625 replies to this topic

[Griff]

Must admit in the case of Featherstone that "be careful what you wish for" could be an apt adage.

Never a truer word.

I keep saying that, if we are to reintroduce p+r, we must get the finances right first. Out of the four "contenders", Fev are the only club making consistent losses at Championship level.

[Griff]

well aye it could.
Then I take a look at the various fora. Try as I might I can't find a single post from a fan of a sl club "wishing" for a go in the championship!!

Might be a few directors, though.

[RS]

Might be a few directors, though.

Fair point

Sadly for the sport the number of those Directors willing (or able) to put in significant sums are plummeting.

[Ian (Pencil) Elliott]

who are featherstone playing in their first home game of the new super league season.............................

Bragging about your club who are in an higher league because they got voted in is just very sad.

I would rather discuss sport, so again I will remind you about the two 50 point drubbings. The only thing saving you from more punishment from our small little club is that you were voted in to the SL, unless we get you in the cup.

Top of the Championship versus bottom of SL would be a nice cup game for our little club.

[Ian (Pencil) Elliott]

Leigh were promoted with 2166 crowds. Featherstone will be denied promotion if they are on the same crowds by 2015.

Leigh's crowds were 4750 in Superleague.

Only 5200 turned up to see Leeds put 60 past Leigh, 7458 for Wigan, 5534 for the Saints game in which Saints put 78 points past them. 3200 turned up for the Broncos game.

Leigh had no money for team strengthening to talk of (they loaned Richard Moore, and had Darren Fleary, Ollie Wilkes and Paul Rowley up front as well) and ended the season with a couple of wins and completely skint having shipped in 1210 points against

Reportedly they sold 5000 season tickets and the average gate didn't pass that so it looks like a number of fans chucked the season ticket away during the season. Fans don't want to see loss after loss.

Cue a myriad of excuses as to why this would not happen to Featherstone if say they replaced Salford next year in Superleague.

This is P & R between two disparate leagues.

Wonderful isn't it?

Yes it was such a shocking season for Leigh. The season that Widnes had last year was far better wasn't it after being voted up?

Wonderful isn't it?

[Padge]

Yes it was such a shocking season for Leigh. The season that Widnes had last year was far better wasn't it after being voted up?

Wonderful isn't it?

It didn't cause Widnes any money worries why they bedded in and tested out who was up to the job at SL level, we will probably see a very different Widnes this season.

[Robin Evans]

Didn't the lose something approaching £1m or did I get that wrong? My memory could be just recalling sheeeite!

[The Parksider]

Yes it was such a shocking season for Leigh. The season that Widnes had last year was far better wasn't it after being voted up?

It was far better, they got six wins, and remain in Superleague and are building the team up that bit more. I bet they'll finish above Salford 2013 so there's progress. It's likely they will finish above Castleford who are cash strapped, and HKR even.

So that could be 11th for them and who knows - play offs 2014.

I haven't a clue what your point is, you don't say, but my point is Rovers need to go up via "voted up" and not via P & R.

Edited by The Parksider, 29 December 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[keighley]

What do you mean by "in cahoots", ESL no longer has its own management structure but allows the RFL (who charge for it) to run things for them, the ESL clubs having the last word on everything that affects them solely. They have to be "in cahoots".

I bloody despair at times.

Seems like you answered your own question there, but, lets not get sidetracked here. I will concede that it's the SL and not the RFL. Ok, continue from that concession point as and when necessary.

[The Parksider]

Didn't they lose something approaching £1m

They didn't get the break even crowds Robin, how much they physically lost I don't know, Mr. O'Connor apparently made some big offers for players he didn't get so he was prepared to go into a deficit to give Widnes a foothold in Superleague. I suspect there was a trading loss, I suspect he'll stand it easily enough.

They've two more years to go and they will be hoping they can get towards that 8,000 break even they last got in 1989, if they can start winning who knows 1,000 more next year, 1,000 more the year after?.

The question as regards Widnes.v.Featherstone is will Mr. Nahaboo and Mr. Campbell secure Rovers financially such that they can build in SL, that's essential. Mr. Nahaboo apparently says he will so that's good.

[Padge]

Seems like you answered your own question there, but, lets not get sidetracked here. I will concede that it's the SL and not the RFL. Ok, continue from that concession point as and when necessary.

So back to the original question how do you know that the SL clubs are not playing a waiting game, and just like they did with Bradford, show their hand when they want it to have an impact.

You seem to be stating quite categorically that ESL will do nothing, how do you know?

[keighley]

1. Mr. Khan is running Bradford but seemingly not bankrolling them. The RFL were indirectly involved in saving the club by buying Odsal.

2. The RFL can't buy Barton, and besides SLE showed their cards offering to buy Bradford. No such offer for Salford. The big signal there has to be SLE maybe have no plans for salford being in SLE 2015 unless someone puts millions in.

There's time yet for the SLE to put a bid in, but if they want a 12 club SL with Toulouse in in why would they try to save Salford unless some multi-millionaire moved in??

Go back to when Salford got their license for SL. If Wilko and Clague had said then "BTW we won't be putting a penny in" would they have got that license?? If it only needs £600K to see Salford start the season why don't Wilko and Clague put that in themselves?? Why should the RFL or SLE do it???

3. Featherstone put the "fear of failure" up any team in the league??

I'm sure they don't especially Superleague. Their current side would be slaughtered by most SL teams, and once the players had the confidence knocked out of them that'd be that.

Why do you have this persistent idea that Featherstone are somehow a great Rugby League side full of super heroes. In recent years Sheffield, Halifax and Leigh have all been good semi pro sides too, Sheffield are probably the best of the four at the moment.

1. Which begs the question, who is bankrolling them ?

I don't think the RFL bought Odsal. They bought the lease to Odsal. Apparently one of the big expenses for Salford is the lease for Barton. The RFL could pay theeis lease fees or buy the lease from Peel Holdings or whomever like they did for Bradford at Odsal.

2. My original point exactly. If they can make an offer to but Bradford, the least they can do is the same if Salford ultimately go into administration and, to be fair, they may have plans to do just that. Time and future developments will tell.

This highlights the whole double headed monster of who controls the SL, the SL or the RFL. I don't know how it all happened that SL devolved from central control by the league and are now in control of the money from Sky and can determine the makeup and number of member clubs but it is a mess. They may have some secret, self serving agenda to jettison Salford and the Manchester market and abandon the whole area to soccer so that they can split the Sky pie inot bigger slices but, in my opinion, it would be a mistake. Maybe Wilkinson has had some inside information on this and that is why he is wirthdrawing his support for the Reds.

3. Featherstone are not a great side but neither are the bottom four in SL. I think Featherfstone and the other teams from CC that you list could regularly beat any of those bottom four.The severe beating Featherstone administered to Castleford and the narrow escapes in the last two seasons of London and Huddersfield at Batley, not even one of your preferred top CC teams, are testament to that.

Featherstone had Wigan distinctly rattled in that Challenge Cup tie and that was with their CC team, not one improved for competiton in SL. That was my point there.

A Featherstone or any other CC team allowed into SL if promotion was re instated do not need to win the league or even make the playoffs, they merely need to finish out of the bottom spot and so they only need to finish above any of the London, Widnes, Salford and Castleford quartet to survive. I think that is possible.

[The Parksider]

Featherstone are not a great side but neither are the bottom four in SL. I think Featherstone and the other teams from CC that you list could regularly beat any of those bottom four.

Then that's that and there's nothing more to be said. If you think semi pro players the best of whom didn't make it in Superleague are good enough to beat established professional Super League sides then fine.

Clearly the massive funding gap between SL and CC is easily bridged.

Bring back P & R all is well

[thundergaz]

Never a truer word.

I keep saying that, if we are to reintroduce p+r, we must get the finances right first. Out of the four "contenders", Fev are the only club making consistent losses at Championship level.

We can cover the losses though unlike the other 3. But I've always said if you want to get out of this league you will have to make substantial losses. Also we are the only club using the full salary cap and in a league like this you have to accept if you use the full salary cap you will make losses. Ambition costs money and plenty of it. I personally think out of the 4 clubs that want SL we are the only club that can actually fund a SL place.

[The Parksider]

If Superleague Europe can make an offer to buy Bradford, the least they can do is the same if Salford ultimately go into administration

Why would they want to buy Salford?

To do what with exactly??

Edited by The Parksider, 29 December 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[keighley]

Leigh were promoted with 2166 crowds. Featherstone will be denied promotion if they are on the same crowds by 2015.

Leigh's crowds were 4750 in Superleague.

Only 5200 turned up to see Leeds put 60 past Leigh, 7458 for Wigan, 5534 for the Saints game in which Saints put 78 points past them. 3200 turned up for the Broncos game.

Leigh had no money for team strengthening to talk of (they loaned Richard Moore, and had Darren Fleary, Ollie Wilkes and Paul Rowley up front as well) and ended the season with a couple of wins and completely skint having shipped in 1210 points against

Reportedly they sold 5000 season tickets and the average gate didn't pass that so it looks like a number of fans chucked the season ticket away during the season. Fans don't want to see loss after loss.

Cue a myriad of excuses as to why this would not happen to Featherstone if say they replaced Salford next year in Superleague.

This is P & R between two disparate leagues.

Wonderful isn't it?

So, my original pint was correct and Leigh, in spite of the disastrous season they endured in SL increased their attendances. Many of those crowds were higher than the fabulous broncos achieved this last season, when they too were dire, although not as dire as Leigh were.

I think Featherstone have above a 2,000 average as of now and are building that towards the desired 2,500. If they don't quite get there they can use the SL consultants at KPMG to massage the figures for them .

I won't come up with a myriad of excuses but I will offer you one good reason why they would not do as badly as Leigh did and that is that they appear to have financial backing and sponsorship in place to enable them to make a better job of it than Leigh did.

[keighley]

Never a truer word.

I keep saying that, if we are to reintroduce p+r, we must get the finances right first. Out of the four "contenders", Fev are the only club making consistent losses at Championship level.

But since those losses were announced they seem to have picked up some people with financial muscle to assist as appears to be the model for most of SL.

[keighley]

It was far better, they got six wins, and remain in Superleague and are building the team up that bit more. I bet they'll finish above Salford 2013 so there's progress. It's likely they will finish above Castleford who are cash strapped, and HKR even.

So that could be 11th for them and who knows - play offs 2014.

I haven't a clue what your point is, you don't say, but my point is Rovers need to go up via "voted up" and not via P & R.

Chance will be a fine thing by either method. Don't forget the famous "we can do what we want regardless of the rules" clause in the SL procedures.

[keighley]

So back to the original question how do you know that the SL clubs are not playing a waiting game, and just like they did with Bradford, show their hand when they want it to have an impact.

You seem to be stating quite categorically that ESL will do nothing, how do you know?

I didn't say they would do nothing. In fact I said that they should definitely do something since they were prepared as SL to purchase the Bulls and since, as the RFL they purchased the Odsal lease and seeing as how they coughed up 700,000 pounds to the Crusaders, then one or both organisations should also be prepared to assist Salford in their hour of need.

I don't know that they are not playing a waiting game. If push comes to shove and Salford go into administration, then we will know whether or not they are playing the said waiting game. I hope, for the good of the game, that they are.

[The Parksider]

We can cover the losses though unlike the other 3. But I've always said if you want to get out of this league you will have to make substantial losses. Also we are the only club using the full salary cap and in a league like this you have to accept if you use the full salary cap you will make losses. Ambition costs money and plenty of it. I personally think out of the 4 clubs that want SL we are the only club that can actually fund a SL place.

Then in you go for me on the basis you'll have the money not on the basis you can beat at least four of the SL clubs regularly with the team you have.

You'll need the money to build a team.