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#401 Viking Warrior

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:26 AM

1: our financial turnover was part of the reason we were given a license, the highest in CC....

2: the ground is owned by the council as a widnes rlfc trust.......

3:our academy was playing regularly in the under 18's and under 16's alongside the super league clubs, and in fact completed a full league season unbeaten, whilst still in the CC

4: we are talking about an england internationals and origin players who had to be hurriedly put together as opposed to the likes of kain who was found wanting in super league at both cas and widnes.............ever watched rhys hanbury and joe mellor??

5: as part of the license criteria we had to have a crowd average of over 2500, in fact it was 4,000

6: both clubs have punched well above their weight in the past, considering the size of the towns which they hail from.

try and read this reply and for a change let the facts cloud your delusional beliefs........................
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#402 Padge

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:30 AM

More financial difficulties? As if these two clubs never had problems previously. Elsewhere today I posted about Salford having to sell off bits of their ground to pay off £150k of debt (equivalent strangely enough to about £600k in todays money) in 1980, with a bit more digging I am sure I could show that we have two serial offenders.

If of course you have the evidence that the increases in attendanceare all down to freebies then please please do post it. Go on you know you want to.

Or are you just guessing without any knowledge at all.

I'll tell you what, instead just admit that the assertion that more people watched bottom of the table clashes pre SL and when there was P&R than without it is completely wrong.

Edited by Padge, 30 December 2012 - 12:36 AM.


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#403 LOWFIELD

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:32 AM

w@nker


Woolyback W@nker

#404 Viking Warrior

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:39 AM

better than keep being called a scouser,,,,,,,,,,,,,, <_< <_<
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#405 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:52 AM

1: our financial turnover was part of the reason we were given a license, the highest in CC....

2: the ground is owned by the council as a widnes rlfc trust.......

3:our academy was playing regularly in the under 18's and under 16's alongside the super league clubs, and in fact completed a full league season unbeaten, whilst still in the CC

4: we are talking about an england internationals and origin players who had to be hurriedly put together as opposed to the likes of kain who was found wanting in super league at both cas and widnes.............ever watched rhys hanbury and joe mellor??

5: as part of the license criteria we had to have a crowd average of over 2500, in fact it was 4,000

6: both clubs have punched well above their weight in the past, considering the size of the towns which they hail from.

try and read this reply and for a change let the facts cloud your delusional beliefs........................

1. We all know Widnes got the nod well before it was official. The offer about same price season tickets for the Championship and the first SL season springs to mind but 4,000 is pretty good I have to admit. If we got the nod then we could market this in the same way you did and achieve the same goal

2. So you don't own it.

3. I will have to take your word for that, although calling people a W@nker does make you lose credibility

4. England internationals who finished bottom of the pile and origin players over for one last pay check. Andy Kain was a young player low on confidence when he left Widnes and it took him a few years and good coaching by Powell to get him to the level he is now. I reckon he could do a job for some teams in SL. Hurredly put together don't make me laugh. You got the nod a good year before the actual announcement.

I have read your points and I am sorry you are still nuts.
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#406 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:55 AM

More financial difficulties? As if these two clubs never had problems previously. Elsewhere today I posted about Salford having to sell off bits of their ground to pay off £150k of debt (equivalent strangely enough to about £600k in todays money) in 1980, with a bit more digging I am sure I could show that we have two serial offenders.

If of course you have the evidence that the increases in attendanceare all down to freebies then please please do post it. Go on you know you want to.

Or are you just guessing without any knowledge at all.

I'll tell you what, instead just admit that the assertion that more people watched bottom of the table clashes pre SL and when there was P&R than without it is completely wrong.

Did they go into administration though???

My mate is a wakey fan and he has told me about some ticket deals at Wakey. He must have made it up just to pee you off.
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#407 Padge

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

Did they go into administration though???

My mate is a wakey fan and he has told me about some ticket deals at Wakey. He must have made it up just to pee you off.

The laws regarding administration have changed, it is now a business option, more businesses in general take advantage of the new laws not just RL clubs

Another bloke down the pub told me 'fact', stick to the point. How people get in is a different discussion

Did more people go to the SL post license games than the pre-SL auto P&R games, yes or no. It is often stated on here as a fact that they did. The actual figures prove that statement completely wrong. Stop trying to deflect from the unpalatable truth that has been put in front of you. A Yes or No answer will do fine.

Edited by Padge, 30 December 2012 - 09:17 AM.


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#408 Padge

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:29 AM

My mate is a wakey fan and he has told me about some ticket deals at Wakey. He must have made it up just to pee you off.


Lets deal with this separately, before this discussion can go anywhere you have to be armed with some facts.

How many tickets are given 'free', what percentage take up is their of these tickets, what is the average match day spend on the back of each ticket.

If the tickets are given to children who must be accompanied by an adult cash paying customer, how many are taken up and how many have a new accompanying adult or adults.

When you are armed with these facts we can discuss this angle.

I await the results of your research.

Edited by Padge, 30 December 2012 - 09:30 AM.


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#409 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:55 AM

The laws regarding administration have changed, it is now a business option, more businesses in general take advantage of the new laws not just RL clubs

Another bloke down the pub told me 'fact', stick to the point. How people get in is a different discussion

Did more people go to the SL post license games than the pre-SL auto P&R games, yes or no. It is often stated on here as a fact that they did. The actual figures prove that statement completely wrong. Stop trying to deflect from the unpalatable truth that has been put in front of you. A Yes or No answer will do fine.

Padge figures probably show that more people go to SL games now but how accurate are figures.

Pre-SL clubs would never gave the true figure of attendances for tax reasons. Now you have clubs battling for a franchise place and need to show that attendances are up in order to not be the ones for the chop. I have no proof of this happening because no one connected to the clubs would be sane enough to tell me this.

You are too drawn to figures published in your Rothmans year book instead of actually knowing the true facts. Anyone with a bit of common sense can make figures work especially people with money, however when the money dries up the figures just do not add up. This is what is happening at these SL clubs in trouble.
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#410 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:02 AM

Lets deal with this separately, before this discussion can go anywhere you have to be armed with some facts.

How many tickets are given 'free', what percentage take up is their of these tickets, what is the average match day spend on the back of each ticket.

If the tickets are given to children who must be accompanied by an adult cash paying customer, how many are taken up and how many have a new accompanying adult or adults.

When you are armed with these facts we can discuss this angle.

I await the results of your research.

I can put points across without having facts. Believe it or not you do not run this forum.

I never said free tickets, I said ticket deals. I take my daughter to the matches now due to family deals but she just plays on her DS and has no interest in RL whatsoever. However it allows my wife to have a few hours away from the kids and I get to watch my RL. This could not have happened pre SL franchising, you had to pay full price to watch Rugby League. If you liked RL you paid it, if you didn't then you stayed at home.
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#411 Padge

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:24 AM

Did they go into administration though???

On this point


These are all pre 2002 when the law regarding administration changed.

Dec 20th 1990
Leigh £900,000 in debt, considering selling ground to relieve chronic financial problems.

January 1991
Leigh enter administration

March 4th 1992
Trafford Borough have an attendance of 150 for their match v Highfield.

April 3rd 1992
Trafford Borough face extinction as they are due in the High Court to answer a winding up petition.

14th Sepember 1993
Oldham escape winding up order by 24 hours. They agree to pay monies from TV games to players who's contracts they didn't honour.

October 1993
Huddersfield enter administration
19 February 1994
Oldham came close to going out of business because of a petition brought against them by an Oldham Athletic Director.

July 1994
Leigh enter administration.

22 July 1994
Doncaster face winding up order

16 Dec 1994
Doncaster, who have debts of around £1.4 million, who have already fought off winding-up orders brought by the Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise this season, are pinning hopes on an administration order, a breathing-space device which would enable them to fulfil their fixtures while seeking new owners.

March 1995
Doncaster in administration.

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#412 Griff

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:54 AM

Fair point :)

Sadly for the sport the number of those Directors willing (or able) to put in significant sums are plummeting.


They shouldn't need to.

In the real world if a business isn't profitable it closes down.

Like Comet.
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#413 Griff

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:59 AM

We can cover the losses though unlike the other 3. But I've always said if you want to get out of this league you will have to make substantial losses. Also we are the only club using the full salary cap and in a league like this you have to accept if you use the full salary cap you will make losses. Ambition costs money and plenty of it. I personally think out of the 4 clubs that want SL we are the only club that can actually fund a SL place.


Rovers are covering the losses by borrowing more money. Those lenders will want it back eventually. How will Rovers pay them ? Borrow more money ?

Eventually, Rovers will run out of lenders and sell the land they own.
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#414 Robin Evans

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

They shouldn't need to.

In the real world if a business isn't profitable it closes down.

Like Comet.

how many rugby league clubs have posted losses this last three years?
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#415 Griff

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:03 AM

What was the score when Featherstone last played Castleford ?


Jeez - no sooner have I mentioned fans extrapolating one result into a Championship than somebody mentions Fev beating Cas. Nobody mentions the 0-70 drubbing they got against Saints.





Well, except me just now, obviously.
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#416 Griff

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:12 AM

But surely it's up to the RFL to sell them the format they see as best for the greatest number of clubs. I don't see Sky telling the Premier League, the Football League or the RFU what format it should use for it main comps. Why should RL be any different? If they force the RFL to conform to their wishes then it'sthe tail wagging the dog and time the RFL looked around for another partner.


Look around ? How many players are there in this market ?

Look all you want but Sky will give the best option.

You only have to see all the mutterings last year on the Championship fora about having to pay an extra £80 for Premier Sports to see that moving to another subscription channel would not be popular.
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#417 Robin Evans

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:15 AM

Jeez - no sooner have I mentioned fans extrapolating one result into a Championship than somebody mentions Fev beating Cas. Nobody mentions the 0-70 drubbing they got against Saints.





Well, except me just now, obviously.

Well I think that's one of the points Griff. i.e. if Fev were given their opportunity in SL, the likes of Cas, widnes, salford et al would be games fev would target in their debut season.. Leeds, Warrington, Saints and Wigan - unless Wigan field their young uns cos they think Fev would roll over.... would probably be an unrealisic expectation unless a freak performance ensues from either team.
Now, I don't pin the cas result last year as evidence of "competability" in SL.Raising your game v a team that is towing is one thing. Sustaining that week in week out is another and as you point out, after 3-4 50 point tuppings heads would go down.
But I still believe promotion should be an option given to the winning championship team.
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#418 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:24 AM

Jeez - no sooner have I mentioned fans extrapolating one result into a Championship than somebody mentions Fev beating Cas. Nobody mentions the 0-70 drubbing they got against Saints.





Well, except me just now, obviously.

32-16 wasn't bad against a Wigan side on top of its game Griff. With a bit of luck it would have been a lot closer or even better than that. Tries in the dying seconds of each half to wigan produced a flattering score line in their favour. So it wasn't just one result to get excited about.
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#419 Griff

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:26 AM

how many rugby league clubs have posted losses this last three years?


Loads. I haven't got all the results but Shuddersfield seem to be the worst offenders.

But .... Leigh, Sheffield and Halifax all made profits last year. Fev lost twice as much as all three of those put together - give or take a few quid. Do they have significantly more on the field success to show for it ? Debateable - but I'd say no.

People tend to see Featherstone as a club whose financial affairs are based on prudence. Companies House say different.
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#420 Griff

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 11:27 AM

32-16 wasn't bad against a Wigan side on top of its game Griff. With a bit of luck it would have been a lot closer or even better than that. Tries in the dying seconds of each half to wigan produced a flattering score line in their favour. So it wasn't just one result to get excited about.


Still no bonus point, Terry.
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