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Another mess at academy level thanks to the clubs and RFL


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#21 gingerjon

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:50 PM

A league which two years ago was about 13 clubs and has been allowed to rot.

Is the NCL really built on 21 and 22 years olds who came through the academy system of pro' clubs? If not, how would it collapse?

And once again, the question which no-one seems to want to answer:

Are we all happy with the loud and clear message from the RFL that 23 semi-professional RL clubs outside SL have to do nothing whatsoever in terms of player development??

Just pack in all your teams expect your first team and sit back and live off SL scraps??


My reaction is that there's no message from the RFL here beyond panic. They aren't telling the 23 clubs outside Super League that they have no role to play, they are basically saying, "######, is that the situation? Well, we better, erm, make a decision then ..."

I'd prefer your idea because it would indicate some form of strategy, albeit one I think that's misguided.

How we're meant to develop any coherent plan for rugby league at any level when Super League, the Championship, the RFL, BARLA, NCL, individual leagues and clubs all seem to have completely contradictory agendas and are happy to self destruct to prove a point I haven't the first idea though.
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#22 marklaspalmas

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:02 PM

My reaction is that there's no message from the RFL here beyond panic. They aren't telling the 23 clubs outside Super League that they have no role to play, they are basically saying, "######, is that the situation? Well, we better, erm, make a decision then ..."

I'd prefer your idea because it would indicate some form of strategy, albeit one I think that's misguided.

How we're meant to develop any coherent plan for rugby league at any level when Super League, the Championship, the RFL, BARLA, NCL, individual leagues and clubs all seem to have completely contradictory agendas and are happy to self destruct to prove a point I haven't the first idea though.


Yes Jon. The governing body is completely REactive to the situation (in an ineffective way), which makes any medium/long term planning useless. What was the point in all that investment if it just goes to waste in the next round of "improvements"?

Just to make clear, of course I'm not mounting some rfl-is-out-to-shaft-us conspiracy, but just looking at the situation, you have to ask yourslef, what the hell do they want us to do?

Previous posters have stated that this issue only really affects a small number of clubs, be it 2, 3, 4 or 6 (no-one can seem to decide). But these are precisely the clubs that have made efforts towards player development in terms of time, money, coaching and resources.

#23 gingerjon

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:05 PM

Just to make clear, of course I'm not mounting some rfl-is-out-to-shaft-us conspiracy, but just looking at the situation, you have to ask yourslef, what the hell do they want us to do?


They don't know what they want you to do and have no way of forcing you to do it if you decide not to.
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#24 marklaspalmas

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:12 PM

They don't know what they want you to do and have no way of forcing you to do it if you decide not to.


Precisely.

A governing body needs to see beyond the interests of individual clubs and see what's good for the sport long term. They need to take everyone's best interests into consideration when decsions are made.

I severely doubt I can be convinced that what's gone on with junior rugby and SL-CC link ups since the end of last season is in the long term best interests of the sport as a whole.

#25 keighley

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

Build a tennis court at Red Hall and get Lewis back there yesterday. The RFL are like a rudderless ship with no coherent course planned. It will suddenely dawn on them at the 11th hour that they have to plan the negotiations for the next contract with Sky.

#26 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

The fans need to look at themselves as well.

Oldham have run a successful reserve side for a few years. They perform well. It produced a number of players who have moved up into the first team. It was highly regarded.

Last year some fans were calling for it to be scrapped as the money saved should of been spent on promotion. We blame the RFL and clubs for short termism, without looking at the elephant in the room that is the fans.
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#27 Chappies Dummy

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:35 PM

Another way to look at is that it will discourage kids playing the game. If cc just run a first team and no academies the kids that dont get picked up by sl will just give up.

#28 thundergaz

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

The RFL have stated over hundreds of times that you need all the academy's to progress to SL. We have invested very heavily in our academy's to progress to SL and now get told the under 23s is being scraped what a joke. I'm sick of the RFL changing the goal posts to help the so called big clubs its not a business it's being dictated to by the so called big clubs. What chance do we have of getting to SL even if we do everything the RFL want us to because they keep changing the rules to help the teams that are already there? But I'm sure our club will be asking for a big compensation pay out and they should recieve one IMO.

Edited by thundergaz, 15 December 2012 - 06:44 PM.


#29 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:30 PM

So now Fev have a highly acclaimed scholarship system up to under 16's level and then a four year gap to the under 20's . So what's the point? The obvious course of action will now be to abandon the scholarship pathway as it serves no purpose any longer. Well done RFL,

Total shambles.
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#30 Marauder

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:57 PM

Is that what Fev and Fax and Sheffield did?

We're talking about an u23 league.

We're talking about any structure whatsoever below the first 17 at professional rugby league clubs.

Come on, it's not that hard.

Yes they did, Tim and myself had a few chats during Eagles U23's games last summer.
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#31 Marauder

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:00 PM

I can't understand what's all the fuss is about, check the history of the RFL/Pro clubs and the different age groups they have run and for how long.
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#32 gingerjon

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:01 PM

Precisely.

A governing body needs to see beyond the interests of individual clubs and see what's good for the sport long term. They need to take everyone's best interests into consideration when decsions are made.

I severely doubt I can be convinced that what's gone on with junior rugby and SL-CC link ups since the end of last season is in the long term best interests of the sport as a whole.


Okay, but say the RFL put out a command: you must have an Academy side or else you won't be in the Championship.

And half the clubs say they can't or won't do it.

What can the RFL realistically do?

(In soccer if that happened they could relegate those clubs safe in the knowledge that at every tier of the game there are eager clubs ready to come along and replace them. The same as far as I can see would be true for the rahs. It's clearly not the case for league ... so what can a governing body do?)
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#33 Keith T

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

Some posters shouting that the RFL should make all Championship clubs have a reserve/Under 23 team need to stop and think a little bit away from the convenient M62 connurbations.

Workington and Whitehaven already have more expense than the rest of the Championship clubs due to the amount of travelling they put in and to do the same for each of those clubs to support a reserve/ Under 23 team would add another £30k - £40k per season to their costs.

People were jumping through hoops to allow SL to do away with the Under 18's and Under 20's in order to save each club around £100k. If the RFL want ALL Championship clubs to have a reserve/Under 23 team then let then subsidise the travel costs of clubs like the two west Cumbrian clubs.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#34 Les Tonks Sidestep

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:20 PM

...

Edited by Les Tonks Sidestep, 15 December 2012 - 08:21 PM.


#35 Les Tonks Sidestep

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:20 PM

...get Lewis back there ....


Don't be silly. The fruits of his labours are now ripening. He knew what was coming and got out before the proverbial brown stuff hit the spinning thing.

Edited by Les Tonks Sidestep, 15 December 2012 - 08:22 PM.


#36 bowes

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

The NCL was winter when the U23 was bigger and players did double up.

#37 Padge

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:22 PM

In my opinion the RFL should never have wasted money on Crusaders, Bradford or any pro team. I

Which clubs should they have waste money on?

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#38 The Parksider

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:17 PM

Not a bad idea in terms of our elite league but without Fev, Fax, Leigh & Sheffield the Championships would suffer badly without the support of these clubs. It would make the pyramid even more "top heavy" which in the long term can't be a good thing.


Suffer exactly how??

Beyond the odd couple of CC clubs the rest have no real ambition for professional RL.

Just put those who want to be professionals in one league and those who want to be "a" teams to SL clubs in another.

Just get on with it and stop messing clubs about.

#39 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:46 PM

Suffer exactly how??

Beyond the odd couple of CC clubs the rest have no real ambition for professional RL.

Just put those who want to be professionals in one league and those who want to be "a" teams to SL clubs in another.

Just get on with it and stop messing clubs about.

Amen to that Parky. Those clubs which have chosen to become 'partners' have voted for an existence of mediocrity or less. There's fewer than a handful of top CC clubs that want much more and they need to be accommodated.

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 15 December 2012 - 11:47 PM.

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#40 del capo

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:58 PM

Tiers 1 ,2 and 3 sat down together for the first time below full RFL Council last week in York to discuss these very issues.

CC cannot sustain a viable U 23's competition .

SL ( against advice ) will only operate a U19 's reserve pro team and rely otherwise on the dual / loan system..

CC at extended scholarship is a non runner and the only meaningful viable competition is U 20's.,.hopefully thereby compromising the differing ideologies running within CC.

A debate still has to be had and a deal struck on the player movement between 2 and 3. The integrity of the various competition structures remain paramount

Hopefully more meetings planned for the near future.....

But will the game support the recommendations at the end of the day or yet again just shoot the messengers /?




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