what I think he meant was that there will be two World Cup international matches being played there come October 2013.

Of course any older stadium needs work and we are just glad to have been the recipients of a large grant from the British Energy Coast to do the work we are with our local council underwriting a further £50k. We could spend another half million if we could find it that is quite right but we are just glad for what we have. Oh, and I forgot to mention we have upgraded the floodlights to top grade lux.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#426 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,147 posts

Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:35 PM

When is the next home game in Barcelona?


Sadly Barcelona decided not to invest in RL or maybe that didn't make you sad?

#427 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,375 posts

Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:55 PM

Sadly Barcelona decided not to invest in RL or maybe that didn't make you sad?


It made me neither happy nor sad just incredulous. There is no RL history or culture in Spanish Catalonia. That 20,000 crowd was based on what, many British Fans, French Catalans fans and probably freebies to the locals. I dont think you can trumpet that as a justification for putting a SL franchise there.

You often throw the epithets Dreamer and Fantasy Thinking in my direction when I have the temerity to suggest a CC club for SL but that suggestion and Dublin or Edinburgh are exactly that. The Spanish economy is in a lot worse state than even the British economy and we have Salford on the verge of extinction and you want a SL licence for Barcelona. Theres no big competition from soccer there then.

#428 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,147 posts

Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:57 PM

1.The fact is maybe only Leeds and Wigan from England would be able to compete in SL without the massive backing of a millionaire. The rest NEED a backer to even survive let alone compete.

2.They have shown over and over again that expansion is pointless even their is no proper foundation and development going on. Can you name me one SL club from the expansion list you have given of Paris, Gateshead, Wales, London, Toulouse and Barcelona which has been a success and can challenge the top clubs on and off the field?


1. Looks like they'll drop to 12 clubs next time an maybe tweak a few things, hopefully Wakefield will get Newmarket, Bradford will "re-build" in SL, Toulouse will come in and Superleague will take a few steps towards being more super than ever.

2. Trying to build foundations in places where the game doesn't exist at a high level is ultra tough. Your the dreamer thinking that clubs in new areas will grow and grow from little acorns into SL clubs. You can't have it both ways, you can't slag SL clubs off in traditional areas for struggling then make out in non traditional areas you can create a thriving RL culture from the "grass roots".

Having a top club in an area is the best way to create interest like London do in the south east and Cru did in south Wales, when the money was there Gateshead did well too.

You'll want to deny that of course but a little excersise looking at where in our traditional heartlands are the most players stimulated to play and fans stimulated to watch??

Why in Superleague areas of course.

But as usual London and Wales are somehow "different" nobody ever got interested in RL because of those clubs, neither club ever contributed to a rise in the game in their areas.

#429 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,147 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:05 AM

You want a SL licence for Barcelona.


No I want someone smelly rich to bankroll Superleague clubs in Barcelona, Paris, South Wales, the North East etc.

That these places had or entertained Superleague is a reality.

10,000 people turned out in Paris, 10,000 in wrexham.

Top level Rugby league can create tremendous interest in RL.

Sadly the money to sustain it and build an RL culture off the back of it isn't there. I wish it was.

Lyndsay suggested Rome and they all took the proverbial. Seen any big heavily attended major Rugby games in Rome recently?

The reason people take the mickey and pretend that having a top club in a non M62 area cannot build our game in places well away from the M62 is it frightens them that it can..

Edited by The Parksider, 21 December 2012 - 12:08 AM.


#430 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,147 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:12 AM

The stadia not being up to scratch that the licencing committee used to regulalrly beat CC clubs around the head with is really becoming passe.

Halifax, Leigh, Featherstone, Workington, Sheffield are SL ready.

Batley have an excellent stadium which couod easily be SL compliant if the capacity was upped a little.

Dewsbury are updating their ground as we speak.

York have a new groundshare with York City promised which will be SL compliant

Whitehaven are waiting for the Pow Beck scheme to be built.

This leaves only Keighley, Hunslet and Barrow who could be denied on ground criteria.


Shame that last bit, anyway at least you've found a long list of candidates to replace Salford.

Looks to me you like to slag off any clubs outside the trad areas yet champion the old time clubs in the north no matter what.

Northern game for northern folk eh?

Edited by The Parksider, 21 December 2012 - 12:13 AM.


#431 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,375 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 05:18 AM

Shame that last bit, anyway at least you've found a long list of candidates to replace Salford.

Looks to me you like to slag off any clubs outside the trad areas yet champion the old time clubs in the north no matter what.

Northern game for northern folk eh?


No, I ve pointed out that many CC clubs have good grounds. Salford have an excellent ground, worked well for them, didn t it.

The point was that an inadequate stadium was an easy target on which to rubbish CC clubs SL applications or ambitions and now, for the most part, it s not and so they will have to move on to other criteria.

The game of RL is for all folk who want it wherever they might be. I don t dislike non Northern teams. How did you come to that conclusion.?

I do dislike the train of thought which is willing to sacrifice existing Northern teams to accomodate the introduction of expansion teams, i.e. dump Castleford so we can have Toulouse or Hull KR so we can have a Welsh team or keep out Featherstone just so there is a London team, however poor they might be.

My fantasy would be to keep them all and truly expand our game without sacrificing any heritage teams.

I welcome the expansion of CC1 next season because it does just that.

I do like the idea of teams progressing via merit on the field supported by sufficient finance off it and not spending beyond what can be afforded.

#432 sweaty craiq

sweaty craiq
  • Coach
  • 1,569 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:16 AM

The solution is two divisions of ten. It allows the elite the intensity needed at the pinnacle of the sport whilst creating a structure to house all the heartlands in a position to run FT together with the expansion the game needs. Minimum spends in each division eg £2m and £1.2m, with the second tier getting £700k from TV deal by reallocating the money from the 4 coming down and the £600k from the 6 coming up you need an extra £1m deal for tv rights , and 1 up 1 down with a play off means you have something to play for.
Applications every 3 years with the goal of increasing not replacing, with the minimum spend sorting out the dreamers from the realists
A second tier of Cas, Salford, Wakey/HKR, Widnes, Leigh, Fev, Fax, Sheff, Toulouse and Cardiff/Swansea would be a great advert for the sport and a fantastic expansion platform.

#433 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,147 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:25 AM

The solution is two divisions of ten. It allows the elite the intensity needed at the pinnacle of the sport whilst creating a structure to house all the heartlands in a position to run FT together with the expansion the game needs........with the second tier getting £700k from TV deal


I make that 10 second tier clubs getting £700K a year and 10 first tier clubs getting £980K a year?

Why not run with £840K a year each.

After that we'll have clubs like Wigan at the top of tier one playing before 15,000 crowds with people interested in sponsoring them and advertising with them.

And clubs like leigh down the road struggling to get out of tier two before 1,500 crowds. with the local corner shop sponsoring the match ball.

I hate to criticise such ideas, without alternatives but the only way to even up Rugby league has to be to allocate SKY funding annually on a sliding scale.

SKY money could be allocated by giving the Tier one champions nothing, and the club at the bottom of Tier 2 £1.68M

Tier one runners up £84,000 Tier 2 second to bottom £1.596M etc etc.

that will solve the gross disparity between your Leeds and Hunslets and your Wigan and Leighs.

Edited by The Parksider, 21 December 2012 - 10:26 AM.


#434 tonyXIII

tonyXIII
  • Coach
  • 4,981 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:54 AM

I make that 10 second tier clubs getting £700K a year and 10 first tier clubs getting £980K a year?

Why not run with £840K a year each.

After that we'll have clubs like Wigan at the top of tier one playing before 15,000 crowds with people interested in sponsoring them and advertising with them.

And clubs like leigh down the road struggling to get out of tier two before 1,500 crowds. with the local corner shop sponsoring the match ball.

I hate to criticise such ideas, without alternatives but the only way to even up Rugby league has to be to allocate SKY funding annually on a sliding scale.

SKY money could be allocated by giving the Tier one champions nothing, and the club at the bottom of Tier 2 £1.68M

Tier one runners up £84,000 Tier 2 second to bottom £1.596M etc etc.

that will solve the gross disparity between your Leeds and Hunslets and your Wigan and Leighs.


This sort of positive discrimination worked in the NFL, but using the draft system rather than hard cash.

I have wondered for a while whether Wigan and Leeds actually do need as much as Wakey, Cas or London. I also wonder if some clubs might not just 'give up' on their games and finish bottom in order to get more dosh the following year. I suspect it might need careful monitoring to make sure that those clubs that help themselves get the help they deserve/need. Interesting idea, though.

Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society
Founder (and, so far, only) member.


#435 sweaty craiq

sweaty craiq
  • Coach
  • 1,569 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

I make that 10 second tier clubs getting £700K a year and 10 first tier clubs getting £980K a year?

Why not run with £840K a year each.

After that we'll have clubs like Wigan at the top of tier one playing before 15,000 crowds with people interested in sponsoring them and advertising with them.

And clubs like leigh down the road struggling to get out of tier two before 1,500 crowds. with the local corner shop sponsoring the match ball.

I hate to criticise such ideas, without alternatives but the only way to even up Rugby league has to be to allocate SKY funding annually on a sliding scale.

SKY money could be allocated by giving the Tier one champions nothing, and the club at the bottom of Tier 2 £1.68M

Tier one runners up £84,000 Tier 2 second to bottom £1.596M etc etc.

that will solve the gross disparity between your Leeds and Hunslets and your Wigan and Leighs.


Evening out the sheeeite is a unique corporate strategy I'll give you that, indeed a strategy to finish bottom has its commercial advantages in your marxist world.
I would be amazed if a club could draw 1500, pay out 1.2m in players wages and survive!!!

#436 thundergaz

thundergaz
  • Coach
  • 2,687 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:05 PM

I make that 10 second tier clubs getting £700K a year and 10 first tier clubs getting £980K a year?

Why not run with £840K a year each.

After that we'll have clubs like Wigan at the top of tier one playing before 15,000 crowds with people interested in sponsoring them and advertising with them.

And clubs like leigh down the road struggling to get out of tier two before 1,500 crowds. with the local corner shop sponsoring the match ball.

I hate to criticise such ideas, without alternatives but the only way to even up Rugby league has to be to allocate SKY funding annually on a sliding scale.

SKY money could be allocated by giving the Tier one champions nothing, and the club at the bottom of Tier 2 £1.68M

Tier one runners up £84,000 Tier 2 second to bottom £1.596M etc etc.

that will solve the gross disparity between your Leeds and Hunslets and your Wigan and Leighs.


The problem with that is who is to say teams like salford {only using them as they are in a mess at the minute} finish bottom on purpose so they can collect the maximium pay out to help cover their debts etc.

#437 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,147 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:31 PM

Evening out the sheeeite is a unique corporate strategy I'll give you that, indeed a strategy to finish bottom has its commercial advantages in your marxist world.
I would be amazed if a club could draw 1500, pay out 1.2m in players wages and survive!!!


Oh well it was just a "naive" ;) suggestion that we may share out the SKY money across 20 sides according to needs. Tony liked it though, you have to admit it's a pearler in principle.

The arguments about throwing matches would be top entertainment in themselves.

#438 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,147 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:43 PM

I do dislike the train of thought which is willing to sacrifice existing Northern teams to accomodate the introduction of expansion teams, i.e. dump Castleford so we can have Toulouse or Hull KR so we can have a Welsh team or keep out Featherstone just so there is a London team, however poor they might be.


And there it is in all it’s glory. An undying love for that old lady “Northern Rugby League”. She’s over 100 years old now and bits of her are dying and falling off but she’s given you a life of excitement and ultimately satisfaction and as you grow old together you will remain loyal to the end. She’s still beautiful in your eyes, even though youngsters don’t take a look at her. No soft southern belle, no welsh dragon, no French tart can ever replace her.

Love is unconditional and we have to accept our partners faults. She’s old and past it so she’s not going to be any sponsors poster girl anymore, she’s not going to get her face in the newspapers, she’ll keep doddering on but as long as she does you’ll be by her side, you’ll support her, speak up for her for she is your first and will be your last love.

Indeed why bother with the “Poor” London, we can get poor crowds up here, we can develop new players in Oldham and Keighley, why did we ever bother with Wales or France just to be embarrassed by those international blow outs. Why did we give away thousands of free tickets for those SL openers in Wales and France to those freeloading foreigners when the good people of Halifax will pay full price. Why waste RFL money on the Wrexham stadium when we can waste it at Odsal, why look to Barcelona's riches when we have investors with a "few bob" now and again oop t'north, why bother that Rome can put on a competetive Italian RU international before a massive crowd, that's an alien game that's not "Northern Rugby League".

For some I don't think it's ever thought out in the head, that RL cannot move forward and will go backwards without ambition, without looking beyond it's boundaries, and without trying to be more than it is. Cue cries of "top down doesn't work" made from the heart, reply with it worked better than any bottom up when the money was there made from the head.

But you can't get in the way of an old couple who've been in love this last 60 years, they only have eyes for each other.

#439 tonyXIII

tonyXIII
  • Coach
  • 4,981 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:46 PM

Oh well it was just a "naive" ;) suggestion that we may share out the SKY money across 20 sides according to needs. Tony liked it though, you have to admit it's a pearler in principle.

The arguments about throwing matches would be top entertainment in themselves.


I'm not sure that I said I liked it. It is interesting, and it certainly fits into the 'thinking outside the box' category. As usual, it should not be ruled out. All ideas should be discussed openly. Including this one.

Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society
Founder (and, so far, only) member.


#440 intheshed

intheshed
  • Coach
  • 407 posts

Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:11 PM

And there it is in all it’s glory. An undying love for that old lady “Northern Rugby League”. She’s over 100 years old now and bits of her are dying and falling off but she’s given you a life of excitement and ultimately satisfaction and as you grow old together you will remain loyal to the end. She’s still beautiful in your eyes, even though youngsters don’t take a look at her. No soft southern belle, no welsh dragon, no French tart can ever replace her.

Love is unconditional and we have to accept our partners faults. She’s old and past it so she’s not going to be any sponsors poster girl anymore, she’s not going to get her face in the newspapers, she’ll keep doddering on but as long as she does you’ll be by her side, you’ll support her, speak up for her for she is your first and will be your last love.

Indeed why bother with the “Poor” London, we can get poor crowds up here, we can develop new players in Oldham and Keighley, why did we ever bother with Wales or France just to be embarrassed by those international blow outs. Why did we give away thousands of free tickets for those SL openers in Wales and France to those freeloading foreigners when the good people of Halifax will pay full price. Why waste RFL money on the Wrexham stadium when we can waste it at Odsal, why look to Barcelona's riches when we have investors with a "few bob" now and again oop t'north, why bother that Rome can put on a competetive Italian RU international before a massive crowd, that's an alien game that's not "Northern Rugby League".

For some I don't think it's ever thought out in the head, that RL cannot move forward and will go backwards without ambition, without looking beyond it's boundaries, and without trying to be more than it is. Cue cries of "top down doesn't work" made from the heart, reply with it worked better than any bottom up when the money was there made from the head.

But you can't get in the way of an old couple who've been in love this last 60 years, they only have eyes for each other.


In order to ensure we don't end up at crossed purposes could you highlight the examples of 'top down' development you have in mind as being relative successes & blueprints for future expansion?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users