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#341 keighley

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:37 PM

Here’s my final stance. No Championship £300K team can hope to survive in Superleague. Lancashire and north Cheshire are well served by four fantastic RL clubs, the RFL/SLE owe Salford nothing, SL needs Bradford.


What a load of rubbish. West Yorkshire is well served with Leeds, Huddersfield, Castleford and Wakefield, one of them so fantastic they have won the SL a record number of times, and , should Bradford founder, Halifax and Featherstone are waiting in the wings. SL needs a Manchester presence much more than some dying ex textile town in West Yorkshire with four other SL teams around. Now I don't want Bradford to fail but SL does not need them more than it needs Salford.

#342 The Parksider

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:37 PM

Parksider you are right about us needing the 3 years our BOD would be very unhappy if come 2015 P&R was re-introduced as all the hard work they have done would rely on one season.


Tell Mr.K that please Gaz. Take him off my hands.....

#343 The Parksider

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

SL needs a Manchester presence


The why don't you write them a cheque for £600K a year every Christmas then.

The game can't afford it and that's where you go off into ideas that RL promotion is cheap and easy.....

#344 keighley

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

Oh yeh and here's my final final stance.

What was the score when Barrow last played Cas AT Cas.

Clearly Fev's famous cup win that places them around the tenth best team in the Rugby League in your eyes was not a freak result.

Everyone's doing it :lol:


Quite, so the top CC teams v the bottom SL teams is clearly not the unequal struggle you make it out to be.

#345 The Parksider

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:41 PM

Either Parksider or Matt Newsholme is wrong.


I think we both agree that Mr. Khan is not there to put large personal sums into Bradford.

#346 The Parksider

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:41 PM

Quite, so the top CC teams v the bottom SL teams is clearly not the unequal struggle you make it out to be.


Barrow for Superleague AND they will survive by your reasoning.......

#347 matt newsholme

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

I think we both agree that Mr. Khan is not there to put large personal sums into Bradford.


Define large personal sums? By my reckoning he's committed for about a million a year for next couple of years at least till we get full sky allocation back, hardly pocket change but not in Moran or Davies bracket either. Way you phrased it he was just running the club and putting nothing in at all.

#348 Dave T

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

No Dave Mr. K's point was that the current CC teams of Leigh, Halifax, Fev and Shefield can beat the bottom clubs in Superleague as they stand. therefore P & R can easily work.

i.e. semi pro teams on 300K are as good as professional teams on wages of £1,100,000 to £1,600,000.

i.e. there's no difference in standard.

Widnes's £300K championship team has had to be bolstered by signings which have cost money, but they have managed six wins and are still building that team up.

My point is Featherstone need three years under a license to survive and grow, not one years promotion by P & R. Widnes are a good indication of that.

Apologies then, I have lost the detail of this thread somewhat!

FWIW - I agree, I don't think P&R could just be brought back in without some restructuring and changes to the salary cap. This is the biggest challenge IMHO, as if you allow an £800k salary cap for example to allow the gap to be closed, you are risking destabilising the Championships.

I'm a fan personally of bringing back the 50% salary cap rule (up to the current limits), but I do accept that that brings competition issues with it.

#349 keighley

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

No Dave Mr. K's point was that the current CC teams of Leigh, Halifax, Fev and Shefield can beat the bottom clubs in Superleague as they stand. therefore P & R can easily work.

i.e. semi pro teams on 300K are as good as professional teams on wages of £1,100,000 to £1,600,000.

i.e. there's no difference in standard.

Widnes's £300K championship team has had to be bolstered by signings which have cost money, but they have managed six wins and are still building that team up.

My point is Featherstone need three years under a license to survive and grow, not one years promotion by P & R. Widnes are a good indication of that.


Featherstone's current team is light years ahead of the dross Widnes were putting on the field when they coasted through CC having already been given a licence. They don't need to upgrade as much as Widnes needed and still need to do to compete. I think, although its strictly my opinion, that Fev have a much better coaching team than Widnes, which also enables them to compete at SL level in a better fashion than Widnes did. Widnes may be working to a three year plan. If there was a chance they could have been relegated last season, they would have been working on a one year plan.

What plan are the Broncos working on a twenty year plan?

#350 The Parksider

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:52 PM

I think the people of Bradford were the ones voting with their feet. How much did the Bradford attendance average drop, from 15,000 to 8,000 wasn't it? Now that's what I call voting with your feet.


2012 average attendance 11,755 fourth best supported club in Superleague,

and that was in a bad year

Superleague needs Bradford, better supported than Hull.F.C. and Wire.

Look it up don't dream it up.

#351 The Parksider

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:54 PM

If there was a chance they could have been relegated last season, Widnes would have been working on a one year plan.


Go on then, finish the point? How does that work??

#352 The Parksider

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

Apologies then, I have lost the detail of this thread somewhat!

FWIW - I agree, I don't think P&R could just be brought back in without some restructuring and changes to the salary cap. This is the biggest challenge IMHO, as if you allow an £800k salary cap for example to allow the gap to be closed, you are risking destabilising the Championships.

I'm a fan personally of bringing back the 50% salary cap rule (up to the current limits), but I do accept that that brings competition issues with it.


No need to apologise to me Dave.

Mr. K and I actually agreed that if salary caps were altered then you could get financial stability in Superleague and also bring Superleague within range of several CC clubs who remain serious about entry.

I floated that idea and the only opinion I got was Padge saying that we needed ideas to generate more money not less (I think he meant that top club rich owners would be restricted in their financial input)

I take your point but the CC is becoming a league of ten feeder clubs just wanting to survive in CC and four superleague wannabees.

We suggested £1M salary cap for a 16 club SL such that when a club was promoted it could THEN afford full SL cap as SKY would provide the money in full for wages.

No real debate ever came from this though seems everyone is too entrenched after years of slinging bombs from the CC trenches to the SL trenches and back.

#353 keighley

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:03 PM

The why don't you write them a cheque for £600K a year every Christmas then.

The game can't afford it and that's where you go off into ideas that RL promotion is cheap and easy.....


If I could, I would and Keighley too as they are not tied to a SL club's apron strings like Hunslet.

Salford are a SL club last time I looked so what that's got to do with promotion, I have no idea.

#354 The Parksider

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

If I could, I would and Keighley too as they are not tied to a SL club's apron strings like Hunslet.


Oh how very dare you, I'm cut to the quick.

Dave T's interested in our joint thoughts on manageable P & R care to engage with him?

#355 keighley

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

Barrow for Superleague AND they will survive by your reasoning.......


That Barrow team was a pretty good team and, if we are strictly talking of on field ability, I think they would have survived in SL, not that they were ever going to be given a chance.. They too pushed Wigan hard in the Cup and pulled in 7,000 to Craven Park for the game.

You know full well that I support p and r with standards and Barrow would not have passed the stadium criterium and their investor was a bit dodgy but no more than some of the clubs that did get a SL licence
Still, as we all know, all clubs are equal but some clubs are more equal than others.

#356 keighley

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

2012 average attendance 11,755 fourth best supported club in Superleague,

and that was in a bad year

Superleague needs Bradford, better supported than Hull.F.C. and Wire.

Look it up don't dream it up.


Don't forget the cheap season ticket giveaway which equated to gate receipts of an 8,000 crowd AND they went bust. Before that they were down to 8,000.

#357 keighley

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:15 PM

Go on then, finish the point? How does that work??


It would have had then recruiting a little better to avoid last place. It didn't need to be huge recruitment, they were only in a relegation place on points difference. Maybe O'Connor would have opened his wallet a little more and brought in a couple of seasoned NRL recruits who could tackle.

#358 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

It didn't cause Widnes any money worries why they bedded in and tested out who was up to the job at SL level, we will probably see a very different Widnes this season.

Is that probaby an hopefully there padge, in order to back up your pro franchise views? I have seen little in terms of major player recruitment so I can't see there being a massive improvement.

Also has Robin pointed out I do believe that Widnes lost a fair bit last year. So I make it that Widnes have been treading water for at least 2 seasons now. The season before they did not really compete in the Championship and last season they were 'bedding in' no wonder the crowds aren't what they thought they would be if all you are watching for 2 years is a team that is not really competing.

Franchising - wonderful isn't it.
"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#359 keighley

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

Oh how very dare you, I'm cut to the quick.

Dave T's interested in our joint thoughts on manageable P & R care to engage with him?


You enunciated the proposal with which I wholeheartedly agreed. It was a long post and you should get the credit. Why don't you look it up and re post it . Maybe we will have a receptive audience this time.

#360 Trojan

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

They refused to pay for the championship and then even failed to put in an offer of any kind when someone else put money on the table. Hardly an assertion, I'd say that was fairly conclusive proof.

But surely it's up to the RFL to sell them the format they see as best for the greatest number of clubs. I don't see Sky telling the Premier League, the Football League or the RFU what format it should use for it main comps. Why should RL be any different? If they force the RFL to conform to their wishes then it'sthe tail wagging the dog and time the RFL looked around for another partner.
"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013




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