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Wakefield and Doncaster join forces.


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#21 Matt J

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:11 PM

Doesnt look as good as the deal between Batley and Huddersfield.... but at least its a 2 way deal.

Cummins Out.


#22 The Parksider

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:24 PM

All the momentum that Doncaster have gained since their present board has taken over has been killed and now they will be content to be Wakefield's A team , drifting along in the Championship with no further ambitions in mind. All for the loan of 4 players. Oh well, c'est la vie.


What momentum?

Come away from the very admirable dream I like to share with you in more private moments, that the Dons will one day march into Superleague. They marched into the first division in 1994 and when the great Audley Pennant planted the ball over the Leeds try line before 6,440 fans one should not have been forgiven thinking that this could be the start of something big.

But not Lyndsay, he knew all about the lack of resources and infrastructure in Donacaster and Sheffield that remains today despite the idea that they are “rebuilding” or “regrouping” in the Championships today to “get ready” for Superleague. These soccer towns are nuts neither club will crack in our lifetimes even if we were kids again.

I do hope that me setting out the 6,440 crowd Dons pulled won’t be a handle you use to continue to champion them for Superleague with. If so try these handles – Barcelona 18,000, Paris 10,000, Crusaders 10,000. Bit more potential there than in Doncaster don’t you think?

Now lets look at a grand old club Hunslet. We were champions of the “league of death” not long ago and Lobbygobbler led the way cheering us on for Superleague – “room for two SL clubs in Leeds” was the cry. More dreaming on a public forum – it shouldn’t be allowed, it’s unhealthy for reasonable debate.

We had no money. I knew that first hand, but Lobby was of course “entitled to his opinion” (for some on here an entitlement that should be protected from challenge). We scraped up what we could not afford and went on to lose a respectable 15 out of 20 games and pull in the lowest CC crowds as a result. Momemtum?? – don’t make me laugh.

The game needs this partnership so Donny can survive respectfully and Wakefield can go on to recapture former glories and take on the Leeds, Wigans and Hulls.

#23 keighley

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

What momentum?

Come away from the very admirable dream I like to share with you in more private moments, that the Dons will one day march into Superleague. They marched into the first division in 1994 and when the great Audley Pennant planted the ball over the Leeds try line before 6,440 fans one should not have been forgiven thinking that this could be the start of something big.

But not Lyndsay, he knew all about the lack of resources and infrastructure in Donacaster and Sheffield that remains today despite the idea that they are “rebuilding” or “regrouping” in the Championships today to “get ready” for Superleague. These soccer towns are nuts neither club will crack in our lifetimes even if we were kids again.

I do hope that me setting out the 6,440 crowd Dons pulled won’t be a handle you use to continue to champion them for Superleague with. If so try these handles – Barcelona 18,000, Paris 10,000, Crusaders 10,000. Bit more potential there than in Doncaster don’t you think?

Now lets look at a grand old club Hunslet. We were champions of the “league of death” not long ago and Lobbygobbler led the way cheering us on for Superleague – “room for two SL clubs in Leeds” was the cry. More dreaming on a public forum – it shouldn’t be allowed, it’s unhealthy for reasonable debate.

We had no money. I knew that first hand, but Lobby was of course “entitled to his opinion” (for some on here an entitlement that should be protected from challenge). We scraped up what we could not afford and went on to lose a respectable 15 out of 20 games and pull in the lowest CC crowds as a result. Momemtum?? – don’t make me laugh.

The game needs this partnership so Donny can survive respectfully and Wakefield can go on to recapture former glories and take on the Leeds, Wigans and Hulls.


So what do Doncaster get out of this that allows them to survive respectfully, whilst tipping their forelock to their SL masters.? Is it four extra players ? whoop de doo. Is it the luxury of using the facilities at Belle Vue instead of the sub standard ones at the Keepmote ? double whoop de doo. Is it the 3,000 Wakefield spectators who will flock down the road every week to watch their A team, yeah, right.

Do they get any money from Wakefield.? No. Does the Wakefield expertise in Marketing go so far as to push Doncaster from their department ? I bet it dosn't.

When Doncaster are looking to build on the good start they have made with stabilising their finances, winning the double in CC1 and moving up to the CC ( the momentum you were questioning ), by courting and looking for investors to push them onwards and uopwards a la Fev, is the fact that they are a feeder club/A team for Wakefield not a big negative. All for the reward of 4 under 20's players. Is that really a good deal?

What does it do for Wakefield.? Well it saves them a whole load of money by not having to fund a whole u 20s team. Is this a good deal for Doncaster?. You postulate that it enables them to survive, just how exactly.?

I see the great and wonderful OZ, aka Maurice Lyndsay has reared his head again in your thinking. This wise and wonderful leader was presiding over a terminally ill game with no clue as to how to stop the rot when Murdoch rode in from the South with his millions to bail him out, only because he was feuding with Kerry Packer. Maurice Lyndsay, don't make me laugh?

Hunslet. They had no money, no ground, no ambition, no fans and no hope and still don't. If you want to quote CC clubs, quote Fev, Halifax, Leigh, Barrow, Dewsbury and Crusaders and yes, Doncaster. Hunslet need some leadership, ambition and drive as is being shown at those clubs and things might improve. Even lowly Keighley got promoted from the group of death and upgraded their team enough to make the playoffs and scare the life out of Halifax at the Shay. Quoting a terminal loser like Hunslet does not make your argument.

RL can't suceed in soccer towns, you say. What like Wigan,Huddersfield, Hull, Leeds, Bradford and London. RL has managed to survive and become the major presence viz a viz soccer in Halifax, Barrow and Workington, all of whom used to be in the football league. That Sheffield, Doncaster, Oldham, Salford have a challenge of their hands from soccer is undeniable. It is not unsurmoutable. I notice that a huge soccer club in Toulouse has not stopped you from championing the SL application from the Toulouse RL club.

#24 Johnoco

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:30 PM

Looks like its years of struggle for Doncaster now, their years of trophies and glory will be just a distant memory. From now on it will be struggle after struggle, another bloody Sunday even.

:rolleyes:

#25 Gav Wilson

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:58 PM

s the fact that they are a feeder club/A team for Wakefield ... All for the reward of 4 under 20's players. Is that really a good deal?


Again, how can a club be classed as a feeder/A-Team with only 4-5 players in a 25-30 man squad at any given time?
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#26 thundergaz

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:15 PM

Again, how can a club be classed as a feeder/A-Team with only 4-5 players in a 25-30 man squad at any given time?


Gav I respect you and you have some very good informative views but this one is not one. The link ups mean they can cherry pick your players and no fee will be payed. So if you produce another brough etc would you be happy for him to leave for nothing? You remind me of an horse on this subject mate running around with blinkers on.

Edited by thundergaz, 14 December 2012 - 06:18 PM.


#27 Gav Wilson

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:18 PM

Gav I respect you and you have some very good informative views but this one is not one. The link ups mean they can cherry pick your players and no fee will be payed. So if you produce another brough etc would you be happy for him to leave for nothing? You remind me of an horse in this subject mate running around with blinkers on.


Brough did leave for nothing. As did Tom Lineham, who came through the Knights scholarship program.

The best players will always end up in SuperLeague so I don't have an issue with it. At least this way York actually get something out of the deal.
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#28 thundergaz

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

Brough did leave for nothing. As did Tom Lineham, who came through the Knights scholarship program.

The best players will always end up in SuperLeague so I don't have an issue with it. At least this way York actually get something out of the deal.


I agree some clubs have had no choice really in the matter in these financial times and I respect that but for them to turn round and say they are not feeder clubs I don't accept. Maybe York players will leave for nothing but IMO that's your BODs fault as they should sign them up earlier or for longer contracts so they can get a fee for the players.

#29 Gav Wilson

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:33 PM

I agree some clubs have had no choice really in the matter in these financial times and I respect that but for them to turn round and say they are not feeder clubs I don't accept. Maybe York players will leave for nothing but IMO that's your BODs fault as they should sign them up earlier or for longer contracts so they can get a fee for the players.


And what about players who demand a SuperLeague release clause in their contract? (Which is perfectly understandable I might add)

4-5 players in a 25-30 man squad does not a feeder club make.
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#30 keighley

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:35 PM

Again, how can a club be classed as a feeder/A-Team with only 4-5 players in a 25-30 man squad at any given time?


Because when Doncaster have deveoped the 4 under players iagreement.
nto SL quality players, they will be recalled from the A team to the SL team. They will be "fed" into the parent system for their betterment and there will be no gains for Doncaster from the whole
agreement.

Further, if it suits Wakefield, they will do this mid season, no matter maybe that Doncaster are vying for the of of CC. They will just sacrifce Doncaster's season for the greater glory of the Wildcats. They will be treated as what they are, a feeder team, an A team existing soley for the benefit of Wakefield.

This coming season, it will be 4 players. If the system proves of benefit to the SL club, they will surely extend it to 6,8,10 players. They will save themselves even more money and have to run even less development teams themselves. They will be able to use Doncaster to do that and they will destroy them as an independent club capable of achieving their own place in RL in the process.

#31 Gav Wilson

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:53 PM

Doncaster aren't developing the players though, they are loaning them. Wakefield are developing them.
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#32 The Parksider

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:58 PM

1. When Doncaster are looking to build on the good start they have made with stabilising their finances, winning the double in CC1 and moving up to the CC ( the momentum you were questioning ), by courting and looking for investors to push them onwards and uopwards a la Fev, is the fact that they are a feeder club/A team for Wakefield not a big negative.

2. I notice that a huge soccer club in Toulouse has not stopped you from championing the SL application from the Toulouse RL club.


1. Yes it's a big negative.

it's a hugely massive negative of gigantic proportions with knobs on if you have ambitions of Superleague.

Have you asked Donny if they plan to take the "A La Fev" route???

Did you ring the Donny club up, or EMail their chief executive???

Did the cheif exec say, Yes Mr. K it's a bummer this deal we have freely signed to???

Did you pledge to save them from this deal so they can look to new investors to take them into Superleague?

Who are these new investors?

It seems to me you have the same dream as me - that Donny will be day be in SL and be a big RL town.

Maybe Donny don't share that dream with us? :(

2. Yes I champion their inclusion, after all the basic requisite is there. They actually are applying and want to be in.

They said so......

So I dream of them becoming a catalans.

Alas we are a pair of sad old dreamers :(

But I make sure others want to be in my dreams first before dreaming in public :lol:

Edited by The Parksider, 14 December 2012 - 08:02 PM.


#33 timhammonds

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:01 PM

I am not in favour of these link ups but in this instance it seems a good move,

Doncaster get to loan/DR 4 players which it seems they already did last season and look at the success they had,
Having finally reached the Cc they need to compete to stay there, why would they not want to augment their squad with 4 SL fringe players? Most everyone else is doing it and certainly all their 'competitors' are.
What harm can it do for the Donny coaching team and players to train with/learn from an established SL club who may be sleeping giants just waking up and who punched above their weight last season
Having had a succesful season and hopefully got a few more fans interested they can now develop that interest by trumpetting the visit of an SL club for an exhibition match and maybe make a few quid too


Wakefield get to develop 4 of their lesser squad members by keeping them match active in the Cc until they are ready to break into the SL side
They get to appeal to the Donny area as the local SL club
And most importantly they get to play with the big boys as a bigger club taking a smaller club under their wing, they would not like to be seen as a lesser set up next time the SL licenses are doled out

#34 The Parksider

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:07 AM

an established SL club who may be sleeping giants just waking up.....


Yep that's Wakefield.

#35 keighley

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

Doncaster aren't developing the players though, they are loaning them. Wakefield are developing them.


Which team will they be playing, Wakefield or Doncaster ? Which coaching staff will be advising them, moulding thre strengths and weaknesses of their game etc. If they nimprove as a result of all that they will be returned to wakefield as developped, gfinished products. Doncaster are developing them on the cheap for the greater golry of Wakefield. Wakefield are the ones loaning them seeing as they are their players

1. Yes it's a big negative.

it's a hugely massive negative of gigantic proportions with knobs on if you have ambitions of Superleague.

Have you asked Donny if they plan to take the "A La Fev" route???

Did you ring the Donny club up, or EMail their chief executive???

Did the cheif exec say, Yes Mr. K it's a bummer this deal we have freely signed to???

Did you pledge to save them from this deal so they can look to new investors to take them into Superleague?

Who are these new investors?

It seems to me you have the same dream as me - that Donny will be day be in SL and be a big RL town.

Maybe Donny don't share that dream with us? :(

2. Yes I champion their inclusion, after all the basic requisite is there. They actually are applying and want to be in.

They said so......

So I dream of them becoming a catalans.

Alas we are a pair of sad old dreamers :(

But I make sure others want to be in my dreams first before dreaming in public :lol:


You do make the most stupid demands. Have you called all these people to find out that they don't EVER want to be in SL. Clearly the Chief Executive of Doncaster thinks this feeder club arrangement will be good for Doncaster or else he wouldn't have signed up to it. I have a right to differ with that opinion and I do. Wakefield are not philanthropists. They are doing this to save themselves money and get free coaching and playing time for some of their extra players. I am not sure that there will be any long term benefit for Doncaster from this arrangement. Time will tell.

Stop baiting me about who any investors might be. Obviously I have no clue or there might indeed be none. Overall though they keep coming out of the woodwork and Doncaster is big enough to have some lurking out there.

If the Doncaster management have no long term ambitions to be in SL, then that's up to them, but I would hope they want to take their club just as far as it can go and to me , ultinmtely that would be SL.

2. The point about Toulouse was that the City has a big soccer team and a big RU team but you still champion their SL application. That is in direct contrast for your disdain for any Doncaster or Sheffield ambitions for SL because the two cities have soccer teams playing there. You want to have your cake and eat it as well. Be consistent and don't change your basic arguments just to make debating points.

If people didn't have dreams and make them realities,the human race would still be living in caves, in Hunslet probably..

#36 keighley

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

I am not in favour of these link ups but in this instance it seems a good move,

Doncaster get to loan/DR 4 players which it seems they already did last season and look at the success they had,
Having finally reached the Cc they need to compete to stay there, why would they not want to augment their squad with 4 SL fringe players? Most everyone else is doing it and certainly all their 'competitors' are.
What harm can it do for the Donny coaching team and players to train with/learn from an established SL club who may be sleeping giants just waking up and who punched above their weight last season
Having had a succesful season and hopefully got a few more fans interested they can now develop that interest by trumpetting the visit of an SL club for an exhibition match and maybe make a few quid too


Wakefield get to develop 4 of their lesser squad members by keeping them match active in the Cc until they are ready to break into the SL side
They get to appeal to the Donny area as the local SL club
And most importantly they get to play with the big boys as a bigger club taking a smaller club under their wing, they would not like to be seen as a lesser set up next time the SL licenses are doled out


That's a logical take on the feeder team scenario and here might be a lot of truth in it. It's my fear though that rather than what you see happening what will really happen is that if Doncaster are challenging for honours in the CC, using the loan players, that challenge will be ruined on th spot with no regard for the Doncaster club by Wakefield deciding they will rdecall those players because they need them or just because they can.

Another negative for me is that if Doncaster see some promising juniors from their area and afre thinking to sign them, they may not as they can save the expense and risk by just waiting for the next crop of loanees from Wakefield. Furthermore if any of Doncaster's own players look like being SL quality, the cosy arrangements with Wakefield will have them signed for the SL club with little or no remuneration coming to Doncaster and further weakening the Doncaster team.

On a final note, most of Doncaster's major competitors are not taking the SL shilling. Fev, Halifax, Leigh, Sheffield and Keighley are going it alone.

I hope you afre right and the arrangements are mutually beneficial to both clubs but I have my doubts. Time will tell.

#37 Gav Wilson

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:15 PM

Which team will they be playing, Wakefield or Doncaster ? Which coaching staff will be advising them, moulding thre strengths and weaknesses of their game etc. If they nimprove as a result of all that they will be returned to wakefield as developped, gfinished products. Doncaster are developing them on the cheap for the greater golry of Wakefield. Wakefield are the ones loaning them seeing as they are their players


They will be playing for Doncaster on a Sunday, and training full time with Wakefield.

Wakefield are the ones who are developing them.
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#38 keighley

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:34 PM

They will be playing for Doncaster on a Sunday, and training full time with Wakefield.

Wakefield are the ones who are developing them.


Well, blow me down. So they are just expected to mesh into the Doncaster team structure and have no input from the Doncaster coaches and no rapport with the Doncaster players. This is such a positive move for Doncaster. Their team will play so much better because of that half a***ed arrangement.

#39 timhammonds

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

That's a logical take on the feeder team scenario and here might be a lot of truth in it. It's my fear though that rather than what you see happening what will really happen is that if Doncaster are challenging for honours in the CC, using the loan players, that challenge will be ruined on th spot with no regard for the Doncaster club by Wakefield deciding they will rdecall those players because they need them or just because they can.

Another negative for me is that if Doncaster see some promising juniors from their area and afre thinking to sign them, they may not as they can save the expense and risk by just waiting for the next crop of loanees from Wakefield. Furthermore if any of Doncaster's own players look like being SL quality, the cosy arrangements with Wakefield will have them signed for the SL club with little or no remuneration coming to Doncaster and further weakening the Doncaster team.

On a final note, most of Doncaster's major competitors are not taking the SL shilling. Fev, Halifax, Leigh, Sheffield and Keighley are going it alone.

I hope you afre right and the arrangements are mutually beneficial to both clubs but I have my doubts. Time will tell.



#40 timhammonds

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:46 PM

You flatter Doncaster,

i said MOST EVERYONE else is doing it, the competitors I reffered to are not Fev, Fax Leigh and co. more like Hunslet, Workington, Swinton, Doncaster, York and Haven
Donny have just been promoted, lets not get carried away, its really looking like 2 leagues within a league.




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