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#101 The Parksider

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 05:37 PM

I must admit that is a bit iof a flakey post from me but I definitely remember that there was an amazing aggregate attendance from the Calder triumverate on the same weekend in the Cup.


I don't recall RKC doing attendances, it was suggested though but the info was considered too patchy?.

You used to get them in RL review (1947-56) boy there were some big ones.

Cup attendances?? Wakefield 1962 against Wigan 24K, Fev 1959 against saints 17K, Cas 22k For HKR 1967.......

1983 Hunslet.v.Cas 14,000 so I don't think there's much you can take from attendances in the old days through to today other than Wakefield are the most likely to get the biggest crowds of the three if they can compete in SL. 2006 11,000 .v.Cas.....

#102 keighley

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 07:37 PM

Wigan got 47,474 for a derby with Saints in 1958, doesn't mean we could (even if the stadium had the capacity) manage that now.

The time you are on about is R1 of The CC 10th Feb 1962, can't give you the attendances though. It happened again the following season 13th March 1963

1962
Fev 21 Batley 14
Cas 12 Bradford 0
Wakefield 40 warrington 18

Wakefield and Wigan clashed at Belle Vue in R3 5 - 4
Wakefield made the final that year and won it 12 - 6 against Huddersfield, they beat Fev in the semi 9 - 0 att 43,627

1963
Cas 8 Leeds 10
Fev 32 Batley 2
Wakefield 15 Bradford 3

Wakefield beat Wigan in the final 25 - 10


No indeed. Thank you for taking the time to check it out. But all these things a relative. Bradford once got 6 or 700 for a derby against Keighley and then went bust leaving Keighley promoted to Div 1 and definitely the top team in the Bradford metro area. That dosn't mean it could be replicated now though.

Time was in say 1920, when Wakefield were the only senior team in Calderdale but ten year later there were the three. Things change and sometimes for the better. Right now things look rosy for Fev and Trinity but Castleford might just resolve their stadium and finance issues and all three might thrive. One can never say never.

#103 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 08:43 PM

It's been a good year for Fev and 2013 could be even better. Fantastic club!
http://www.featherst...le.php?id=10117

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 24 December 2012 - 08:43 PM.

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#104 Padge

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 08:51 PM

No indeed. Thank you for taking the time to check it out. But all these things a relative. Bradford once got 6 or 700 for a derby against Keighley and then went bust leaving Keighley promoted to Div 1 and definitely the top team in the Bradford metro area. That dosn't mean it could be replicated now though.

Time was in say 1920, when Wakefield were the only senior team in Calderdale but ten year later there were the three. Things change and sometimes for the better. Right now things look rosy for Fev and Trinity but Castleford might just resolve their stadium and finance issues and all three might thrive. One can never say never.

No indeed. Thank you for taking the time to check it out. But all these things a relative. Bradford once got 6 or 700 for a derby against Keighley and then went bust leaving Keighley promoted to Div 1 and definitely the top team in the Bradford metro area. That dosn't mean it could be replicated now though.

Time was in say 1920, when Wakefield were the only senior team in Calderdale but ten year later there were the three. Things change and sometimes for the better. Right now things look rosy for Fev and Trinity but Castleford might just resolve their stadium and finance issues and all three might thrive. One can never say never.

Personally having done a lot of looking at attendances, demographics and recent history, I think that the chances of 'Calderdale' supporting 3 SL clubs to a sustainable level is nigh on impossible in this day and age. Its struggling to support 2.

I did a post a while back showing how the demographics of the area compared to other areas basically had them hemmed in and with not much of a target market other than their very local support.

It doesn't mean I'm right but I haven't seen a counter argument put forward that the demographic gives them a lot of room for massive expansion in support. I'll see if I saved it and repost it.

Of course if each club obtained a long term sugar daddy to bankroll them infinitely, then they could do it, unfortunately as we have seen in the past many a sugar daddy runs out of sugar. Wilkinson has pulled the plug, Hudgel wants out, O'Conner and Lenigan insist Widnes and Wigan pay their way, Davey and Hughes seem willing to keep going, Hughes reluctantly, Glover, time will tell.

My personal preference would be for one super club for the area, but if they don't want it I couldn't care less, they can fight it out and I believe eventually there will only be one and the other two will be severely damaged in the fight. The one who generates the most money will win, that's the way of pro sport.

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#105 thundergaz

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:55 PM

My personal preference would be for one super club for the area, but if they don't want it I couldn't care less, they can fight it out and I believe eventually there will only be one and the other two will be severely damaged in the fight. The one who generates the most money will win, that's the way of pro sport.

.


No chance it will never happen. Also I very much doubt there will be only one of us 3 in SL at any one time unless P&R comes back. You knock the area but wakey are on the up we are too and c@s will do better this upcoming season IMO.So you have to say the area is on the up not down.

Edited by thundergaz, 24 December 2012 - 09:56 PM.


#106 Padge

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:59 PM

No chance it will never happen. Also I very much doubt there will be only one of us 3 in SL at any one time unless P&R comes back. You knock the area but wakey are on the up we are too and c@s will do better this upcoming season IMO.So you have to say the area is on the up not down.

Where exactly did I say the area is on the down?

Where did I knock the area?

Did you actually understand the post I made?

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#107 thundergaz

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:02 PM

Where exactly did I say the area is on the down?

Where did I knock the area?

Did you actually understand the post I made?


Yes you want one team from our area to be in SL i.e a merger you must be an idiot for suggesting that in the first place also you said only one of us 3 should be in SL if a merger doesn't happen. You and parksider are like 2 peas in a pod.Clubs are going bust as it is without killing 2 more clubs off. Do you want a SL of 5 teams?

Edited by thundergaz, 24 December 2012 - 10:07 PM.


#108 Padge

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:28 PM

Yes you want one team from our area to be in SL i.e a merger you must be an idiot for suggesting that in the first place also you said only one of us 3 should be in SL if a merger doesn't happen. You and parksider are like 2 peas in a pod.Clubs are going bust as it is without killing 2 more clubs off. Do you want a SL of 5 teams?


I never mentioned merger, why does one club have to be a merger, you haven't read what I said.

I never said only one of you should be in SL, I said only one would eventually finish up in SL, you haven't read what I said.

I have never said 'kill off two clubs', have you read what I said.

Get your brain in gear, read EXACTLY what I posted, stop trying to presume what I mean and read the words.

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#109 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:55 PM

No indeed. Thank you for taking the time to check it out. But all these things a relative. Bradford once got 6 or 700 for a derby against Keighley and then went bust leaving Keighley promoted to Div 1 and definitely the top team in the Bradford metro area. That dosn't mean it could be replicated now though.

Time was in say 1920, when Wakefield were the only senior team in Calderdale but ten year later there were the three. Things change and sometimes for the better. Right now things look rosy for Fev and Trinity but Castleford might just resolve their stadium and finance issues and all three might thrive. One can never say never.


Right - how about you look up what Claderdale is and what towns it includes. For somebody supposedly from Keighley your local geography is a rubbish as your posts are boring.
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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The real Mick Gledhill is what you see on here, a Bradford fan ........, but deep down knows that Bradford are just not good enough to challenge the likes of Leeds & St Helens.


#110 Padge

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:05 PM

Right - how about you look up what Claderdale is and what towns it includes. For somebody supposedly from Keighley your local geography is a rubbish as your posts are boring.

I always try to remember to put 'Calderdale' in quotation marks, hopefully when I do that, those don't like it know why I do it, Trojan fails to notice them continually but never mind.

Can't speak for Keighley of course.

Edited by Padge, 24 December 2012 - 11:06 PM.


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#111 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:28 PM

The only way to succeed in SL is either being able to attract large crowds consistently like Wigan, Leeds etc.. or to have a sugar daddy. And sugar daddies only last so long. Wakefield would not be on the up without Glover's financial input and history has shown that it cannot be sustained. I have nothing against Fev at all, but if they do get into SL they will be destined to prop up the table like Salford, Cas, Harlequins without the financial muscle to ever compete for honours.

There is a difference between true sponsorship which is commercially sustainable and very generous businessmen donating large sums to clubs as "sponsorship" which is not sustainable. I don't know who the "global" businesses are who sponsor Fev but do you honestly believe a global business would select a former mining village CC RL team near Wakefield as a commercial sponsorship? Will they recoup the costs and more in additional sales? No they won't, so it is not a commercial sponsorship.

I truly hope Fev get into SL but don't believe that they will ever be anything other than long term whipping boys like Salford, Cas, Harlequins unless they can attract a wealthy sugar daddy.

#112 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:46 AM

The only way to succeed in SL is either being able to attract large crowds consistently like Wigan, Leeds etc.. or to have a sugar daddy. And sugar daddies only last so long. Wakefield would not be on the up without Glover's financial input and history has shown that it cannot be sustained. I have nothing against Fev at all, but if they do get into SL they will be destined to prop up the table like Salford, Cas, Harlequins without the financial muscle to ever compete for honours.

There is a difference between true sponsorship which is commercially sustainable and very generous businessmen donating large sums to clubs as "sponsorship" which is not sustainable. I don't know who the "global" businesses are who sponsor Fev but do you honestly believe a global business would select a former mining village CC RL team near Wakefield as a commercial sponsorship? Will they recoup the costs and more in additional sales? No they won't, so it is not a commercial sponsorship.

I truly hope Fev get into SL but don't believe that they will ever be anything other than long term whipping boys like Salford, Cas, Harlequins unless they can attract a wealthy sugar daddy.

So in reality Super League is anything but super because no more than five or six can afford to sustain full time professionalism. What's the answer? Don't London have a sugar daddy?

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 25 December 2012 - 12:52 AM.

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#113 Padge

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:05 AM

So in reality Super League is anything but super because no more than five or six can afford to sustain full time professionalism. What's the answer? Don't London have a sugar daddy?

And every single club in the Championship has an equal chance of winning it, or will the 'big' clubs be the ones chasing the prize at the end. The Championship will be won by a club that is in the top spenders, and if Fev make it to SL, they had better find ways of finding income and lots of it, because if they intend to be competitive they'll needs a lot of dosh.

In my list I posted that Hughes was a reluctant SD, He went for a cheap coach to cut costs, and cut performance, lets see how they go with Rae at the helm. If your sugar daddy has deep pockets but his arms are getting shorter it doesn't matter how rich he is.

Edited by Padge, 25 December 2012 - 09:24 AM.


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#114 thundergaz

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 10:21 AM

And every single club in the Championship has an equal chance of winning it, or will the 'big' clubs be the ones chasing the prize at the end. The Championship will be won by a club that is in the top spenders, and if Fev make it to SL, they had better find ways of finding income and lots of it, because if they intend to be competitive they'll needs a lot of dosh.

In my list I posted that Hughes was a reluctant SD, He went for a cheap coach to cut costs, and cut performance, lets see how they go with Rae at the helm. If your sugar daddy has deep pockets but his arms are getting shorter it doesn't matter how rich he is.


I agree but the salary cap was brought in to make the SL more competitive but as it really made much difference? Wigan back in the day won everything in sight because they were the richest club. Now we have 4 rich clubs in Leeds, Wigan, wire and saints which the salary cap as closed the gap between these 4 but you can forget the rest unless like you say one of them gets a bloke like roman like Chelsea have. So you have to question is the salary cap really making the SL more competitive? I know if it wasn't in place the clubs above would be further in front of the rest but as it really closed the gap for the rest? I personally don't think it as it as just given Leeds, wire and saints a chance of stopping the mighty Wigan of yester year running away with it.

Edited by thundergaz, 25 December 2012 - 10:23 AM.


#115 Padge

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 10:50 AM

I agree but the salary cap was brought in to make the SL more competitive but as it really made much difference? Wigan back in the day won everything in sight because they were the richest club. Now we have 4 rich clubs in Leeds, Wigan, wire and saints which the salary cap as closed the gap between these 4 but you can forget the rest unless like you say one of them gets a bloke like roman like Chelsea have. So you have to question is the salary cap really making the SL more competitive? I know if it wasn't in place the clubs above would be further in front of the rest but as it really closed the gap for the rest? I personally don't think it as it as just given Leeds, wire and saints a chance of stopping the mighty Wigan of yester year running away with it.

The cap was brought in originally to stop clubs overspending, it was set at 50% of income with a plan to reduce it to 40%, Clubs with lower turnover felt disadvantaged by this as 50% if Wigan or Leeds' income was far higher that 50% of Wakefield's or Salford's. The clubs changed the rules to a flat limit, opening clubs up to over spending. The clubs that wanted to remove the income limit on spending did the game no favours. They needed to concentrate on increasing income but instead wanted to go for the quick fix of overspending hoping it would have a by product of increasing income.

The cap wasn't introduced to level the game, though if everyone can afford the full cap that would be a by-product.

Edited by Padge, 25 December 2012 - 10:54 AM.


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#116 The Parksider

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:48 AM

Yes you want one team from our area to be in SL i.e a merger you must be an idiot for suggesting that in the first place also you said only one of us 3 should be in SL if a merger doesn't happen. You and parksider are like 2 peas in a pod.Clubs are going bust as it is without killing 2 more clubs off. Do you want a SL of 5 teams?


“Idiot”?? C’mon Gaz, spirit of Christmas and goodwill to all RL fans? Don’t be the next in a long line of frustrated Fev fans, to start getting all nasty.

Nobody nowadays suggests merger that’s gone, but the reality is that Wakefield will try to take every decent player off you, every local sponsor and every floating and new fan in the area. In turn Cas will try to do the same to you and Wakey and so it will come to pass Featherstone will try to do it back.

Under those conditions three clubs aren’t going to thrive like Wigan, Wire and Saints who carve up the whole of the Cheshire/Lancashire/Greater Manchester area and have enough turkey each to keep their clubs well served, with a few scraps left for the feeder clubs.

Your point about 5 teams is pushing it but I do take it in good Christmas spirit, at the moment the chances are it will be 12 clubs 2015, so will the RFL look to admit three from one relatively small area?

For me this debate needs to move on from it’s usual descent into frustration and subsequent name calling. I have called for a debate over a 16 club Superleague in which all clubs work to a cap all can afford like £1 Million, then we can have three competetive clubs in “cald…….(sorry Kenny) two in Hull and two in France etc. Good idea Gaz??? Anyone??

Edited by The Parksider, 25 December 2012 - 11:51 AM.


#117 thundergaz

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

“Idiot”?? C’mon Gaz, spirit of Christmas and goodwill to all RL fans? Don’t be the next in a long line of frustrated Fev fans, to start getting all nasty.

Nobody nowadays suggests merger that’s gone, but the reality is that Wakefield will try to take every decent player off you, every local sponsor and every floating and new fan in the area. In turn Cas will try to do the same to you and Wakey and so it will come to pass Featherstone will try to do it back.

Under those conditions three clubs aren’t going to thrive like Wigan, Wire and Saints who carve up the whole of the Cheshire/Lancashire/Greater Manchester area and have enough turkey each to keep their clubs well served, with a few scraps left for the feeder clubs.

Your point about 5 teams is pushing it but I do take it in good Christmas spirit, at the moment the chances are it will be 12 clubs 2015, so will the RFL look to admit three from one relatively small area?

For me this debate needs to move on from it’s usual descent into frustration and subsequent name calling. I have called for a debate over a 16 club Superleague in which all clubs work to a cap all can afford like £1 Million, then we can have three competetive clubs in “cald…….(sorry Kenny) two in Hull and two in France etc. Good idea Gaz??? Anyone??


I like the idea but how many clubs can afford to spend the million? I don't know what clubs spend on their salary caps at present but I do know the likes of Wigan, Leeds, saints and wire spend more than the rest. I would assume these clubs use the full salary cap and the rest use what they can afford or overspend like we have seen with Salford and Bradford recently. But on the whole it's a good idea it's just how many clubs would be able to participate in it while running a club and not going bust by having to spend the million every season. I also know sky give money but would that figure reduce if clubs were just spending a million? ( as I don't know so it's a genuine question)

Edited by thundergaz, 25 December 2012 - 12:10 PM.


#118 The Parksider

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:56 PM

I like the idea but how many clubs can afford to spend the million? I don't know what clubs spend on their salary caps at present but I do know the likes of Wigan, Leeds, saints and wire spend more than the rest. I would assume these clubs use the full salary cap and the rest use what they can afford or overspend like we have seen with Salford and Bradford recently. But on the whole it's a good idea it's just how many clubs would be able to participate in it while running a club and not going bust by having to spend the million every season. I also know sky give money but would that figure reduce if clubs were just spending a million? ( as I don't know so it's a genuine question)


Easy full cap spenders are roughly Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Wire, Catalans, Hull

Those who get there on private money Fartown (note these were the top 7 last year) London, Widnes,

Below that HKR £1.1M Wakefield, Bradford, Salford & Cas would all manage a million.

Fev and Fax would with Nahaboo/Campbell and Abbot...

Leigh? Probably close but not close enough. First reserve

So there you have virtually all the clubs who wanna be in SL and probably can at this level of cap spend being in SL and all on an equal cap..

Let battle commence???

Unless anyone wants to set out a well constructed critique of this festive star on top of the tree thesis??

Or is it a turkey...

Ah I hear the dinner gong, must change.....

#119 keighley

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

Right - how about you look up what Claderdale is and what towns it includes. For somebody supposedly from Keighley your local geography is a rubbish as your posts are boring.


I am only using the name that was given to the proposed name of the team that they wanted to create at the beginning of SL by merging Cas, Fev and Trinity.I didn t coin the name and if it dosn t fit I ll gladly use whatever name you want to ascribe to the area. And why would someone from Keighley have inimate knowledge of Calderdale/ Wakefield Metro area/ Rhubarb land. Keighley is in Airedale in the Northern part of Bradford just to be pedantic and boring but Meryy Xmas nonetheless.

#120 Matt J

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 06:27 PM

There have been statements from Fev and the odd comment from certain directors and employees which suggest that the club are looking at other forms of revenue away from Rugby League... I don't think theyre going in blind thinking that money will last forever from sponsors such as Heiniken (or Fosters), DS Smith Packaging, Probiz et al. So to look away from the 2,000 (possibly more in 2 years time) fans that come through the gate is a smart idea.

The RFL & Super League set out this criteria what every club aiming for SL should have, Featherstone are bit by bit building themselves up, thats all they can do. If we get the chance in SL, im sure that the board will know exactly what plan to put in place to ensure were not solely relying on fans and/or consortiums.

Cummins Out.





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