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The SKY contract for RL - good or bad?


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#61 Johnoco

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

And Australia have stood still all this time have they?

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

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#62 shaun mc

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:26 PM

And just about double the SuperLeague attendances.

Although if you would like to see a bunch of northern part-timers get beat by 100 points by both the full time Aussies and Kiwi's then thats your prerogative I suppose. I strongly suggest there wouldn't be 142,999 others there with you though.


Yes SL attendances have gone up with the resulting increase in income streams that it brings.
You've concluded that I want to go back to part-time RL, I've never said that I would, and I don't believe that we should. Its still an option though, well within the subject of this thread and can be debated on here even if you don't agree with it - its a forum not a dictatorship.

#63 Padge

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:27 PM

Yes, the Sky money isn't relative to international attendances. However the £250m is when as Northern Sol points out we were closer in 1994 and fans had hope we may get that series win. After £250m being made available to amongst other things develop players and academies and structures and training methods, we are further away from Australia, which could also adversely affect attendances

Rain affects attendances.

The whole thing is far too complex to pin it on one thing.

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#64 JohnM

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

Its all about change, how to handle it and how to manage it. We are in changing times and it can be uncomfortable. Looking at the change management curve, we are all possibly at different points, with some still at stage 1 -shock and denial, and some at stage 2, anger and fear. When Lobby etc get to stage 4, there will be no greater advocates for our game as it is today.


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#65 shaun mc

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:35 PM

John - i'd contend that the game is always on a number of change curves at any one time!

#66 Padge

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

Its all about change, how to handle it and how to manage it. We are in changing times and it can be uncomfortable. Looking at the change management curve, we are all possibly at different points, with some still at stage 1 -shock and denial, and some at stage 2, anger and fear. When Lobby etc get to stage 4, there will be no greater advocates for our game as it is today.


Posted Image

If you look at the attendance charts I posted elsewhere they fairly follow that curve.

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#67 JohnM

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

John - i'd contend that the game is always on a number of change curves at any one time!


I agree entirely. it does, though help to understand why we all take the positions we do. Lobby seems to be trapped in stage 1 and 2 at the same time:shock, denial, anger AND fear. That can't be good for him!

#68 The Parksider

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:46 AM

One could argue that the RFL may have been able to build a broader portfolio for the game. Instead of focussing just on SL, they could have sold different competitions, different packages on different formats. In the long run they may have had more money.


I don't remember the RFL/SLE ever finding any serious bidders beyond SKY.

When the SKY talks broke down on the second contract the RFL/SLE spoke about how they were not tied to SKY and could stay professional and would explore other avenues.

That was when they had talks with the BBC as the only alternative, the BBC could not offer a quarter of what SKY were offering at the time. The RFL/SLE had to scuttle back to SKY tail between legs.

The question of new sports minded stations coming into the market was always one where could they compete with SKY's offer? Could we sell them something other than SL??.

In the end I've never come across any serious contender for the rights to RL, and they have been raised and discussed on here, unless you can name who they may have been?

#69 The Parksider

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:56 AM

If we can't sell the game in towns such as Oldham that have played the game in one form or another since day one how can we expect to come up with a formula to sell the game outside of the heartlands?


I don't see we can without the money to elevate a London, Gateshead or a south wales on to a par with a Wigan, a Hull or a Leeds. These clubs could get as good a crowd as many SL clubs at top level when they were competing but for each of them that was little more than a one off (C.crusaders battle with Saints, Gatehead's one season, London's first in SL - sixth best supported club).

So we have to do our best with limited funds.

That returns us to the question - where would the game be today if we had limited ourselves by taking £150,000,000 less money off TV this last 17 years, so that all clubs could stand shoulder to shoulder??

#70 The Parksider

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:05 AM

Clearly the number of paying spectators has gone up, but the big win comes from the huge amount of money that has been injected into the game by the 150000 to 200000 viewers of the game on Sky.


Well we can't count them twice John?

The money the armchair fan pays for admission to Superleague games is in essence the SKY contract money.

It's a good analogy. One could argue that without the SKY contract we'd lose 150,000 paying RL fans??

However armchair BBC fans would also pay through the license.

So the question remains how would the game have done if it had not received the extra monies SKY gave it over the BBC.

#71 The Parksider

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:08 AM

Can't say that I'm an expert when it comes to the fine detail of the sky contract


Well SKY money to Superleague clubs is about £1.2M a year.

SL clubs need to pay wages of about £1.6M a year to compete

So really without SKY money there'd be no professional clubs.

That's it simplified if that help you to answer the question.

#72 JohnM

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

So the question remains how would the game have done if it had not received the extra monies SKY gave it over the BBC.


I have posted my answer a good few number of posts ago.

#73 The Parksider

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:49 AM

I have posted my answer a good few number of posts ago.


And I thank you for that and was suggesting the question remains live for others to answer.

#74 Pacific RL

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:40 AM

Been listening to this scenario for 60 years, of course the game would exist, both codes would, what the TV money has done is kept the codes apart. Sky is quiet happy "drip feeding" both codes with small contracts, giving them a year round product to fill their screens with.
Semi Pro rugby league (which would be the way the game would go) is and was a great product, no it wouldn't die eve if Union "wiped the floor with us" as you say, It certainly cant wipe the floor with us as a specticle, never will, no matter how many rules they change or how many "sugar daddies" they have willing to to loose £millions.

I don't believe in that at all anymore and have been for a long time now. I believe that all sports or all football codes are great products as long as there are fans who supports them just as passionately as ours. I come from a region where union is very strong and no matter how many times our game is shown on tv it still struggle for players and spectators.
I remember watching rugby league from the UK on free to air tv in NZ back in the 80's now its mainly all on pay TV.

#75 Dave T

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:19 AM

Our broadcasting structure is very similar to the other mainstream sports in this country.

Top division club league - RL, Football, RU and Cricket are all on satellite channels, many with Sky Sports, the biggest of them.

International Level - All apart from cricket have this split amongst terrestrial and satellite channels. RL uses BBC and Sky Sports - the two biggest players in these markets.

In short - I'm not sure what choice we had - the BBC don't broadcast regular league games for any sport any more.

#76 The Parksider

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:57 AM

I don't believe in that at all anymore and have been for a long time now. I believe that all sports or all football codes are great products as long as there are fans who supports them just as passionately as ours.


Indeed.

But the problem is the passion for semi professional Rugby is much lesser than the passion for professional rugby in either code.

The question remains where would our top division be if it turned semi pro?

How many fans would peel away is a tough one to answer????

Let's be honest about our passion by comparing crowds when a club is doing well in SL to when it is doing badly in CC.

The loss of passion is very high indeed.

Would the fans of the top clubs retain the passion to attend matches, would crowds go back to 1995 levels, would other factors click in like the loss of the top players to union? A sense of decline? Rich men walking away?? the idea RL has no top clubs if it has no professional division?? Or are we all really that passionate that we'd stick by the game in enough numbers??

The passion for GB has fallen, just how further could that fall?? However if our best players are all in Australia honing their skills a la NZ's players maybe it will rise if this improves results??

Are we all really that passionate that we'd stick by the game in enough numbers to stem a decline??

Edited by The Parksider, 10 December 2012 - 11:07 AM.


#77 The Parksider

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

It is a well known that that the RFL (By appointing IMG) and not dealing direct as before totally p----d off vic wakling at sky who ctually offered less money in the end as a punishment to the RFL going the IMG route,in fact it was one of the reason,s why sky went out and signed up the H cup at the time as a backup.There is no alternative at present ESPN could not offer the money SKY do,BT have spent all the budget on premiership soccer and PREMIER SPORTS only offer a production only deal NO CASH.CM


Well that answers Ackroman's point. He may wish to come back.

Would the BBC be happy to sign up the Rugby League "league programme" if we went back to being a semi pro first division??

They want us as a professional sport now, but will they want a semi professional sport? Will the Challenge cup be a spectacle anymore as it is with professional clubs today or as it was in the nineties when top RugbyPlayers from both codes played in it??

A return to semi pro would not put top RL or RU stars on the Wembley stage anymore??

Would the Beeb still want the cup??

#78 Southstander13

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

How is the World Club Challenge treated by TV companies? Is it rolled in to the Sky Super League package?

Usually a competitive game in front of a big crowd, would be a good platform to showcase the sport if it was shown on BBC, its a slight tangent but just wondered if its ever been looked at as an individual event to be sold to broadcasters?

#79 The Parksider

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

How is the World Club Challenge treated by TV companies? Is it rolled in to the Sky Super League package?

Usually a competitive game in front of a big crowd, would be a good platform to showcase the sport if it was shown on BBC, its a slight tangent but just wondered if its ever been looked at as an individual event to be sold to broadcasters?


SKY show it so I cannot see how we can deplete SKY's schedule and get away with it!!

ANYWAY the question is about what would happen if we went back to semi-pro and I'd guess the WCC would not survive?

#80 Ackroman

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:19 PM

Well that answers Ackroman's point. He may wish to come back.



"What if" threads are OK if you are prepared to allow contributors to speculate within the bounds of firstly possibility and then probability.

However you've already hijacked your own thread by dismissing all possibilities other than one so what's the point?

Your limited thinking that a void left by SKY would never be/ will never be filled by anything or anyone else thus leading to an inevitable reduction of RL to a two bit northern diversion similar to morris dancing is laughable. I have no desire to contribute further on this.

I also note you've clearly made your mind up on the answer and derailed the thread further by limiting the question to "what would RL look like as a part time sport" already.

Enjoy.




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