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Another mass shooting


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#41 Phil

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:16 PM

These people are obviously foreigners on holiday in the states.

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#42 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Ive just come off FB now.I was on a thread from a Philadelphia Daily news journalist he is called Will Bunch a leftist Liberal .Last two days he has had a different man not only defending gun ownership,but all kinds of insults against people campaigning for gun control.He mentioned all kinds of incidents what didnt involve guns and he said and you bunch of lily liberals are going on about 27 people all because 20 were children.Now he may well have been a sick troll,but I had to come away
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

#43 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:06 PM

How do we account for the fact that other nations have just as many firearms per capita but not the level of gun crime?


We don't because there are very few such countries and they usually have insanely gun crime rates. Switzerland is about the only exception.

#44 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:12 PM

We don't because there are very few such countries and they usually have insanely gun crime rates. Switzerland is about the only exception.

Canada? The Nordic countries?
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#45 PC

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:15 PM

What are the rules in Canada regarding assault rifles? Also, Switzerland is hardly comparable as gun ownership is linked to national service and the reserve forces I believe.

Which, coincidently, is the reason for the second amendment of the US constitution, which specifically mentions the word militia within it, in regards to gun ownership.

#46 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:27 PM

Canada? The Nordic countries?


None of them get close to the US in terms of gun ownership (only Yemen does).

#47 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:31 PM

What are the rules in Canada regarding assault rifles? Also, Switzerland is hardly comparable as gun ownership is linked to national service and the reserve forces I believe.


Some are allowed but magazines are restricted to 5 rounds.
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#48 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:11 PM

There is the solution. Don't limit gun ownership limit access to bullets. Cos without bullets a gun is an expensive stick

#49 WearyRhino

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:36 PM

We don't because there are very few such countries and they usually have insanely gun crime rates. Switzerland is about the only exception.


My mistake - last time I believe an urban myth and don't check the data.

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#50 Northern Sol

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

There is the solution. Don't limit gun ownership limit access to bullets. Cos without bullets a gun is an expensive stick


Problem is people are able to make their own bullets.

#51 Methven Hornet

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:08 PM

Some of the pro gun lobby in the states are saying it could have been prevented if the teachers were armed :wacko:


Or if the six year old children were armed. According to one American commentator on the radio this morning, this is being advocated by some.
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#52 Steve May

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:31 AM

What are the rules in Canada regarding assault rifles? Also, Switzerland is hardly comparable as gun ownership is linked to national service and the reserve forces I believe.

Which, coincidently, is the reason for the second amendment of the US constitution, which specifically mentions the word militia within it, in regards to gun ownership.


And a "well regulated" militia at that.

If people want to get all constitutional, it is made clear in there that "militia" doesn't mean groups of heavily armed people doing whatever the hell they like with their own guns, it means an organised trained, armed and disciplined militia under the control of the government.


Article One of the US constitution

The Congress shall have Power To...

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;


To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

[left]
[left]To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


That's me.  I'm done.


#53 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

And a "well regulated" militia at that.

If people want to get all constitutional, it is made clear in there that "militia" doesn't mean groups of heavily armed people doing whatever the hell they like with their own guns, it means an organised trained, armed and disciplined militia under the control of the government.


Article One of the US constitution

The Congress shall have Power To...

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

[left]
[left]To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;


Under the control of the individual state not the US government. The early US was a federation of independent countries.

#54 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

Under the control of the individual state not the US government. The early US was a federation of independent countries.


No quite being a pendant here but it was a CONfederation of independant countries,

quite a few americans died because on these extra three letters and their meaning

#55 Steve May

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:56 PM

Under the control of the individual state not the US government. The early US was a federation of independent countries.


It still looks pretty clear to me that the aim was a trained and organised militia under the ultimate supervision of the US Congress, not a free for all where anyone can carry a gun because they think it makes them look hard.

The second amendment reads

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

It seems to me that the odd interpretation of that comma in the middle kills 3,000 children and teenagers every year in the US.

That's me.  I'm done.


#56 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:08 PM

Of course the American constitution is set in stone and any alteration will not be tolerated. (except perhaps the 18th amendment, which has been repealed in full by the 21st)

#57 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

It still looks pretty clear to me that the aim was a trained and organised militia under the ultimate supervision of the US Congress, not a free for all where anyone can carry a gun because they think it makes them look hard.

The second amendment reads

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

It seems to me that the odd interpretation of that comma in the middle kills 3,000 children and teenagers every year in the US.


Not congress, the individual state. The original USA was not intended to be a unitary state.

#58 Northern Sol

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:10 PM

Some posts from a forum with lots of Yanks. I genuinely haven't made these up. One forumite went down the "cold dead hands" line.


TheLoneGunman: I've never threatened to move. The Founders didn't threaten to move either.

I wouldn't give up my life for a gun, I'd give it up for my ideals.


Gordy [Me]: Your ideals would die with you.


Gagenater: Good eliminationist stuff, but if 100 million other people agree with TheLoneGunman, then no idiots will attempt to disarm the American populace in the first place, and your sick fantasy of the government killing off it's citizens won't happen.


RedRalphWiggum: Sick fantasy? Me and Gordy don't agree on much but I'm pretty sure he is not fantasising about the American government butchering 100,000,000 civilians.

you people are insanely paranoid. I had no idea how frightened you are.


Gagenater: Then what part of 'your ideals will die with you' do you think that I misinterpreted? Gordy cleary wishes to kill (or to otherwise have dead) people who defend American gun laws as they now exist?


Edited by Northern Sol, 19 December 2012 - 10:13 PM.


#59 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Some posts from a forum with lots of Yanks. I genuinely haven't made these up. One forumite went down the "cold dead hands" line.

Lastnights early evening news they went round central philadelphia and there were still one or two people sayng "guns dont kill, its people who kill"
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

#60 JohnM

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:20 PM

Sound familiar? There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.




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