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Another mess at academy level thanks to the clubs and RFL


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#41 The Parksider

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:13 AM

Amen to that Parky. Those clubs which have chosen to become 'partners' have voted for an existence of mediocrity or less. There's fewer than a handful of top CC clubs that want much more and they need to be accommodated.


Moving from semi pro to fully pro is a mountain to climb.

If there are a couple of clubs who want to climb that mountain then for gawds sake let them. We need ambitious energetic clubs with serious ambition. If the mountain is a bit to steep level it out a bit. Don't sit back and make clubs struggle.

But be respectful to CC clubs who don't want to climb a mountain they know they cannot climb.

Too many dreamers on here harbour ambitions for championship clubs when they have no right to do so. These dreamers talk about what clubs should do but would not dream of sending on a personal cheque to help it happen.

If a couple of people run a CC club and put their time and money into it to help it survive, and decide they have not got the money or resource to climb the mountain who are you or I to accuse them of voting for "mediocrity or less".

#42 jt

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:09 AM

Don't worry about it we can still sign over paid Aussies and throw loads of money at S/L clubs for them to waste youth development it not a priority by the looks of it If some CC clubs can set the scolarship programmes up with no funding why can't our S/L clubs do the same

Until all the clubs have a say the lower leagues are on a no win situation

#43 oldrover

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:09 AM

Tiers 1 ,2 and 3 sat down together for the first time below full RFL Council last week in York to discuss these very issues.

CC cannot sustain a viable U 23's competition .

SL ( against advice ) will only operate a U19 's reserve pro team and rely otherwise on the dual / loan system..

CC at extended scholarship is a non runner and the only meaningful viable competition is U 20's.,.hopefully thereby compromising the differing ideologies running within CC.

A debate still has to be had and a deal struck on the player movement between 2 and 3. The integrity of the various competition structures remain paramount :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hopefully more meetings planned for the near future.....

But will the game support the recommendations at the end of the day or yet again just shoot the messengers /?

edited.
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#44 oldrover

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

not long now until the top 4 or 5 clubs are playing union and the rest are playing for ale money.
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#45 gazza77

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:59 AM

Ignoring the rights and wrongs of the actual decision for a moment; shouldn't these plans be considered and announced well in advance of the season? That's surely the biggest cock up in the whole affair.

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#46 a.n Other

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:06 AM

Moving from semi pro to fully pro is a mountain to climb.

If there are a couple of clubs who want to climb that mountain then for gawds sake let them. We need ambitious energetic clubs with serious ambition. If the mountain is a bit to steep level it out a bit. Don't sit back and make clubs struggle.

But be respectful to CC clubs who don't want to climb a mountain they know they cannot climb.

Too many dreamers on here harbour ambitions for championship clubs when they have no right to do so. These dreamers talk about what clubs should do but would not dream of sending on a personal cheque to help it happen.

If a couple of people run a CC club and put their time and money into it to help it survive, and decide they have not got the money or resource to climb the mountain who are you or I to accuse them of voting for "mediocrity or less".


Good post.

At the moment there are 3 maybe 4 clubs with ambitions to be in SL and are stuck in limbo. This in itself causes problems for the RFL. I am sure they would prefer all clubs in the cc to have no ambitions of playing in SL or not having the means to do so. Or ideally they would want the 2nd tier to be the opposite. All teams having the ambition and the means to do so.

#47 oldrover

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:13 AM

maybe some of the clubs in the lower divisions have had the ambition knocked out of them.
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#48 Ramite

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:29 AM

Maybe some see SL as not for them or chasing the SL dream could put the club at risk of going bust.
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#49 Dave T

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:36 AM

Maybe, just maybe, the clubs literally cant afford it!
We keep hearing from experts here that clubs should cut their cloth accordingly, and we are also happy that rl is one of the cheapest sports around - well we cant have it all ways.

#50 The Parksider

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:59 AM

Maybe some see SL as not for them or chasing the SL dream could put the club at risk of going bust.


To operate in Superleague and fulfill the license clubs need to turn over millions, and to do this they need quality players and thousands of fans.

In all the years I've watched the game I have never seen any of the small clubs do anything but survive, yet we still have this idea that somehow if they have the "will" there's a way, or if the have "ambition" this will pay the bills.

I've also been told countless times small clubs can "regroup" in the championships, "build" in the champiuonships and "get ready for Superleague" I haven't seen that in 17 years. The only small clubs to get in SL did it with a rich mans wallet.

Now I am told that top championship clubs are now as good as the clubs at the bottom of SL which ignors that the latter are only down to that level because they have failed miserably.

SL needs a shake up so it can contain all the clubs who want to be there without them risking going bust, but the licensing process needs dumping and the whole system of applying for SL needs to be available for everyone in the game to scrutinise. Clubs who want SL should lay their plans bare and lay the costings bare, so the next time a CC club disingenously applies knowing they won't get in but it will keep the fans interest up, they can be found out so there's no crying "they wouldn't let us in".

Equaly clubs who don't want SL should say so, so their fans can stop pushing for something the club doesn't even want. A bit of honesty may go a long way to re-uniting the game.

#51 shrek

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:35 AM

Ignoring the rights and wrongs of the actual decision for a moment; shouldn't these plans be considered and announced well in advance of the season? That's surely the biggest cock up in the whole affair.

That hits the nail on the head for me.

Presumably clubs have coaches, support staff and players in place to fulfill these teams, all feels a little 11th hour to me, given we're now in pre-season!

#52 keighley

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:04 PM

Moving from semi pro to fully pro is a mountain to climb.

If there are a couple of clubs who want to climb that mountain then for gawds sake let them. We need ambitious energetic clubs with serious ambition. If the mountain is a bit to steep level it out a bit. Don't sit back and make clubs struggle.

But be respectful to CC clubs who don't want to climb a mountain they know they cannot climb.

Too many dreamers on here harbour ambitions for championship clubs when they have no right to do so. These dreamers talk about what clubs should do but would not dream of sending on a personal cheque to help it happen.

If a couple of people run a CC club and put their time and money into it to help it survive, and decide they have not got the money or resource to climb the mountain who are you or I to accuse them of voting for "mediocrity or less".


The fully pro mountain is so steep and slippery that only a handful of clubs can afford to stay on it without falling into the crevasse of financial meltdown. Too many dreamers harbour fully professional ambitions for clubs who have no chance of survivng at that level as the number of failures in SL in recent years has demonstrated.

If the mountain were levelled, i.e a reduction in the amounts paid out in wages, then the present SL might be possible to sustain. If not, forget it. Contraction to a rump of 8 or so clubs will ensue. When that happens, there will not be enough SL clubs for the a team/feeder clubs to baby up to. They will have to sink or swim on their own.

SL needs therefore to become a less expensive league to operate in. This will stabilize existing strugglers, give the SL wannabees a chance to compete, and leave more wet nurses available for the never wannabees to suckle up to.

The bottom line is there is not enough money to operate a fully professional decent sized top competition at current wage levels and there needs to be some acknowledgement of that by the SL/RFL and running expenses need to be reduced for SL clubs to a sustainable level, whether that be a reduced remuneration SL or even a top level semi pro SL.

#53 The Parksider

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:13 PM

The fully pro mountain is so steep and slippery that only a handful of clubs can afford to stay on it without falling into the crevasse of financial meltdown. Too many dreamers harbour fully professional ambitions for clubs who have no chance of survivng at that level as the number of failures in SL in recent years has demonstrated.

If the mountain were levelled, i.e a reduction in the amounts paid out in wages, then the present SL might be possible to sustain. If not, forget it. Contraction to a rump of 8 or so clubs will ensue. When that happens, there will not be enough SL clubs for the a team/feeder clubs to baby up to. They will have to sink or swim on their own.

SL needs therefore to become a less expensive league to operate in. This will stabilize existing strugglers, give the SL wannabees a chance to compete, and leave more wet nurses available for the never wannabees to suckle up to.

The bottom line is there is not enough money to operate a fully professional decent sized top competition at current wage levels and there needs to be some acknowledgement of that by the SL/RFL and running expenses need to be reduced for SL clubs to a sustainable level, whether that be a reduced remuneration SL or even a top level semi pro SL.


Agree, the clubs who seriously want to be in SL should meet and talk collectively, not just the current incumbents led by the big four........

#54 marklaspalmas

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

Does EVERY bleeding thread have to be 'reductio ad P&R debate' ??

This was about scrapping the u23s at short notice.

Edited by marklaspalmas, 16 December 2012 - 02:20 PM.

 

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#55 marklaspalmas

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:19 PM

double post

Edited by marklaspalmas, 16 December 2012 - 02:20 PM.

 

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#56 Marauder

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

Don't worry about it we can still sign over paid Aussies and throw loads of money at S/L clubs for them to waste youth development it not a priority by the looks of it If some CC clubs can set the scolarship programmes up with no funding why can't our S/L clubs do the same

Until all the clubs have a say the lower leagues are on a no win situation

So true, your statement has just reminded me of the last Colts Championship winning side (Cas Tigers) Stuart Raper came along got rid of most of these kids and brought in 2nd rate Aussies before shooting of the Wigan, I don't think Cas has ever recovered from the gap this action created.
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#57 Marauder

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

Agree, the clubs who seriously want to be in SL should meet and talk collectively, not just the current incumbents led by the big four........

I wouldn't say the top table are incumbentants, IMO the top table will protect what they have at all costs with little regard for what goes on further down the food chain.
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#58 The Parksider

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 08:38 AM


Does EVERY bleeding thread have to be P&R debate' ??

This was about scrapping the u23s at short notice.


Does every bleeding thread have to be put in a straightjacket :lol:

I don't think it's gone onto P & R it's gone onto serious CC clubs who want to develop players being put into Superleague.

As you say player development is very important.

You ask about the lack of ambition of CC clubs to develop talent. To me it's pointless them doing it as the SL clubs either take their best local players away before they can get in their academy, or if they slip the net like Zac, they get them in the end anyway.

Every year Superleague must pick up the best 200 young players?, the very best may make professional, the next best may find a semi pro contract, and well over half these lads don't make it at all.

So who is left for the small championship clubs to "develop"? And at what cost??

#59 TWD

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:13 AM

I assume that Featherstone and Sheffield won't be entering a team in the Championship u20s competition as they are taking the spots of Catalans and Salford in the SL u19s competition.


Interesting that you have seasoned professionals stating that they play too many games in a season so the RFL decides it will be good for a young player's development to play the same number of games!

#60 bowes

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:25 AM

Sounds like U20 will get cancelled for lack of interest when say only Leigh, Keighley and Halifax enter?

Out of interest does the above mean South Wales Scorpions are gone from the SL Academy?




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