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Salford Trouble/Salford Takeover


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#161 keighley

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

The bulls debts were no where near as bad as Salfords are though and the RFL got a stadium out of bailing the bulls out. The RFL won't bail Salford out because there is nothing for them to gain from it. Also if they do bail Salford out why don't the rest in SL just spend whatever they want to the RFL will front the fee.


The League had possession of the stadium lease at Odsal long before the Bulls went belly up, so that;s not an issue.

What's in it for the league is the maintanance of a prescence in a metropolis which used to to be league stronghold, Salford, Swinton, Broughton, Oldham and Rochdale and even Stockport used to be big players from the greater Mmanchester area. This is preservation of a major cog in the heartlands or former heartlands of the game. There is a brand new stadium for showcasing not only league games but International Games, World Cup games and Cup semi finals etc, not some rotting dump in Bradford. Manchester/Salford is a major media and polulation centre. If the game is projected as a Northern based fortress, we should not be demolishing a major gateway to the said North.

As in the Bradford scenario, any league ownership should be just a temporary arrangement until a suitable owner could be found. Don't start nattering on about precedents being set for all clubs to follow the same path, the precedent was set when the Bradford takeover was a serious proposition. The NBA bought the New Orleans franchise on 2010 and ran it until selling it to a new owner in 2011. They also made a profit on the deal, so a league takeover of Salford could be a good move for the preservation of a SL club and maybe a profitable transaction into the bargain.

As has been demonstrated the curve for Salford's attendances is towards the upside, just not enough to make the club sustainable. If the club is saved this trend might result in eventual fiscal viability for the club.



#162 thundergaz

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:43 PM

The League had possession of the stadium lease at Odsal long before the Bulls went belly up, so that;s not an issue.

What's in it for the league is the maintanance of a prescence in a metropolis which used to to be league stronghold, Salford, Swinton, Broughton, Oldham and Rochdale and even Stockport used to be big players from the greater Mmanchester area. This is preservation of a major cog in the heartlands or former heartlands of the game. There is a brand new stadium for showcasing not only league games but International Games, World Cup games and Cup semi finals etc, not some rotting dump in Bradford. Manchester/Salford is a major media and polulation centre. If the game is projected as a Northern based fortress, we should not be demolishing a major gateway to the said North.

As in the Bradford scenario, any league ownership should be just a temporary arrangement until a suitable owner could be found. Don't start nattering on about precedents being set for all clubs to follow the same path, the precedent was set when the Bradford takeover was a serious proposition. The NBA bought the New Orleans franchise on 2010 and ran it until selling it to a new owner in 2011. They also made a profit on the deal, so a league takeover of Salford could be a good move for the preservation of a SL club and maybe a profitable transaction into the bargain.

As has been demonstrated the curve for Salford's attendances is towards the upside, just not enough to make the club sustainable. If the club is saved this trend might result in eventual fiscal viability for the club.


Ok I agree with some of that. I take it your a cougars fan? If so if your club was in this mess would your previous post be along the same lines for your club? I don't want to see any club go out of business but I also don't want to keep seeing the RFL bailing teams out because of poor management etc.

#163 shaun mc

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:45 PM

The League had possession of the stadium lease at Odsal long before the Bulls went belly up, so that;s not an issue.

What's in it for the league is the maintanance of a prescence in a metropolis which used to to be league stronghold, Salford, Swinton, Broughton, Oldham and Rochdale and even Stockport used to be big players from the greater Mmanchester area. This is preservation of a major cog in the heartlands or former heartlands of the game. There is a brand new stadium for showcasing not only league games but International Games, World Cup games and Cup semi finals etc, not some rotting dump in Bradford. Manchester/Salford is a major media and polulation centre. If the game is projected as a Northern based fortress, we should not be demolishing a major gateway to the said North.

As in the Bradford scenario, any league ownership should be just a temporary arrangement until a suitable owner could be found. Don't start nattering on about precedents being set for all clubs to follow the same path, the precedent was set when the Bradford takeover was a serious proposition. The NBA bought the New Orleans franchise on 2010 and ran it until selling it to a new owner in 2011. They also made a profit on the deal, so a league takeover of Salford could be a good move for the preservation of a SL club and maybe a profitable transaction into the bargain.

As has been demonstrated the curve for Salford's attendances is towards the upside, just not enough to make the club sustainable. If the club is saved this trend might result in eventual fiscal viability for the club.


The RFL also had wind of Bradfords financial difficulties during the licensing audit procedure.
Thats what those who were defending the RFL's stance over Bradford were saying, and all was ok.
Without knowing the exact detail the purchase of Odsal gave Bradford a short term cashflow benefit. So also at that point, the RFL had knowledge of Bradfords perilious situation (or they should have done). However, the sale of Odsal also gave rise to a VAT debt, which then caused Bradford problems later.
So for me it was all inter-twined and Thungaz's point is very relevant in that there is nothing in the Salford situation that the RFL can get out of it.
Oh, apart from purchase the Barton Stadium and charge Sale £5m p.a to use it ;)

#164 keighley

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

Ok I agree with some of that. I take it your a cougars fan? If so if your club was in this mess would your previous post be along the same lines for your club? I don't want to see any club go out of business but I also don't want to keep seeing the RFL bailing teams out because of poor management etc.


The RFL saved Cougars by buying the lease to Cougar Park from the CoOp and allowing the team to play there and now the club is standing on it's own feet. It's some compensation for being shafted by being denied SL.

I am of the opinion that failed clubs, like Bradford, should be demoted and made to work their way back. That would mean a decent way of progressing to SL however, not the current ring fenced impasse.
Taking over the running of a Cc club would cost a lot less than taking over A SL outfit also.

#165 thundergaz

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:02 PM

The RFL saved Cougars by buying the lease to Cougar Park from the CoOp and allowing the team to play there and now the club is standing on it's own feet. It's some compensation for being shafted by being denied SL.

I am of the opinion that failed clubs, like Bradford, should be demoted and made to work their way back. That would mean a decent way of progressing to SL however, not the current ring fenced impasse.
Taking over the running of a Cc club would cost a lot less than taking over A SL outfit also.


You have hit the nail on the head for me by saying they should be demoted they should be even if the RFL bail them out. They still should be made to pay for the mis management etc. Also I'm not one of these people that believe SL would be a worse place without etc that's just a load of rubbish for me. I believe any club with the time the SL clubs have had in SL would make a viable SL club given the time the rest have had with no relegation etc.

#166 Johnoco

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:16 PM

According to reports, John Wilkinson is 'confident' that new investors will come forward and claims some already have expressed interest.

#167 Saintslass

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:19 PM

According to reports, John Wilkinson is 'confident' that new investors will come forward and claims some already have expressed interest.

However, based upon the comments John Wilkinson has made in the recent past when compared to the truth as it is now revealed, I don't really think anyone can believe what John Wilkinson says.

#168 flyingking

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

The report in full http://www.bbc.co.uk...league/20698051



Salford City Reds: Wilkinson optimistic over new investment

Salford chairman John Wilkinson is still confident of attracting new investment, despite Salford City Council rejecting a £1.5m rescue plan.
Wilkinson had put together a deal that would see the council loan £750,000, a figure to then be matched by Salford City Stadium owners Peel Holdings.
The council have now decided not to spend such a sum in the current financial climate.
But Wilkinson insists: "The club just has a short-term cash flow problem.
In a statement issued on Wednesday evening, Wilkinson added: "The board and myself were obviously very disappointed to learn the outcome of the vote taken by the city council's cabinet yesterday, but we respect and understand the difficult position they were in, given the backdrop of budget cutbacks.



"During negotiations, the club has been unable to speak freely and has had to respect the process, and it has been frustrating having to sit back and leave incorrect and at times scurrilous speculation unanswered.
"If these negotiations could have been brought to a successful conclusion, as we all expected they would be, it would have secured the future of the club, however this now opens the door to other opportunities.
"The club's business plan remains solid, viable and verified by leading accounting firms."
The Reds, who are faced with a tax bill in the region of £50,000, are due in court to hear a winding-up petition on 7 January, while they are also trying to settle debts with two of their former players, Vinnie Anderson and Luke Patten.
Wilkinson had earlier said he hopes to have new cash in place within a week, reiterating his belief that the Reds, Manchester's only Super League club, were an attractive proposition.
"Salford City Reds remains a great investment opportunity for new blood with an appetite for top-level sport," he said.
"As a board we were fully committed to the deal on the table as everything had led us to believe that it would be concluded positively.
"As a result of yesterday's decision we are forced to reopen investigations into other avenues, and remain confident that with everyone pulling together in the same direction - board members, supporters, players, coaches and staff - that a positive conclusion can still be reached within the required timeframe."
Salford, who now share their Barton Bridge home with rugby union side Sale Sharks, are due to kick off next season in 50 days' time, with a home game against Wigan on Friday 1 February.

Edited by flyingking, 12 December 2012 - 08:23 PM.

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#169 shaun mc

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

Sounds like a standard PR statement so that creditors, players, other employees and sponsors don't get even more twitchy than they already must be!

#170 Les Tonks Sidestep

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

...being shafted by being denied SL......


Not that old chestnut again. Neither Keighley nor Batley were denied a 'rightful' SL place. They effectively finished 15th and 16th in the complete standings and would have replaced Hull and Donny in Div 1 the following season. Only the top 10 of Div 1 (together with London and Paris) went into the first SL. There were 4 other clubs ahead of them in the pecking order: Fev, Salford, Wakefield and Widnes.

#171 The Parksider

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:42 PM

Not that old chestnut again. Neither Keighley nor Batley were denied a 'rightful' SL place. They effectively finished 15th and 16th in the complete standings and would have replaced Hull and Donny in Div 1 the following season. Only the top 10 of Div 1 (together with London and Paris) went into the first SL. There were 4 other clubs ahead of them in the pecking order: Fev, Salford, Wakefield and Widnes.


Not quite true.

You forgot to add the bit where Keighley were horribly deep in debt.

#172 The Parksider

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:47 PM

As has been demonstrated the curve for Salford's attendances is towards the upside, just not enough to make the club sustainable. If the club is saved this trend might result in eventual fiscal viability for the club.


What upward trend?

Salfords crowds have dropped over the years of SL and stagnated. The new ground had a +20% effect but the club has to start winning games to get fans.

If you think the "new ground effect" continues year on year then why aren't Hull on 42,000 crowds

#173 Ant

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:21 PM

I think that is a bit of a red herring with respect. Friday nights haven't done Leeds and a number of other clubs any harm. Headingley is packed with kids on a Friday night.


The clubs that it has worked for have something else to counter it - success.
People will come no matter when the time kick off is

When you are trying to grow support, its a killer.

#174 Padge

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:53 PM

When you are trying to grow support, its a killer.

Why hasn't it stopped all the other clubs that have grown support and played Friday nights.

Friday night may not suit you, but it suits me fine. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't suit everyone.

Edited by Padge, 12 December 2012 - 10:54 PM.


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#175 keighley

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:58 AM

What upward trend?

Salfords crowds have dropped over the years of SL and stagnated. The new ground had a +20% effect but the club has to start winning games to get fans.

If you think the "new ground effect" continues year on year then why aren't Hull on 42,000 crowds


The ground has only been open for one season and the attendances at Salford have gone up for three straight years. Perhaps there is still some mileage in the new ground effect. A decent team getting to the playoffs or a good cup run together with some decent marketing might also help. Only last week on the Oldham thread you were lauding the possibility of Salford becoming a major SL player representing the whole of the Manchester megopolis. Are you now playing a second fiddle of denigrating the Salford franchise.Make up your mind or remember your previous arguments and dont just post to oppose anypoint I make.

Hull will be on 42,000 crowds when your dream of a one city team for them is achieved on the removal of Hull KR in the big push to downsize to 10 clubs. I thought you knew that when you were pushing that particular fantasy.

#176 keighley

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:02 AM

Not quite true.

You forgot to add the bit where Keighley were horribly deep in debt.


They would have been prime candidates for SL then along with Bradford, Salford, Wakefield, Hull,Crusaders and all the other serial debtors up there.

#177 The Parksider

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:02 AM

The ground has only been open for one season and the attendances at Salford have gone up for three straight years. Perhaps there is still some mileage in the new ground effect.


Perhaps? I think you get the point.

No.... forget "last 3 years" it was a trick you fell for.

One year had that 10K last crowd in it to skew it.

Up to the ground closing attendances steadily fell/stagnated.

#178 Ant

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:15 AM

Why hasn't it stopped all the other clubs that have grown support and played Friday nights.

Friday night may not suit you, but it suits me fine. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't suit everyone.


Which other teams play almost exclusively on a Friday night?

I'd suggest the ones with best crowds are the ones with most success, the success meaning people will come no matter the time.

Id suggest it really only suits a small demographic of the RL world, but people will make exceptions to follow a successful club or they a die hard supporters anyway.

Floating fans won't make those accommodations so without success you won't gain major crowd increases...

#179 shrek

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:58 AM

Which other teams play almost exclusively on a Friday night?

I'd suggest the ones with best crowds are the ones with most success, the success meaning people will come no matter the time.

Id suggest it really only suits a small demographic of the RL world, but people will make exceptions to follow a successful club or they a die hard supporters anyway.

Floating fans won't make those accommodations so without success you won't gain major crowd increases...

There's pros and cons on both sides, for me there's a valid debate to be had around kick off times and the final decision should be taken out of the clubs hands as to what day they play on and should be a strategic decision made by the governing body. There's a whole host of considerations such as media coverage (paper deadlines are pretty tight on Fridays for inclusion on Saturday), robbing TV matches of potential viewers by going head to head with them, risking losing Sunday afternoon local radio coverage due to a lack of things to cover are just a few off the top of my head.

On the flip side you've player welfare and the fact crowds are growing, obviously we'll never know if or how quickly they'd have grown if we'd only moved TV games from the Sunday slots, not unless any of you have a crystal ball!

#180 Griff

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

....paper deadlines are pretty tight on Fridays for inclusion on Saturday......


Funny. I have no problem finding reports of the previous evening's soccer games.
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