538 replies to this topic

[The Parksider]

When have I ever said Halifax should be in SL? I am quite happy where Fax are making a profit and winning trophies etc.

On another thread you say it's great news Mr. Abbot is leading the club towards Superleague?

[41hound]

Open question, as there is a lot of knowledge here - Us Salford fans are being starved of concrete plans for 2013 by our club. Do you think Salford will be able to play in ANY division if we go into admin and re-start? I think it is obvious we will be removed from SL if this happens, but is it now too late to play in Championship 1? Reforming the club and players to suit will take time ...

[thundergaz]

Open question, as there is a lot of knowledge here - Us Salford fans are being starved of concrete plans for 2013 by our club. Do you think Salford will be able to play in ANY division if we go into admin and re-start? I think it is obvious we will be removed from SL if this happens, but is it now too late to play in Championship 1? Reforming the club and players to suit will take time ...

Unless a team replaces Salford in SL from the champ then I doubt you will be aloud in the champ I hate to say it but more than likely you will be playing in champ one which is a league no one wants to be in with the distances between the teams and low attendances.

[intheshed]

My evasiveness is based on knowing that you only have to mention Crusaders or London and they'll be out screaming what a waste of time and money they were/are and that there's no legacy to that waste of time and money, because crusaders didn't do anything for RL in Wales just like London Broncos do nothing for the game in London.

Maybe we should shut Wigan and Leeds down as clearly their presence does nothing for the game in those places either? Unless
the north is somehow different to the south or wales???

NO I'VE GOT IT- let's shut down the whole of superleague because they are just leaches and don't inspire anyone to play and don't create any interest in the game, our game will then flourish from the grass roots up all across the country.

If your in the mood for an honest answer will London RL continue to go from strength to strength if the Broncos shut down? Would welsh RL have kept on an upward curve if Crusaders were still in South Wales and SL.

Usual suspects need not send their postcards in.

Back to Salford. here's a club whose support was just as poor as Londons but we had an avalanch of posts over many years virtually all clamouring for London to be shut down because of poor support. Not a dickie bird was said about Salford's support.

We had criticism after criticism of London and Mr. Hughes as a pointless one man club which would collapse if mr. Hughes withdrew his money

According to Northern Sol if Mr. Wilkinson withdraws his it will leave a legacy of a "fantastic record of support". Can't see the same tributes coming for mr. Hughes, it will be "what a waste of time that was"

Keighley let the veil slip and that's the only reason I raise the point. He goes on about Manchester and how we need to do this and do that to save the place for Rugby League.

Here's a place that once had top top teams in Broughton (who had the games biggest junior set up) Swinton (who won all four cups) Salford (the archetypal glamour club under Snape) Oldham ( big club through the years) and Rochdale.

If those who find London and Crusaders a disgusting waste of time and money then they want to add up just how much people have sunk into those five clubs from in and around manchester, and how many years they have been sinking that money in if they REALLY want to find a truly collosal waste of time and money.

They'll find it slap bang in the middle of the so called "heartlands"

Sorry but this reads like further evasion followed by an impressive attempt at diversion.

Its not about whether any club, area or expansion attempt was a waste of time or money but whether with the benefit of experience it would be wise to continue to do things the same way.

You've said in reply to another post that you feel with sufficient money Crusaders could have been a success and a SL club in the area would have drawn people into the game. Well the point is there wasn't enough money and the SL club no longer exists. This is broadly similar to the experience we had with Gateshead & Paris. Its not about whether the game should seek to expand, it should, but whether there is any reason to believe the 'top down' methrd actually delivers long term success. Unless you have come up with a way of making sure any future 'top down' club won't run out of money I simply don't see how you can advocate more of the same whilst crossing your fingers & hoping it might turn out differently.

I've run with Crusaders as a primary example as you have them forward but I'm not sure the South Wales incarnation would meet the description of a top down expansion. Either way I don't see them as a successful example of expansion or at least not one we should be seeking to replicate.

On London, i have nothing but admiration for David Hughes and those that have gone before him. Others will be better qualified than me to judge whether the community game could have grown without them or would shrink if they went but I cant see how they havent been and remain a huge assistance. But again that misses my point, I don't argue that it wouldn't be good to have SL presence in North & South Wales, Dublin, Rome, Barcelona or any other place you care to mention. I simply doubt the evidence exists to support your position that dropping a club in to a city with an initial backer can be relied upon to deliver a long term success.

[Northern Sol]

That's great. Shows you that Rugby League is not just a game that attracts northerners.

When did I say that it was?

[41hound]

Unless a team replaces Salford in SL from the champ then I doubt you will be aloud in the champ I hate to say it but more than likely you will be playing in champ one which is a league no one wants to be in with the distances between the teams and low attendances.

I did say championship 1 in ,my post. Is there room for us to join and time to sort it out?

[thundergaz]

I did say championship 1 in ,my post. Is there room for us to join and time to sort it out?

You must be fearing the worst. I hope you don't go bust but I guess you have to look at the alternatives. I would of thought the RFL will let you in as one of the clubs that were meant to be joining pulled out so I guess there is a space but I think it's more of have you guys got time to put a team together at short notice?

[Northern Sol]

, why look to Barcelona's riches when we have investors with a "few bob" now and again oop t'north,

Why must you keep peddling myths?

There was no Barcelona team, it was just the fantasy of the usual suspects.

Why years down the road do you need to keep pretending?

[The Parksider]

Its not about whether any club, area or expansion attempt was a waste of time or money but whether with the benefit of experience it would be wise to continue to do things the same way.

You've said in reply to another post that you feel with sufficient money Crusaders could have been a success and a SL club in the area would have drawn people into the game. Well the point is there wasn't enough money and the SL club no longer exists.

This is broadly similar to the experience we had with Gateshead & Paris. Its not about whether the game should seek to expand, it should, but whether there is any reason to believe the 'top down' method actually delivers long term success. Unless you have come up with a way of making sure any future 'top down' club won't run out of money I simply don't see how you can advocate more of the same whilst crossing your fingers & hoping it might turn out differently.

Declare your interest good sir? Who is your club??

You question whether it would be wise to "continue to do things the same way". What particular way is this??

Is this the SL way where an expansion club, with all the massive benefits it would bring to RL if Broncos took off in London or if Celtic Crusaders became a bigger club than some of the RU "no names" in Wales, are allowed only the same SKY money as Wigan, Leeds and Hull who have 140 years start, to achieve this goal???

Monsterous short sightedness by the insular SL chairmen dontcha think??

Do these people care for the game or are they just forming some sort of cliquey northern rich mans club.??

The point is there's no more money for Crusaders YES and the SL club no longer exists TRUE.

But the same point is there's no more money for Salford as it stands and the heartland SL club may exist no longer.

Same thing.

So shall we drop the expansion policy because nobody wants to watch or fund clubs outside the M62? And at the same time shall we drop the "M62 only" attitude of many on here because nobody wants to watch or fund most clubs in heartlands either??

Yes we had an experience with Gateshead and Paris that was unfortunate. nobody wants to watch or fund clubs who fail in Superleague.

Yes we had an experience with Oldham, Workington, Halifax, Leigh, Sheffield, Keighley, Bradford, Wakefield, and Salford, nobody wants to watch or fund northern clubs who fail in Superleague either.

Can you see the similarity? Can you see the ambiguity?

When clubs outside the M62 struggle I suspect some people have a wry smile and delight in suggesting best not try that again?

After all it doesn't work does it, Paris, Gateshead, Barcelona, Rome. London, Wales etc prove it doesn't work.

Trouble is Salford (formed in 1873, joined the NU in 1896, six times top club in the Rugby league, record attendance 26,000) doesn't work for sure and Bradford and Wakefield don't work either.

My point is simple.

There are no "expansion" or "heartland" clubs. there are only "Rugby League Clubs" and those who seek to create a "them and us" between the M62 and anywhere that is foreign to the M62 (that's just south of Sheffield BTW) such that they can declare "them" unviable, usually have a thumping big chip on their shoulder that leads them to suggest to their Northern Rugby League Working Mens Club (affiliated) that such aliens should be discouraged from membership .

Thing is if you want a successful Rugby League you make sure Wigan are at the heart of Lancashire,

Then you make sure Leeds sits proud at the heart of Yorkshire.

Then you add Hull to complete rugby Leagues traditional giants.

Then we need the capitol London. It's essential, in go the Broncos.

Now we need Wales its big Rugby Country (oooh no we need Doncaster, Sheffield, etc) they love their RL in Wales

Now we need Les Catalans to get that third international profile and France to the fore.

Those are the six essential clubs needed in "super league europe" (did you note the "europe") for the game to ever succeed.

OK I appreciate there's an alternative, appparently Halifax, Leigh and Featherstone are making great strides. Forget London, Wales and France "who needs 'em". When we can have Halifax fighting for the same fans, players and sponsors as Bradford and Fartown, when we can have Featherstone battling it out with Cas and Wakey for every paying fan and playing kid down Calder way, and of course Leigh, who can also play tug of war over every fan and player torn between going a couple of miles up the road or a coule of miles down the road.

Fine by me, the M62 mob can eat themselves, but don't tell me I have things wrong because I don't. I am not blessed with any more brains than anyone else on here, but I don't get weighed down by a "my club is not in Superleague, those damn foreigners are blocking the way, they should sord off, I don't care if my club isn't in superleague, I much prefer the championship, but oh god how I wish we were in there really" rubbish.

[The Parksider]

Why must you keep peddling myths? Why years down the road do you need to keep pretending?

Why do you hate London Broncos.

Change it to "London Sol"

[Northern Sol]

Why do you hate London Broncos.

Change it to "London Sol"

And you wonder why people send you abuse.

You keep making stupid stuff up.

[The Parksider]

And you wonder why people send you abuse.

You keep making stupid stuff up.

People send me abuse probably because I support Superleague and it ate their hamster.

Oddly enough only fans from clubs like Leigh, Fax and Fev (i.e. superleague "wannabees") send me abuse at the mo.

When Widnes were in the CC their fans who wanted to be in Superleague "sent me abuse" . They don't now?

When I suggested the cosy Hull/HKR set up in which each club dragged the other down was senseless in came the abuse.

The problem may not be I make stuff up (Like London ARL will continue to thrive if the RFL/SLE abandon the Broncos) it may be the truth grates?

[Northern Sol]

People send me abuse probably because I support Superleague and it ate their hamster.

Oddly enough only fans from clubs like Leigh, Fax and Fev (i.e. superleague "wannabees") send me abuse at the mo.

When Widnes were in the CC their fans who wanted to be in Superleague "sent me abuse" . They don't now?

When I suggested the cosy Hull/HKR set up in which each club dragged the other down was senseless in came the abuse.

The problem may not be I make stuff up (Like London ARL will continue to thrive if the RFL/SLE abandon the Broncos) it may be the truth grates?

You invent things like a Scottish club joining the national league, taunt people about its inevitability and then forget all about it. You perpetuate myths like the fabled "Barcelona SL club" even though you know full well there is no truth to them.

When I call you on them, you play the "You hate London Broncos" card to avoid discussion.

[The Parksider]

You

You

you

you

It's not about me.

Rugby league at it's pinnacle, i.e. the end that the vast majority of people take any notice of, has to present as more than a Northern Sol.

Sorry, Northern "Game".

[Northern Sol]

Just stop peddling myths. It's obvious a fun game to you but there are people who seem to actually believe that a Barcelona club was on the cards because you and others keep talking about it.

And stop playing the "You hate expansion" card every time somebody disagrees with your latest flight of fantasy.

[The Parksider]

You keep making stupid stuff up.

Yeh I've done it 12.901 times, but blimey solly your down as having done 13,502 posts

[The Parksider]

It's obvious a fun game to you........

I don't find it fun watching our great game disintegrate because the SL chairmen are self centered, I don't find it fun arguing against people who have chips on their shoulder because their club isn't in Superleague. It would be fun if we could all pull towards what's best for the game and cut the petty jealousy.

Now stop pursuing me and stick to the rules of the board. I have to accept the rubbish you post so you accept the rubbish I post otherwise I'll put you on ignore.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

And you wonder why people send you abuse.

You keep making stupid stuff up.

nobody should wonder why they recieve abuse
because nobody shoild recieve abuse.

you and I have had all sorts of discussions over the years. I don't know about you, but I've enjoyed them immensely.
Nobody should recieve abuse for having tyhe 'wrong' ideas. I speak from bitter experience.

[Lounge Room Lizard]

Each to their own Chris and its only opinions at the end of the day which often have no right or wrong answer. I consider us friends despite our different viewpoints over things. It would be boring if we all agreed. I do try to see others views and look to think why they think such a way. And my views are often probably daft. But everybody has the right to their viewpoint and even better if they can back it up which I try to do. But when somebody makes things up that I have alleged to have said and twist words then I will challenge them publically which some may see as abuse and not send them a PM. Personally Abuse doesnt bother me that much, but I can understand people who do get upset. Sometimes due to other "things" that you know about, I do sometimes post things just to help me get through, as you know. Anyway keep in good health as know you dont come on here as much

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Each to their own Chris and its only opinions at the end of the day which often have no right or wrong answer. I consider us friends despite our different viewpoints over things. It would be boring if we all agreed. I do try to see others views and look to think why they think such a way. And my views are often probably daft. But everybody has the right to their viewpoint and even better if they can back it up which I try to do. But when somebody makes things up that I have alleged to have said and twist words then I will challenge them publically which some may see as abuse and not send them a PM. Personally Abuse doesnt bother me that much, but I can understand people who do get upset. Sometimes due to other "things" that you know about, I do sometimes post things just to help me get through, as you know. Anyway keep in good health as know you dont come on here as much

Simon genuine empathy transcends arguments about a game of football.
If people are decent, and you can rely on them, then not not much else matters especially a game.

Being betrayed by people you trust, by people wou have gone the extra mile for makes who can be in super league and who can't pretty trivial.