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my position on the goings on at Salford.


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#1 Barnie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:06 PM

Due to the posting by Phil H in the last thread i put on i thought i would start a new thread and tell everyone exactly what my hopes and dreams are.

firstly i have never said i want Salford to fold. i would love to see them scratching about in championship one without a pot to wee in.

i have laughed at their situation, as i imagine has every Swinton fan.

if this means that im a hypocrite then so be it.
Dont worry, it will soon be Christmas!

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#2 PhillH

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

On a personal note I've not laughed once at Salford's plight and sincerely find the whole episode very sad. We are genuinely facing the prospect of council tax payers (probably about a third of which live in and/or have an affiliation to M27) footing a £20m+ bill for the end result of gifting a new stadium to Sale Sharks! Nothing funny about that.

A golden gateway for a foreign team from the rival code into the local schools, media and overall sporting culture. Tragic.

Just think what could have been achieved with that money if only it had been spent more effectively, perhaps at Agecroft and updating the Willows. Not to mention what could've been done with Station Road! The position we are in today is a very damning verdict on the state of local democracy and ill founded vision of the civic leadership.

Even with a more narrowed perspective, at a time when the future of both clubs is very heavily dependent on the attitude of the local authority, trolling about Salford's problems isn't the best of ideas. Is a catastophe at Barton good news for the chances of a further new stadium at Agecroft becoming a reality? Definitely not!

There's certainly no need for some of the language you posted on the now locked "Leigh for SL" thread. This is about rugby league - the greatest game!
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#3 PaulT

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

In my view, the people I feel sorry for are the proper Salford fans. There are a very few minority of their fans who have taken to Facebook, Twitter and other social media sites who have settled to aiming their anger at us (what did we do?!)

I think the blame for Salfords position is shared between Salford City Council, Salford Reds management and the RFL. It was the RFL who basically told Salford to move to Barton or they'd throw them out of Super League which I believe was confirmed at their fans forum at Pendleton last night. Salford Council for funding a flawed project with no real outlook on the future, more of the here and now as they believe their "city" must have a Super League team. The big shame here is that (although I may get slated for saying this) The Willows was a fine rugby league venue, as was Station Road.

I echo Barnies sentiments on this thread that I would like to see Salford resign from Super League, not to laugh at our neighbours, but because it would be nice to see more derby games. If it was up to me, I'd have Salford stay in Super League and put us in there with them and I do still honestly believe that if we had an even playing field with Salford with funding, local authority support, a stadium within our own boundries etc that we would be as big if not bigger than they are (or were).

Edited by PaulT, 18 December 2012 - 08:57 PM.

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#4 Barnie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:39 PM

If I may, just let me take the scholarly angle for a second.

Firstly history is written by the winner and always has been. This is unavoidable. However, it does not give the full picture. This is due to the inability to gage the feelings of the populous and the leadership at any given time. Its the old adage that 'hindsight is a wonderful thing'.

It was former directors of our club that moved us away from Swinton. Fans were stabbed in the back and the council could have done more, but the fact it we were moved.

The Council then backed Salford, even though we decided that we wanted a return to our home town. They propped the club up and pumped millions of pounds into the club.

If Salford had gone on to get the 8000+ fans they required week in and week out, reached the play offs and gone on to be a true power in SL then the council would be very smug and would have been proved right.

This did not happen. People made wrong decisions and now they are paying for it. This of course is a very simple breakdown of what’s gone on over 20 odd years.

That is life. If 'history' was cut and dry there would only be orthodox historians and no place for revisionist and post revisionist historians. Who is to say that at the time backing Salford wasn't considered to be the best course of action.

Let’s face it, we can either cry about what has gone on or we can play the cards we have been dealt. What happens over the next few months and years will not be changed by a few people arguing on the internet. Its out of our hands. Lets just enjoy the ride.

Oh and just as a quick post script, if you don’t want me to be short and don’t like the language I use when I get fired up, then don’t try to get a rise out of me. After all the only reason you saw fit to ‘mug me off’ in public on a message board was to get a rise out of me, so I suppose it worked. Well done.

Edited by Barnie, 18 December 2012 - 09:40 PM.

Dont worry, it will soon be Christmas!

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#5 kingspeedbump

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:39 PM

I personnally feel that there is a significant after effect to the whole thing that affects the game as a whole. Should Salford become a CC1 team, any hope of some form of developing the game would become insignificant to the club, as they would have to cut some costs and surely it would be the off the field activities that suffer first.

If you look historically at the game in the area, I don't think its a coincidence that when Swinton had unfortunately left the Station Road, some of the local amateur sides suffered. Swinton have done little to contribute to the local community and should that be the same situation with Salford, any remote claim that Swinton or Salford are rugby league towns may well be lost.

Realisitcally Salford would not be able to afford the costs of remaining at Barton, as they clearly have shown they are unable to achieve the golden figure of 8000 fans through the turnstiles. Where next for them? Leigh? Oldham? Somewhere else outside of the boundry? That would mean both clubs existing within the Salford area in name only. If Agecroft was a given, which there's still a lot of ifs, buts and maybes, there could be something positive in the future. But it looks fairly grim!

#6 PhillH

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:17 PM

In my view, the people I feel sorry for are the proper Salford fans. There are a very few minority of their fans who have taken to Facebook, Twitter and other social media sites who have settled to aiming their anger at us (what did we do?!)

I think the blame for Salfords position is shared between Salford City Council, Salford Reds management and the RFL. It was the RFL who basically told Salford to move to Barton or they'd throw them out of Super League which I believe was confirmed at their fans forum at Pendleton last night. Salford Council for funding a flawed project with no real outlook on the future, more of the here and now as they believe their "city" must have a Super League team. The big shame here is that (although I may get slated for saying this) The Willows was a fine rugby league venue, as was Station Road.

I echo Barnies sentiments on this thread that I would like to see Salford resign from Super League, not to laugh at our neighbours, but because it would be nice to see more derby games. If it was up to me, I'd have Salford stay in Super League and put us in there with them and I do still honestly believe that if we had an even playing field with Salford with funding, local authority support, a stadium within our own boundries etc that we would be as big if not bigger than they are (or were).


While its easy for Salford City Council and Salford City Reds management to try and apportion blame onto the RFL, its a red herring.

While the RFL makes a lot of mistakes, it would surely be failing in its duty if it did not try to uphold some minimum standards for off-field facilities. Little doubt too that some aspects of the Willows were rightly judged to be below that standard. I well remember Graham Bradley of Bradford fame slating the fact he couldn't even stand up properly in the changing rooms because the ceilings were so low.

But crucially - it was not in the RFL's gift to dictate where Salford City Reds should move to, or even if they needed to move at all. The RFL would never have said, "Thou shalt move out to Barton". All the RFL could've have done was try and enforce minimum standards.

The move to Barton was about a lot more than an attempt to satisfy the RFL.

Dave Tarry went on the record many times, saying that the location of the Willows deterred people from attending matches there and Barton would be far easier to market - the goal being to transform Salford City Reds into a "regional brand". He even went so far as to accept some of the traditional support base would probably be marginalised and lost, but in his view that was a price a worth paying to open up the brave new future at Barton.

And it shouldn't be forgotten that the whole business case for Barton was predicated on construction of an adjoining Super Casino, which was intended to generate massive revenue. Another supposed advantage over the Willows.

Then we have the whole "place branding" political dimention from John Merry's perspective, the man who has never respected the unique heritage and identity of places like Eccles as being a seperate community to true Salford.

Not to mention the involvement of Peel Holdings.

All made for a toxic mix of vested interests that drove Barton to be the solution.

If you were to take circa £22m of council tax payers money and start from the beginning with a proper review of all the possible sites and options, with a more realistic set of assumptions about crowd levels, those RFL minimum standards could just have easily been met in several other places apart from Barton.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#7 greengrass

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:02 PM

Don't worry Barnie mate, I am with you all the way. My sides are killing me with all the laughter I have been doing at them down the road. After the 20 years of ###### I have took of them during my school years then I will give them back when I can.

Salford are crumbling ha ha

#8 Spelly

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

Well, it's certainly not keeping me awake at night!

Spelly.

"--- and then on the eighth day, God created Rugby League."

Daily, my intense dislike of the Pinks, Rugby Yawnion, Manchester United, and far-right politics, grows ever larger, and will continue to do so forever more!

Question! What's the connection between Rugby League and Rugby Yawnion? Answer! There isn't one!

My girl-friend asked "If you had to choose between me and Swinton who would it be?" I replied "You know the answer to that one without even asking!"


#9 mark richardson

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:26 AM

We are supposed to laugh at Salford. ..that's why we are rivals. .
I don't want them to fail and they won't I'm sure but having a little laugh at their plight is surely natural ?



#10 marshy1

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

Well Mark you did say you was only going to post happy comments on here from now on.

#11 mark richardson

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

Oh yes...no more arguing with Phil...its smiles all round Alan :D

#12 greengrass

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

best christmas present I could ever wish for, what them lot shitting themselves ha ha

#13 Blue Monkey

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

Reading the online M.E.N.'s rugby league (Eccles Town Reds of course) section in connection with the current serious position our dear 'friends' the Pinks find themselves in there are quite a few postings from an "Angry Lion".

Naturally assuming "Angry Lion" is one of our brethren, has anyone any inkling who this M27 stirrer is?

Or, Angry Lion, if you're reading this, keep up the pressure, whoever you are.

#14 Spelly

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 07:23 PM

The World was due to end today, but it's been postponed for 100 years until the Pinks sort out their money problems! :lol:

Spelly.

"--- and then on the eighth day, God created Rugby League."

Daily, my intense dislike of the Pinks, Rugby Yawnion, Manchester United, and far-right politics, grows ever larger, and will continue to do so forever more!

Question! What's the connection between Rugby League and Rugby Yawnion? Answer! There isn't one!

My girl-friend asked "If you had to choose between me and Swinton who would it be?" I replied "You know the answer to that one without even asking!"


#15 GLENNGARY

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:24 PM

Like most Swinton fans iv'e not much time for Salford reds since they tried to get us kicked out of the league but I think its now time to temper the mocking of there plight. Remember the saying there but for the grace of god. Like Salford we are totally dependent on one man. The man in question isn't getting any younger and if for any reason he has to pull the plug god forbid Swinton would sink like a lead weight. Being a super league club i'm convinced the rugby league council will save Salford. If were were in the same position ,being a championship club i'm also covinced the league council would'nt lift a finger to help us and we'd end uo like the Blackpools and Bramleys of the rugby world.The jist of this post is that i would hate to have the boot on the other foot and have them jeering at our demise which under present fianancial conditions is always a possibility. I know its nice to have a dig but remember the saying He who laughs last laughs longest.

#16 greengrass

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 06:48 PM

I agree with what you say Glenngary, difference between our one man and there's is, Mr John Kidd is a business man and a business man who lives in this world, Surely to god Mr Wilkinson really did not think he was going to average 8,000 a game from what he was getting at the Willows.

We are a club who generate most of our money and don't go begging to the council for a bailout. There are people who are losing there job at the council who have families to provide for, because of there ###### business plan us tax payers kop it.

I have spoke to a few Salford fans who think it is funny and wind me up saying they not bothered because there best friend is Salford Council, I hope they get everything they deserve and hope super league don't bail them out and they drop into our league.

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all Swinton Fans.

#17 eclecticsheep

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

I was just wondering but in the worst case scenario of Salford City Reds folding and becoming a "newco" with all that this would entail, and the total meltdown that is being orchestrated by owd rough diamond and co at the Sale sharks...which will lead to their relegation I fear...Is there not a flicker of interest at the possibility of a groundshare with FC United at Barton for the Lions, Its closer than Leigh and could be far cheaper than building a ground even behind the prison, and with both current tenants deep in the mire the rates could be favourably negotiable perhaps? ( Its sad for me to see Salford and Sale in decline especially now The Willows has been bulldozed, I genuinely feel for the fans by the way. )

#18 PaulT

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:43 PM

FC United are building a stadium in Moston and the Salford City Stadium is not in Swinton, so that wouldn't be viable long term. We had the chance to groundshare with Salford at their ground but turned it down in favour of the LSV as it is cheaper to play at the LSV all season than just one game at Salfords ground.

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#19 eclecticsheep

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:17 PM

Barton is then a potential "Dead Duck" do you think?

#20 PaulT

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:58 PM

Pretty much. It really seems like the perfect example on how to do everything wrong.

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