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Are England better than the Kiwis?


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#1 RSN

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

I know they're higher up in the rankings and we always say we're behind the Aussies but are we better than the kiwis. We had three players in Rugby League Worlds XIII and in the world ratings we had 12 different players compared to their 4. So are we better than them?

#2 Futtocks

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

In recent tournaments, they've raised their game in Finals, arguably beyond England's level. However, in ANZAC tests, they have often looked a weaker force.

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#3 roughyedspud

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

depends whos playing at home....

the kiwis have'nt beat us here since 2005...

likewise.....we can't beat them down under...

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#4 walter sobchak

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:58 PM

The kiwis in my opinion are ahead of England and are more than a match for the Aussies as recent world cups and tri/four nations tournaments have proven. The new Zealand warriors playing in the NRL and every NRL club having large contingents of kiwis in both their first grade squads and under 20's squads helps massively, plus there are a number of amazingly talented kiwis establishing themselves in first grade rugby in the NRL like Kieran foran, Shaun Johnson, Kevin Locke, Sam kaisino and others just on the verge like glen fishiahi, Jason tamalolo, roger tuivasa-sheck.

#5 Fax1978

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

Excellent post Walter and totally agree ther is a nice conveyor belt of kiwis and islanders coming through the NRL systems. If all these players played for their nations of birth and if the aus stopped approaching everyone who has a good season to offer them soo and kangaroo jumpers I would say that there would be more nations able to challenge eng and aus more regularly!

#6 Dave T

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

I think we are pretty level. We have the edge on them over here, they have the edge over there.

#7 petero

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:24 PM

Not really.

For two of their most recent visits, ie, the whitewash series under Tony Smith and the last four Nations, we did not see the best players that the Kiwi's can offer over here. Added to that there were some serious in-camp arguments, or so it was rumoured and furthermore, in all honesty having viewed the NRL for the past 6 or 7 seasons I would have to say that should the Kiwi's turn up with all of their best available, they will prove far more than a threat to the Aussies, let alone England.

#8 RSN

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:41 PM

So why arnt these kiwis in any of the world XIII or world player ratings or shortlisted for the golden boot? Are the selectors missing something?

#9 Dave T

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

Why are they always understrength when we win?

#10 1976PMJwires

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:53 PM

Not really.

For two of their most recent visits, ie, the whitewash series under Tony Smith and the last four Nations, we did not see the best players that the Kiwi's can offer over here. Added to that there were some serious in-camp arguments, or so it was rumoured and furthermore, in all honesty having viewed the NRL for the past 6 or 7 seasons I would have to say that should the Kiwi's turn up with all of their best available, they will prove far more than a threat to the Aussies, let alone England.

So why arnt these kiwis in any of the world XIII or world player ratings or shortlisted for the golden boot? Are the selectors missing something?



Great point and well made..... I can't wait for his response!!!

#11 hutch

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

Excellent post Walter and totally agree ther is a nice conveyor belt of kiwis and islanders coming through the NRL systems. If all these players played for their nations of birth and if the aus stopped approaching everyone who has a good season to offer them soo and kangaroo jumpers I would say that there would be more nations able to challenge eng and aus more regularly!


You do realise most of these 'islanders' as you put it were born in Australia, and a fair few of your kiwis as well. Uate and tamou are the only two players who shouldn't have been allowed to play for Australia, and tamou has been there since he was 13 and hasn't played for another country.

To answer the op, I think England are a better team than nz, although may be lacking in the halves and overall depth.

#12 roughyedspud

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

you think hutch??

benji & foran has'nt worked,the only test they've won has been againt wales iirc

benji & johnson appear to cancel each other out

id say we have much more depth and options with sinfield,chase,myler,mcguire,brough etc

and the england knight is adding to our overall depth.....and don't for get all the england regulars that did'nt play this autumn...burgess,graham,roby,reed,widdop etc..

im very happy with our progress at the moment and would'nt have a problem installing us as clear 2nd favourites for next years world cup..

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#13 HappyDave

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:10 PM

and the england knight is adding to our overall depth.....and don't for get all the england regulars that did'nt play this autumn...burgess,graham,roby,reed,widdop etc..

im very happy with our progress at the moment and would'nt have a problem installing us as clear 2nd favourites for next years world cup..


Bang on! I hope Lomax kicks on as I can't stand Chase. He's shown his true colours with the thuggery against Ropati, plus he's a liability, as he has shown a few times in an England shirt.

Both the 4N wins in 2009 and 2011 we're against strong Kiwi squads. On their day I think England are better that the Kiwis. I'd say the loss in 2010 was down to McNamara ballsing up the squad selection (playing too many players out of position).
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#14 Wiltshire Rhino

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:13 AM

England think they might beat the Aussies while the Kiwis know they can beat the Aussies so the Kiwis are slighty ahead on England but only on attitude.

#15 roughyedspud

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:24 AM

id suggest the current crop of england players think they can beat australia too...they just need that first win.

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#16 Wiltshire Rhino

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:00 AM

id suggest the current crop of england players think they can beat australia too...they just need that first win.


That win is the big one. Until then it's still "think we can" instead of "know we can".

Hopefully one day it'll become "we expect to win!"

#17 Viking Warrior

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:08 AM

send them rangi chase back and we would be streets ahead of them.........
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#18 Southstander13

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:49 AM

The last few posts are totally correct, its all about our mental attitude. Im genuinely excited about our chances when you look at our full strength team, and the bond the players seem to be creating between themselves is going to be great for the camp next year.

Its all about knowing we can win it rather than thinking we can. We know we can beat New Zealand, weve done it a number of times before. Like has been said, its that first win against Australia we need, if we can get that in opening game next year then we could be in for an exciting few weeks!!

#19 flyingking

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:07 AM

The last few posts are totally correct, its all about our mental attitude. Im genuinely excited about our chances when you look at our full strength team, and the bond the players seem to be creating between themselves is going to be great for the camp next year.

Its all about knowing we can win it rather than thinking we can. We know we can beat New Zealand, weve done it a number of times before. Like has been said, its that first win against Australia we need, if we can get that in opening game next year then we could be in for an exciting few weeks!!

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#20 JohnM

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:22 AM






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