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108 replies to this topic

#81 gingerjon

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:52 AM

Because we've got enough scroungers of our own to pay for, without importing everbody else's.
;) :D


Good.

No problem with paying decent benefits to people under pension age then.
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#82 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:55 AM

No, its all 'above board' so to speak. He must be near 'retirement' age now so not sure what will happen then.


how do you know?

how do you know the full satory of his disability? 'Tennis elbow' as far as I know is treatable, and doesn't p[resent issues with mobility anyway.

it is after all his business.

You could of course make it your business and take it up with him.

We often don't know what we think know about people.
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#83 Johnoco

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:56 AM

He'll get a pension and Wolford will stop complaining about whatever amount of money he gets.

A true conversation that once happened in the pub. Someone was berating him for being a lazy freeloader etc. He replied 'you're the idiot, lets see who gets the better pension'...the other bloke conceded defeat because it was true.

Its absolutely mad that this can happen.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

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#84 Wolford6

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:56 AM

Good.

No problem with paying decent benefits to people under pension age then.


If they've earned the right by being in a position of having paid in for at least fifteen years.
If they are Britsh nationals

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#85 gingerjon

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:57 AM

If they've earned the right by being in a position of having paid in for at least fifteen years.
If they are Britsh nationals


I got JSA in 2011. I paid national insurance for 12 years prior to that.

So, y'know, thanks for caring ...
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#86 Johnoco

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

how do you know?

how do you know the full satory of his disability? 'Tennis elbow' as far as I know is treatable, and doesn't p[resent issues with mobility anyway.

it is after all his business.

You could of course make it your business and take it up with him.

We often don't know what we think know about people.

I know him pretty well as I used to knock around with his son. He has told me the score on more than one occasion; he is happy to sponge. Not z rumour, I know its true.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#87 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:00 PM

A true conversation that once happened in the pub. Someone was berating him for being a lazy freeloader etc. He replied 'you're the idiot, lets see who gets the better pension'...the other bloke conceded defeat because it was true.

Its absolutely mad that this can happen.


you can't legislate for people being assholes
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#88 Johnoco

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:05 PM

you can't legislate for people being assholes

You can take steps to stop them living for free though.

People like this are a small minority but are relatively easy to stop if the will was there.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#89 Wolford6

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

I got JSA in 2011. I paid national insurance for 12 years prior to that.

So, y'know, thanks for caring ...


I'm sorry, but I don't know what JSA is. You have my sympathy for suffering any condition or illness.

Either way, you are a British citizen ... same way that any British child or adult would qualify.

I think what we are arguing about is what is to be regarded as a "decent" level of benefits payments.

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#90 Griff9of13

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't know what JSA is. You have my sympathy for suffering any condition or illness.

Either way, you are a British citizen ... same way that any British child or adult would qualify.

I think what we are arguing about is what is to be regarded as a "decent" level of benefits payments.


JSA = Job Seekers Allowance.
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#91 gingerjon

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't know what JSA is. You have my sympathy for suffering any condition or illness.


Jobseekers allowance. I got it for 6 weeks whilst I was 'between jobs'. I was insanely lucky to only have to sign on for such a short period.

My elder son also gets disability living allowance. In part it's because he has a condition similar to ADHD which the Daily Mail likes to call 'naughty child syndrome'.

In this, as in so much else, the Daily Mail is talking greasy ballacks.
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#92 JohnM

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:15 PM

If you receive the Higher Rate Mobility Component (HRMC) of the Disability Living Allowance (DLA) (currently £54.05 per week) or the War Pensioners' Mobility Supplement (WPMS) (currently £60.40 per week), you’re eligible to join the Motability Scheme. see http://www.motabilit...me/eligibility/

for DLA see http://www.carersuk....a/all-about-dla

in effect, you pay for a motability car with the mobility component of your DLA if you are eligible.

these are the criteria for higher rate mobility component

For the higher rate you must have a physical disability that means:
  • you are unable to walk; or
  • you are virtually unable to walk; or
  • you cannot walk without the effort required endangering your life or seriously affecting your health; or
  • you have had both legs amputated at or above the ankle, or you were born without legs or feet; regardless of whether you wear artificial limbs or
  • you are both deaf and blind (80% deaf and 100% blind); or
  • you are assessed as 'severely visually impaired'. This is a new category that applies from 11th April 2011
Rest assured, that unless there is fraud going on, then these allowances are not easy to obtain, especially as this and the previous govt tightened up very significantly by introducing new assessments such as the Work Capability Assessment.

Edited by JohnM, 03 January 2013 - 12:20 PM.


#93 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:15 PM

You can take steps to stop them living for free though.

People like this are a small minority but are relatively easy to stop if the will was there.


like I said make it your business, but make sure you get your facts right, because 'bloke says to bloke in a pub...' doesn't quite cut it IMHO.

I don't like people ripping the system off any more than you. It tars deserving people(ie the vast majority) with the same brush as them, and people do get prosecuted for benefit fraud.

Whatever system we have people will subvert it. What matters to me is that when any steps are taken innocent deserving people-people who are entitled, aren't penalised as well.
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#94 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

If you receive the Higher Rate Mobility Component (HRMC) of the Disability Living Allowance (DLA) (currently £54.05 per week) or the War Pensioners' Mobility Supplement (WPMS) (currently £60.40 per week), you’re eligible to join the Motability Scheme. see http://www.motabilit...me/eligibility/

for DLA see http://www.carersuk....a/all-about-dla

in effect, you pay for a motability car with the mobility component of your DLA if you are eligible.

these are the criteria for higher rate mobility component

For the higher rate you must have a physical disability that means:

  • you are unable to walk; or
  • you are virtually unable to walk; or
  • you cannot walk without the effort required endangering your life or seriously affecting your health; or
  • you have had both legs amputated at or above the ankle, or you were born without legs or feet; regardless of whether you wear artificial limbs or
  • you are both deaf and blind (80% deaf and 100% blind); or
  • you are assessed as 'severely visually impaired'. This is a new category that applies from 11th April 2011


so no tennis elbow then

and thanks for the info: you beat me to it.
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#95 Johnoco

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:19 PM

Hang on, I agree. That's why I used a cast iron example that I know is true - nothing 'bloke down pub says..' about it. If you mean I should report him to the social or something, that's a separate issue.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#96 Wolford6

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

As I understand it, the conditions provided by JohnM relate to the "higher" allowance and that around 3000 people are issued with such cars. There is a lower-grade scheme whereby something like 30,000 people currently qualify for a car.

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#97 Griff9of13

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:45 PM

The thing that the Daily Wail et al conveniently seem to forget is that the vast majority of people claiming benefits circumstances will be similar to our own Gingerjon, with a tiny minority being like Johnoco's mate with tennis elbow.
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#98 JohnM

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:45 PM

Not heard of that, Wolford6. The rules seem to state that the only people who qualify are those in receipt of the Higher Rate Mobility Component (HRMC) of the Disability Living Allowance (DLA) (currently £54.05 per week) or the War Pensioners' Mobility Supplement (WPMS)

Today, around 600,000 disabled people and their families benefit from the worry-free mobility available throughout the Scheme.. Motability Operations is a not-for-profit company responsible for the finance, administration and maintenance of Motability cars, scooters and powered wheelchairs. When you lease a vehicle through Motability, all or part of your mobility allowance is paid directly to Motability Operations for the length of the agreement.

Edited by JohnM, 03 January 2013 - 12:46 PM.


#99 Johnoco

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

The thing that the Daily Wail et al conveniently seem to forget is that the vast majority of people claiming benefits circumstances will be similar to our own Gingerjon, with a tiny minority being like Johnoco's mate with tennis elbow.

Correct but pretending such people don't exist and are not draining funds that could go towards more deserving people is no good either.

In my book, all fiddlers from benefit cheats to bankers should get short shift.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#100 Griff9of13

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

Correct but pretending such people don't exist and are not draining funds that could go towards more deserving people is no good either.

In my book, all fiddlers from benefit cheats to bankers should get short shift.


I don't disagree when it comes to those on the fiddle. However, there does seem to be an orchestrated campaign in certain sections of the media AND this con-dem government to demonise ALL those who find they need to claim benefits. Just look at the emotive language used in the articles linked to by Walford. They are littered with words such as "handouts", "scroungers" etc.
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."




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