625 replies to this topic

[The Parksider]

The RFL purchased the Odsal lease and seeing as how they coughed up 700,000 pounds to the Crusaders, then one or both organisations should also be prepared to assist Salford in their hour of need, for the good of the game.

Clearly Bradford and RL In Wales were seen as much bigger assets than Salford and I can understand why.

The people of Salford/Manchester voted with their feet, so Lancahsire and north Cheshire will just have to make do with Wigan, Wire, Saints and Widnes.

Quite an impressive quartet, they've been fantastic clubs in my lifetime.

[keighley]

They didn't get the break even crowds Robin, how much they physically lost I don't know, Mr. O'Connor apparently made some big offers for players he didn't get so he was prepared to go into a deficit to give Widnes a foothold in Superleague. I suspect there was a trading loss, I suspect he'll stand it easily enough.

They've two more years to go and they will be hoping they can get towards that 8,000 break even they last got in 1989, if they can start winning who knows 1,000 more next year, 1,000 more the year after?.

The question as regards Widnes.v.Featherstone is will Mr. Nahaboo and Mr. Campbell secure Rovers financially such that they can build in SL, that's essential. Mr. Nahaboo apparently says he will so that's good.

I have no ill will towards Widnes. They have had several raw deals from SL and I hope they get to their break even 8,000 attendance target, but, from memory, I think they have only once broken the 8,000 attendance barrier and that was when they were dominating the competition and winning trophies by the bucketful. I think that will be a difficult threshold to cross. It looks like time to re evaluate the salary cap and expense structures as in our previous musings.

[keighley]

Why would they want to buy Salford?

To do what with exactly??

Why would they want to buy Bradford ?

[The Parksider]

So, my original point was correct and Leigh, in spite of the disastrous season they endured in SL increased their attendances.

I won't come up with a myriad of excuses but I will offer you one good reason why Fev would not do as badly as Leigh did and that is that they appear to have financial backing and sponsorship in place to enable them to make a better job of it than Leigh did.

Leigh's attendances didn't provide the funds for the club to compete nor did they have time to build a team. most promoted clubs get bigger attendances HKR did, Cas did, Widnes did but they are all making losses so what IS your point?

You have already made the excuse that Fev's current team can do the double over four Superleague clubs, backed by nothing but a cup win over Cas.

[keighley]

Then that's that and there's nothing more to be said. If you think semi pro players the best of whom didn't make it in Superleague are good enough to beat established professional Super League sides then fine.

Clearly the massive funding gap between SL and CC is easily bridged.

Bring back P & R all is well

What was the score when Featherstone last played Castleford ?

[The Parksider]

It looks like time to re evaluate the salary cap and expense structures as in our previous musings.

Why? If the top four CC teams can beat the bottom four SL clubs as you say, then these clubs can go up and use the £1,200,000 for building up the club in other directions.

They won't need it for a team will they they've all got a Superleague team already.

Other people agree with you. They tell me if your getting behind on finances in SL all you have to do is cut the wages down.

Easy.

This clearly is the way back for Salford. Assemble a team at a salary cap of £300K like Fev, Leigh, Sheffield and Halifax, win a mid table position in SL like they can according to you, and bob's yer uncle.

Sorted.

[The Parksider]

What was the score when Featherstone last played Castleford ?

Look it up it's time you did some research yourself.

[matt newsholme]

1. Mr. Khan is running Bradford but seemingly not bankrolling them. The RFL were indirectly involved in saving the club by buying Odsal.

Mr khan is bankrolling Bradford. But he isn't prepared to plough millions in like some over club owners. What's he's always said is the club has to be sustainable and the costs spread over many income sources which IMO is better than having all your eggs in one basket. He's already brought in a 1.5million record sponsorship deal and has parts of stadium in use 7days a week, which while it may not bring in much revenue now will grow and every little helps.

[keighley]

Clearly Bradford and RL In Wales were seen as much bigger assets than Salford and I can understand why.

The people of Salford/Manchester voted with their feet, so Lancahsire and north Cheshire will just have to make do with Wigan, Wire, Saints and Widnes.

Quite an impressive quartet, they've been fantastic clubs in my lifetime.

The Salford attendances last season were up. I think the people of Wales and Bradford were the ones voting with their feet. How much did the Bradford attendance average drop, from 15,000 to 8,000 wasn't it? Now that's what I call voting with your feet.

[The Parksider]

The Salford attendances last season were up. I think the people of Wales and Bradford were the ones voting with their feet. How much did the Bradford attendance average drop, from 15,000 to 8,000 wasn't it? Now that's what I call voting with your feet.

Here’s my final stance. No Championship £300K team can hope to survive in Superleague. Lancashire and north Cheshire are well served by four fantastic RL clubs, the RFL/SLE owe Salford nothing, SL needs Bradford.

[The Parksider]

What was the score when Featherstone last played Castleford ?

Oh yeh and here's my final final stance.

What was the score when Barrow last played Cas AT Cas.

Clearly Fev's famous cup win that places them around the tenth best team in the Rugby League in your eyes was not a freak result.

Everyone's doing it

[keighley]

Leigh's attendances didn't provide the funds for the club to compete nor did they have time to build a team. most promoted clubs get bigger attendances HKR did, Cas did, Widnes did but they are all making losses so what IS your point?

You have already made the excuse that Fev's current team can do the double over four Superleague clubs, backed by nothing but a cup win over Cas.

I believe you slated Leigh for not increasing their attendances following their promotion because they had a bad season. I was pointing out that, heavens above, you were wrong. That was my point.

Secondly, don't twist my words. I never said Fev could do the double over all those teams. I said that they could finish above just one of those teams in SL and so avoid relegation were p and r in place, arguing against your declaration that any promoted CC team would automatically end up bottom.

Furthermore, that Featherstone win was with their CC lineup not their improved SL lineup that would be competing against the bottom 4 to avoid relegation. Seeing as that win by Fev is not enough, let me remind you of Barrow and Halifax v Cas at Cas in the Challenge Cup. oops, more flloks by CC teams.

In addition to that, Huddersfield, Hull KR, Castleford and Wakefield have all been promoted to SL. Hows that working out. No long term yo yo syndrome there.

Never mind though, you just keep peddling your notions of SL superiority and total domination even if the facts show a different view.

[Dave T]

Here’s my final stance. No Championship £300K team can hope to survive in Superleague. Lancashire and north Cheshire are well served by four fantastic RL clubs, the RFL/SLE owe Salford nothing, SL needs Bradford.

Do you think Widnes will not survive then? Widnes were a Championship £300k team 18 months ago.

[The Parksider]

Do you think Widnes will not survive then? Widnes were a Championship £300k team 18 months ago.

No Dave Mr. K's point was that the current CC teams of Leigh, Halifax, Fev and Shefield can beat the bottom clubs in Superleague as they stand. therefore P & R can easily work.

i.e. semi pro teams on 300K are as good as professional teams on wages of £1,100,000 to £1,600,000.

i.e. there's no difference in standard.

Widnes's £300K championship team has had to be bolstered by signings which have cost money, but they have managed six wins and are still building that team up.

My point is Featherstone need three years under a license to survive and grow, not one years promotion by P & R. Widnes are a good indication of that.

[keighley]

Why? If the top four CC teams can beat the bottom four SL clubs as you say, then these clubs can go up and use the £1,200,000 for building up the club in other directions.

They won't need it for a team will they they've all got a Superleague team already.

Other people agree with you. They tell me if your getting behind on finances in SL all you have to do is cut the wages down.

Easy.

This clearly is the way back for Salford. Assemble a team at a salary cap of £300K like Fev, Leigh, Sheffield and Halifax, win a mid table position in SL like they can according to you, and bob's yer uncle.

Sorted.

My point was in regards to Widnes and the need for them to attain an 8,000 average to break even which they have only ever done once. This is an anointed, appointed, KMPG approved, bona fide, super dooper league club, so, if Widnes and Salford and Bradford and Crusaders and maybe Castleford, aslo KPMG approved licence holders, cannot make it in SL on the present salary cap, without even discussing any potential CC clubs chances in SL, then it's time to reduce expenses to a level where the said clubs can compete and the biggest expense of any business is wages and that should be where any attempt mto right the foundering SL ship should start.

[The Parksider]

I believe you slated Leigh for not increasing their attendances following their promotion your declaration that any promoted CC eam would automatically end up bottom.

I've always known Leigh increased their attendances when they went up, I've always said that whilst clubs do that the increase is often not enough for those clubs to pay their way in SL. HKR can't pay their way can they nor Cas nor could wakefield in the end.

I've never said any CC club going up would "automatically" end up bottom.

What I said was that CC clubs who can't find the money to start building a professional side are likely to be regularly hammered which will not help crowds, and which will most likely see them come bottom. Even Widnes who DO have money came bottom.

The simple point is Fev must go up with a licence if they want to be an SL club and not via P & R.

Edited by The Parksider, 29 December 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[keighley]

Look it up it's time you did some research yourself.

I don't need to know the exact score to make my point. What I do know for certain is that there were more points for the CC club than for the SL club.

[keighley]

Mr khan is bankrolling Bradford. But he isn't prepared to plough millions in like some over club owners. What's he's always said is the club has to be sustainable and the costs spread over many income sources which IMO is better than having all your eggs in one basket. He's already brought in a 1.5million record sponsorship deal and has parts of stadium in use 7days a week, which while it may not bring in much revenue now will grow and every little helps.

One of you, either Parksider or Matt Newsholme is wrong. I know who my money's on.

[thundergaz]

No Dave Mr. K's point was that the current CC teams of Leigh, Halifax, Fev and Shefield can beat the bottom clubs in Superleague as they stand. therefore P & R can easily work.

i.e. semi pro teams on 300K are as good as professional teams on wages of £1,100,000 to £1,600,000.

i.e. there's no difference in standard.

Widnes's £300K championship team has had to be bolstered by signings which have cost money, but they have managed six wins and are still building that team up.

My point is Featherstone need three years under a license to survive and grow, not one years promotion by P & R. Widnes are a good indication of that.

Parksider you are right about us needing the 3 years our BOD would be very unhappy if come 2015 P&R was re-introduced as all the hard work they have done would rely on one season.

[The Parksider]

My point was in regards to Widnes and the need for them to attain an 8,000 average to break even which they have only ever done once. This is an anointed, appointed, KMPG approved, bona fide, super dooper league club, so, if Widnes and Salford and Bradford and Crusaders and maybe Castleford, aslo KPMG approved licence holders, cannot make it in SL on the present salary cap, without even discussing any potential CC clubs chances in SL, then it's time to reduce expenses to a level where the said clubs can compete and the biggest expense of any business is wages and that should be where any attempt mto right the foundering SL ship should start.

It's a great point.

saying the RFL must save Salford is not a good point

saying current top CC teams can all beat the bottom four SL sides as they stood at the end of this season is not a good point

saying the RFL were "abandoning" Manchester for Rugby league if they don't save salford is not a good point

Indicating the current Fev club could stay up under P & R is not a good point