198 replies to this topic

[Dave T]

OK. I'll deal with 1986, because I can't be bothered to do it all.

There were just over 100,000 at the three tests. Very impressive, indeed.

However, the Old Trafford test had just over 50,000 people in attendance. The capacity of Old Trafford at the time was over 56,000.

The Elland Road test had a gate of just over 30,000. Dreadful ground though it was, it still held over 40,000 at that time.

The Central Park test had just over 20,000. The capacity at the time was about 35,000 (there were over that for the WCC game the following year).

So I make it that there were, approximately, 30,000 empty spaces at the three grounds combined in 1986.

So the fact that bigger grounds would have made an average crowd of 50,000 is a FACT, is it?

Good post - I thought similar, however I couldn't recall what the size of the grounds were at that stage.

On the point about Internationals being an event, I genuinely believe we could arrange an Ashes series for next month and get 40k at Wembley, 40k at old Trafford and 30k+ at Leeds. I don't think we have seen a massive decline (some impact due to the horrendous performances in the late 90's as I posted earlier), more that the events just haven't been created.

One of the major things I loved about Test RL all those years ago was the chance to go to different grounds. Playing the highest Test matches (against Australia) at regular SL grounds (very good ones mind) just doesn't massively excite me.

It's no coincidence that even disappointing attendances at Wembley have been a lot higher than most heartland Test matches.

[Dave T]

Aye I know Dave. I am particularly disenchanted with the direction the game has been taken.Without wanting to open up the debate that has been done to death, I felt my club was 'frozen out' of SL and the withdrawal of P&R underpins my position to withdraw from every facet of the game barring Fev and some other championship clubs.

Would bringing back P&R make you interested again?

Are you not interested in the forthcoming World Cup?

[Bedford Roughyed]

I have to say I also can't get why people have walked away from the international scene. I have no doubt the feelings are genuine and heartfelt but I just don't get it. Maybe it's a empathetic thing, I dunno.

[Keith T]

The one point that hasn't been mentioned in all these posts that I think may be part of the problem is the ages of fans. Reading some posts it seems to me that the older posters seem to have stopped going to as many big events as they used to. I know that is true in my case and many of my friends of a similar age (around pension or above) where we used to go to Challenge Cup Finals, internationals, etc, but not any more. My last international was the World Cup in Australia in 2008 but it was not uncommon for 6 - 10 clubs or pubs around Workington to run a weekend trip to Wembley each with 30 odd people at least on board.

The younger fans of today have so many other attractions especially during the summer months such as Creamfields, Glastonbury, and other festivals of a similar ilk where they spend their money and can't afford to go to as many big events as we used to. More younger RL fans are also soccer fans which was not the case when I was a lad, you were either a soccer fan or a RL fan in most cases. I know many younger fans who tell me they wouldn't be going to this event or that event because they will be away at another event or a stag do in some foreign clime or similar.

[Robin Evans]

Would bringing back P&R make you interested again?

Are you not interested in the forthcoming World Cup?

I'm not really interested in the world cup Dave, for reasons I've stated.If there was a return to P&R and the game was more inclusive than exclusive (I'm desperately trying to avoid another extention to that debate here), then yes I would feel a greater warmth towrds the game.I still wouldn't have sky but as stated that is as much to do with reasons away from rugby as it has to do with their influence on the game.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I have to say I also can't get why people have walked away from the international scene. I have no doubt the feelings are genuine and heartfelt but I just don't get it. Maybe it's a empathetic thing, I dunno.

People have walked away because they don't like the RFL's decisions regarding certain areas if the game, andso no longer follow the RFL's team. There isn't that allegiance to them like their club (especially now they've changed from GB), so it doesn't bother them that they've dropped their support there.

You can't please everyone unfortunately. Stick to a decision and build from that.

[CANETMAN]

With regards to 1990 OT was sold out and Leeds United,where easily as it was 1-1 the RFL could have sold it out 2 times over.

CM

[MrPosh]

With regards to 1990 OT was sold out and Leeds United,where easily as it was 1-1 the RFL could have sold it out 2 times over.

CM

And with regards to 1986 where your FACTS were anything but?

[Johnoco]

sorry Robin, i can't let you take all the blame. i also watched gb at every opportunity, watched all the roses games, i was in wembley for gb v oz in 1973c (i think) when there was a crowd of about 10 thousand. but now i feel no affinity with the national side, and just like you concentrate solely on my club.

Not being funny here mate but don't you think 10k at Wembley is a total disaster and were it to happen today, certain people would bang on about 'bring back GB' or something. Can you imagine what would be said today if England got 10k at Wembley?? Remember, this was the era of Eddie Waring on the BBC and RL's profile was allegedly huge. Except it doesn't look like it was really.

You have your reasons and its your choice but they are just that - your reasons, not a sign of a worse game.

[Robin Evans]

Not being funny here mate but don't you think 10k at Wembley is a total disaster and were it to happen today, certain people would bang on about 'bring back GB' or something. Can you imagine what would be said today if England got 10k at Wembley?? Remember, this was the era of Eddie Waring on the BBC and RL's profile was allegedly huge. Except it doesn't look like it was really.

You have your reasons and its your choice but they are just that - your reasons, not a sign of a worse game.

I'm quite sure Oldrover is able to answer for himself John, BUT... I can't see where he infers the game was any worse or better.As a sport, a spectacle on the pitch, we all have our preferences. THAT, at least, is purely subjective. e.g. I had a preference for competitive scrums - most prefer it as it is now!Taking a global view of the game on the pitch, I tstill think it's the best spectator sport there is and on balance, it's probably better now than it's ever been.But those aren't the reasons for my abstainace, or I believe, oldrover's!

[Johnoco]

I'm quite sure Oldrover is able to answer for himself John, BUT... I can't see where he infers the game was any worse or better.As a sport, a spectacle on the pitch, we all have our preferences. THAT, at least, is purely subjective. e.g. I had a preference for competitive scrums - most prefer it as it is now!Taking a global view of the game on the pitch, I tstill think it's the best spectator sport there is and on balance, it's probably better now than it's ever been.But those aren't the reasons for my abstainace, or I believe, oldrover's!

Yes, fair comment, I don't suppose he actually did. I'm just used to hearing how everything was better in the past.

Edited by Johnoco, 19 December 2012 - 03:28 PM.

[davewd]

There are that many OZ/NZ players here now the novalty for want of a better word as gone for some fans .

[Keith T]

Yes, fair comment, I don't suppose he actually did. I'm just used to hearing how everything was better in the past.

I don't believe that any one era is totally better than another. Yes, there are things that are better now than years ago but there are also things from bygone eras that for many were better then today. One instance being when I was a lad (I'm in my 70's now) growing up in an out of the way place like Workington, I got to see the top players in the world playing on my local teams pitch. We had visits from Australian and New Zealand touring teams , indeed I have still got autograph books with names such as Clive Churchill, Vic Bulgin, etc, in. For kids to see the world's top players now from my area they have a full days outing and quite a lot more cost. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and at that time it was fantastic.

[sweaty craiq]

The excitement of pre season, seeing your squad take shape, the dream of winning promotion or turning over the big boys, the fear of losing your place in the division, the dream of a CC run, the Aussie Test Series, the pubs/clubs Wembley weekend are what the RFL need to rekindle - and its easy to do.

[oldrover]

Not being funny here mate but don't you think 10k at Wembley is a total disaster and were it to happen today, certain people would bang on about 'bring back GB' or something. Can you imagine what would be said today if England got 10k at Wembley?? Remember, this was the era of Eddie Waring on the BBC and RL's profile was allegedly huge. Except it doesn't look like it was really.

You have your reasons and its your choice but they are just that - your reasons, not a sign of a worse game.

i use that 10k to show how big a fan i was, when so few of us made the effort. so why is it that me and people like me, no longer feel any affinity for the national team and the major events

[thundergaz]

i use that 10k to show how big a fan i was, when so few of us made the effort. so why is it that me and people like me, no longer feel any affinity for the national team and the major events

I'm with you on this one oldrover I don't go to watch England/ GB anymore and I've got to the point where I don't care if we win or lose its just another Game as far as I'm concerned. I've lost all interest in the national squad.

Edited by thundergaz, 19 December 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Johnoco]

i use that 10k to show how big a fan i was, when so few of us made the effort. so why is it that me and people like me, no longer feel any affinity for the national team and the major events

Fair play to you mate and I'm sorry to hear you feel as you do. Why not go to a game at next years WC? You never know...

[keighley]

I don't believe that any one era is totally better than another. Yes, there are things that are better now than years ago but there are also things from bygone eras that for many were better then today. One instance being when I was a lad (I'm in my 70's now) growing up in an out of the way place like Workington, I got to see the top players in the world playing on my local teams pitch. We had visits from Australian and New Zealand touring teams , indeed I have still got autograph books with names such as Clive Churchill, Vic Bulgin, etc, in. For kids to see the world's top players now from my area they have a full days outing and quite a lot more cost. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and at that time it was fantastic.

There will be two World Cup games at Workington next year. I hope you go and have a great day.

[shaun mc]

There will be two World Cup games at Workington next year. I hope you go and have a great day.

Was on the WC website today and the 2 games at Workington are available for...........ahem 'concessions' for £15 Keith!! In the Grandstand as well.
I'll be taking me dad, so thats both games for 2 of us for £45 - not a bad deal at all.

There are a few references to the 'shambolic' results/performances of the 1990's as reason for the drop off in crowds. However, in the 1990's the crowds increased especially after some right tonkings in the 1980's - 1990 series 132k aggregate 1994 series 140k aggregate. then down to 91k in 2001 and 103k in 2003.

The 1986 series was a 3-0 whitewash and 100k turned up. Yet another 30% more fans turned up after thta whitewash for the 1990 series.
The gap between a great series in 1994 and then to 2001 was maybe too long for GB to be out of the limelight and off terrestrial tv? In addition to the 2000 World Cup which didn't really fire.

[Manx RL]

With regards to 1990 OT was sold out and Leeds United,where easily as it was 1-1 the RFL could have sold it out 2 times over.

CM

Good to see you back here CM.

But just what is a big ticket item?

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