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When are the fans going to take responsibility?


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#61 Marauder

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 07:54 PM

Well then your comment about the product not being good is pointless

Did I say it's not good ? I think I said at it's best it is the best but has become so stereotyped it's on the verge of becoming boring, the difference now between the top and bottom of any division in rugby league is who can run the same angles, execute the same move and who can field the same kicks the best.
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#62 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:56 PM

The RFL get slated for picking small venues, then we the fans don't fill it (presumable because its too small...). They get slated for picking venues that are too big. They get slated for trying to fill said venues with cheap tickets.

The fans are the ultimate embodiment of short termism.
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#63 Keith T

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

The final. Why?


Just wondered what you classed as a big RL event that you stated the distinction was that you go to!! You answered with just the final but were the other games not big RL events where the crowds were very low?

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#64 Johnoco

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

Just wondered what you classed as a big RL event that you stated the distinction was that you go to!! You answered with just the final but were the other games not big RL events where the crowds were very low?

I'm not saying there have never been any decent crowds for RL games, I aren't coming from that angle. I'm saying that historically, (and not just in the modern era) RL fans have refused to attend certain games or tournaments.

This is due to a strange mentality that I think only exists in RL, ie actively finding reasons not to attend events. Not only that, then complaining about the promotion of the thing or some other reason.

#65 Dave T

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:28 AM

England RL v NZ is one of the finest sporting battles around, yet the majority of RL fans sit around moaning instead of supporting our sport.

#66 Bulletproof

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:37 AM

Decent customers? I'd look elsewhere if it was my business.

So....all these football fans are living in a different country or are all millionaires are they? Strange that Bradford City had a full stadium for their cup game the other night in my city, and there aren't too many well off people here these days I can assure you of that.

Fact is, apathy rules amongst most RL fans. They would be world champs at excuses though.


Football comparisons now? Football?

You know what? You're right. Rugby League isn't as popular as football. You're dead right on that one. :rolleyes:

We've been turning our sport into a business for years and yet get sniffy when the customers don't like what's on offer. Well that's business. You can't count on their loyalty and they are always right. Give them something they want and can't afford to miss or aknowledge that the sport isn't a business and stop trading the good will of fans from going back generations for potential elsewhere.

#67 RP London

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:06 AM

This goes back to another statement I've made, we need more TV coverage, look how union has boomed, everywhere you look and at just about any time during the day/week on TV you see Union, from a 7's competition played by 2nd rate union players to the Welsh speaking channel on sky.


and yet here in lies an issue in itself.. and i dont disagree with you I think it needs more coverage too.. IF the TV companies came in and said we will pay you nowt but put you on all the time then the RFL may well say yes.. then this entire forum would blow up into an argument between those like you and me (judging by your post) that would say that this was great, more exposure, sponsors etc etc and those that would say they should get more money for it and daft decision etc.

the Stobart deal to me was actually pretty good with great potential at a time when there werent great offers on the table (IIRC the only other was a betting company and looking at some threads on here they were right to think it wasnt popular) it didnt work out but it was worth a try.. if they take a betting company now, the detractors may be less.. but the RFL try something innovative and get slammed for it.

to see supporters as customers is slightly disingenious as well. They are not customers in the truest sense becuase bline loyalty and walking away on a whim is more possible. why are they not going, becuase the rugby played is not good enough, ok we'll play better rugby, but now the players arent good enough so we are losing, we'll buy better players, but they are all imports, argh! its not quite how a "customer" would react, they are however supporters... and you need to treat them as such.. but lets also remember customers, contrary to common opinion, are not always right! they are when something is faulty or doesnt work or is sub standard but on "how somethign should be run" etc they are not, becasue they dont have all the information to hand.

Should the supporters take some blame, i dont know, probably.. but i would just like to see people giving the decision makers a bit more credit, in any walk of life you have hard decisions to make and you wont get them all right, and you certainly wont please everyone and sometimes you dont actually have the choice that people assume you do (london broncos for instance, read any thread and certain people want them at certain grounds.. great, but are those grounds actually available, the random fan certainly doesnt know, the board does and is making a decision based on that).

Fans and pub converstations are always based on "ideal world" situations as you very very rarely have the full facts, which would take far too long and be pointless going into anyway (and fans would still argue that if they did x differently then that would give yet another option etc etc). Give the governing bodies and clubs a bit of credit for doing the best they can with the constraints they have rather than whining that EVERYTHING they do is wrong, even if actually its not a bad decision and sometimes worth the risk, every innovator takes risks some come of others dont otherwise what you do wouldnt be innovative it would just be "the way it was done"

#68 Johnoco

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:09 AM

Very funny, its clear RL is not as popular as football but I'm talking about fans that are there but don't attend big games. The point is that most football fans are not loaded either but still manage to make it to their big games, usually in larger numbers than usual. It's about the percentage who bother, not the actual amount.

If there were only 30K RL fans in this country, then attendances of 15-18K for games against Aus/NZ would be a decent effort. There are many more than that though so the attendances we do get are pretty dire in reality.And its not a recent phenomena either so the excuse about customers not being happy with the product is an odd one because it would indicate they have never been happy with it....check out some of the crowds at Wembley for GB games for instance.


And since when has sport not been a business anyway? RL was started over money.

Edited by Johnoco, 17 December 2012 - 11:56 AM.


#69 HappyDave

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

England RL v NZ is one of the finest sporting battles around, yet the majority of RL fans sit around moaning instead of supporting our sport.



Couldn't agree more. Good attendance last year for England vs Kiwis, however that was only because the fans believe England could win, and did in style.

Very funny, its clear RL is not as popular as football but I'm talking about fans that are there but don't attend big games. The point is that most football fans are not loaded either but still manage to make it to their big games, usually in larger numbers than usual. It's about the percentage who bother, not the actual amount.

If there were only 30K RL fans in this country, then attendances of 15-18K for games against Aus/NZ would be a decent effort. There are many more than that though so the attendances we do get are pretty dire in reality.And its not a recent phenomena either so the excuse about customers not being happy with the product is an odd one because it would indicate they have never been happy with it....check out some of the crowds at Wembley for GB games for instance.


And since when has sport not been a business anyway? RL was started over money.


Bang on!

Edited by HappyDave, 17 December 2012 - 01:46 PM.

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#70 Bulletproof

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

Very funny, its clear RL is not as popular as football but I'm talking about fans that are there but don't attend big games. The point is that most football fans are not loaded either but still manage to make it to their big games, usually in larger numbers than usual. It's about the percentage who bother, not the actual amount.

If there were only 30K RL fans in this country, then attendances of 15-18K for games against Aus/NZ would be a decent effort. There are many more than that though so the attendances we do get are pretty dire in reality.And its not a recent phenomena either so the excuse about customers not being happy with the product is an odd one because it would indicate they have never been happy with it....check out some of the crowds at Wembley for GB games for instance.


And since when has sport not been a business anyway? RL was started over money.


So if its purely a business there is absolutely no point criticising the customers. They owe you nothing. Give them something they want or need or they will desert you and that's the bold truth of it. They are in no way responsible for your business.

#71 Bulletproof

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:17 PM

Oh, and you have exactly no evidence whatsoever that your average football fan is any more loyal than a league fan. You've got none and there is none to get. There are so many factors making the circumstances different that even bringing football in is, to be frank, stupid.

#72 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

The game as a whole, not just the RFL has to market itself not just to fans of the game, but general sports fans. The RFL have tried to improve things but often they focus just on the current fans- not the general sports fan. Why do 60,000 or more turn up each year at Wembley of Old Trafford but just 25-30,000 to an England game? Often because a Cup or Grand Final is an event not just a final. Many people who are not fans turn up at Wembley or Old Trafford. The RFL has to somehow make Internationals an event. Making it dirt cheap etc is not the answer as you cheapen the product. Marketing internationals in to a must see event- not for RL fans but the general fan. I remember the RFRL did great work in the early 90s with Posters in the London Subway with Martin Offiah on posters etc. Taking the Australia game to Wembley and making it an event. I know people who went to Wembley in the 90s who had no idea what Rugby League was. But they got attracted to it by the game being at Wembley and the posters etc and they felt it must be something big. With respect playing 3 games against Australia in Northern England is not making it an event. Playing at QPR or another no name Stadium doesnt make it an event. The RFL have been making profits now so maybe it needs to speculate to accumalate. Next years WC should be heavily promoted not in RL Mags or in just RL areas but maybe putting adverts in Mens Health Mag or Some other popular mens or even Womens mags. Adverts or working with an Airline like Emirates, Qantas or British Airways. It will cost but we need to make it an event. Take the game to a new market. Work with the amateur clubs like Union does. The RFL does do it but maybe it needs to push even harder. If RL fans in the north are not too interested in Internationals then take it to a different market. Most RL fans know there is a game anyway and often cant be bothered ot have no interest in going so no point focusiing everything to try and get them to come- they wont unless maybe England stand a very good chance of winning the WC or something.

Edited by Lounge Room Lizard, 17 December 2012 - 05:47 PM.


#73 Johnoco

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

Oh, and you have exactly no evidence whatsoever that your average football fan is any more loyal than a league fan. You've got none and there is none to get. There are so many factors making the circumstances different that even bringing football in is, to be frank, stupid.

No, apart from the umpteen important RL games played in front of half full (or worse) stadia, there's no evidence whatsoever.

#74 keighley

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:13 PM

England RL v NZ is one of the finest sporting battles around, yet the majority of RL fans sit around moaning instead of supporting our sport.


There were 25,000 in KC stadium at the last one I went to. A great atmosphere and a great win.

#75 Dave T

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:55 PM

There were 25,000 in KC stadium at the last one I went to. A great atmosphere and a great win.

yep - a decent enough starting point, id love to see us filling the CoM Stadium for games against the Kiwis.

#76 Bulletproof

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 08:53 PM

No, apart from the umpteen important RL games played in front of half full (or worse) stadia, there's no evidence whatsoever.


And like I've said, football is more popular than rugby league. That is not evidence.

#77 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

The marketing and organisation for international RL is terrible, that's why crowds are low.

The RFL began to build momentum for international RL in 2004 with the push to use the COMS and ER (after a few years of 25k stadia). They then replaced the COMS with Loftus Road, and retreated to using 25k grounds again, and announcing fixtures towards the end of the season.

They aren't creating an event. Some times they do. Most times it's just another fixture. The push for the WC is brilliant to see, but this needs to be EVERY YEAR. The international tournament organisation this year could have been done by a child.

It is up to the RFL to create events and stick to them. The RL public may be a tough nut to crack, but that means you need to try harder, not softer.
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#78 Johnoco

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

And like I've said, football is more popular than rugby league. That is not evidence.

Approx 70k people attended the Grand Final in October. Approx 20k attended 3 England games in the following weeks.

RL fan apathy is the reason.

#79 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:11 PM

RL fan apathy is the reason.


No its just part of the reason.

We always see the RFL, super league and clubs get the blame, when are the fans going to take a share of blame?

What a stupid question. Have any of us a contract or taken an oath to support the game? Just because we/I am a fan doesnt mean I have to feel I have to attend any game or certain games. The responsibility for making anybody want to attend a game(s) is down to the RFL and/or clubs. If I dont want to attend a Final or International why should I be made to feel bad?

The problems in the game are not down to me making short term decisions which damage the game in other areas. The problem of clubs having money problems is down to poor management. The problems of many infighting factions in the game are not down to the fans. The problems between SL and Championship and the amateur game are not down to the fans or the responsibility of any fans to solve. The responsibility to attend any matches is not down to the fans- thats up to Clubs and the RFL to make me feel I want to attend because I want to not out of duty. Nobody has taken an oath that they will attend Internationals or whatever. I dont understand how a fan should feel responsible for anything in our game unless he commits to something and promises to do things.

#80 Johnoco

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

Nobody has to sign oaths or declare they will never miss a game but it would be nice if more RL fans attended the big games, that's all.




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