Jump to content


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

News on Salford

strictly red topic

  • Please log in to reply
467 replies to this topic

#201 Segovia Carpet

Segovia Carpet
  • Coach
  • 1,419 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:45 PM

More meat on the bone :-


Veivers has signings on ice

Salford head coach Phil Veivers has up to 10 players waiting to sign for the City Reds once the Super League club's takeover goes through.

As talks with potential buyer Dr Marwan Koukash, the St Helens-based multi-millionaire racehorse owner, continue to progress, Veivers has expressed his optimism that the cash-strapped club can be saved.

Veivers, who has had a telephone conversation with Dr Koukash, is expected to remain in position under the new owner and is stepping up his preparations for the new season, which is just three weeks away.

"I've had a chat to see where we're at," said Veivers. "I don't want to reveal some of the stuff we spoke about.

"I'm not counting my chickens but I'm very positive there's going to be a positive outcome."

Koukash, owner of global executive training company EuroMaTech, flew back from Dubai earlier this week to hold talks with development company Peel Holdings and Salford Council, the joint landlords of the Salford City Stadium, who are both keen to keep the ailing club afloat.

A further meeting was held at the stadium on Thursday morning between outgoing club chairman John Wilkinson, RFL chief executive Nigel Wood and former chairman of New Zealand Rugby League Andrew Chalmers, who is expected to play a role in the new management.

It is thought a deal could be completed within days, which would be a major relief for Veivers, who has endured a traumatic pre-season.

"I'd be a liar if I said it had run smoothly," he said. "What I can say is that the players have rolled their sleeves up got and stuck in.

"Obviously there's been some blips when the players have had down days, wondering whether they're going to have a job or not.

"It's been very tough. I've had the same fears as the players but we've had to be there to pick them up.

"Through the whole pre-season, there's probably only been one day when I was deflated and felt the worst.

"I went home and said to the wife I needed to sort myself out. It wasn't something I needed the players to see."

Veivers advised his players and coaching colleagues to find a "plan B" in case the club folded and that led to rumours that assistant coach Sean Long was set to join a Super League rival.

The former Bradford and Wigan assistant boss insists his right-hand man is staying and hopes they will both sign new contracts with the club.

"Myself and Sean are contracted for another year and before all this started we were in negotiations to extend our contracts," he said. "I am hopeful that the discussions can carry on."

Veivers lost nine members of his first-team squad at the end of last season, including the spine of his team, and, because of a signing embargo, has been unable to add to sole recruit Andrew Dixon, the St Helens second rower.

However, former Great Britain centre Martin Gleeson has shaken hands on a two-year deal and Veivers has lined up more potential recruits to add to the 24 players currently on the books.

"I've still 10 on my wanted list," he added. "The (takeover) deal has not been finalised but I'm planning as if it's going to be done.

"If that's the case, I need to be ready to move forward to make this team a competitive one.

"The season is three weeks away and I think when the Wigan game comes around we'll have some new faces on board."

The RFL lifted their restrictions on the club so they could play Swinton in a friendly last Sunday and will do likewise to enable a trial game against Wigan to go ahead at the Salford City Stadium next Thursday.

By then, the club could be under new ownership and Veivers will be able to put the dark days firmly behind him.

"I said to Longy, it's never going to get tougher than what it is now," he said.

"I told him if you come through the other side, any other club you go to will be a walk in the park."

#202 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,124 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:54 PM

Veivers is impressing me, I think when the dust settles he will have players willing to run through brick walls for him.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#203 Pottsy

Pottsy
  • Coach
  • 3,533 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

I never lived in Salford, living in south Manchester (yuppie turf, full of people like Severus and Amber Avenger) for five years. The appetite for RL was never there - people were more likely to pledge allegiance to Arsenal than know what rugby league was.

While Salford may not have a city centre as such, it has a strong identity and Salfordians consider themselves as such. I worked with many, brilliant folk. Salford hav alwys reminded me of Warrington in the 90s and early 00s: everyone knows who they are and where they play, but they carry a 'losers' tag which attracts a knowing 'tut' even from those who should be their target support. A decent Salford side who made a cup final or went on a decent run would suddenly unearth a tonne of supporters who hadn't been near the Willows for donkey's years. Just like Warrington did in 2009.

The MAnchester idea is daft and always has been. I like DeadShotKeen, he posts with his heart and a lot of what he says is true. But often he reaches the wrong conclusion, and that is the case here. If anything, the best thing for Salford would be for a REAL Manchester club to exist as a competitor and stoke some local rivalry. I think Salford fans would say that local interest was higher when you had the likes of Swinton and Oldham near the top of the game. Salford have craved a derby for ages, and for a few years have treated Warrington as such. I'm sure Red Willow would say some of the best games in recent years for Solly have been turning us over, there was always a great atmosphere for those games.


It's refreshing to read an informed post from someone who actually knows the area and its people rather than the usual back-of-a-fag-packet received wisdom.

#204 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,124 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

It's refreshing to read an informed post from someone who actually knows the area and its people rather than the usual back-of-a-fag-packet received wisdom.


The problem with the idea of giving Salford a local rival is it doesn't create Salford anything other than one game a season which is a bumper crowd. They need to do something to increase their crowds overall, it may also attract the people from Manchester who go to Salford to just move over. Just thoughts.

What Salford need is to be seen as the representative club of Manchester and Salford, I believe that was the idea of being tagged as City Reds, they could eventually drop Salford, the problem though is a large part of Manchester is blue.

They need some neat market research to find out how they can get people in Manchester to identify with their highest profile rugby club in their area. That may return, clall the club Manchester, Manchester and Salford, Salford and Manchester or the Red and Blue Mancfordians, but until someone puts money into finding this stuff out any change is a straight gamble.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#205 Pottsy

Pottsy
  • Coach
  • 3,533 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:20 PM

The 'City' Reds came about partly at the behest of the council who value the club greatly and wanted to stress the fact that Salford is a city in its own right.

For the first season or two in super league we were just Salford Reds. The thing about us selling the Red Devils name to united is also a complete myth; I think they chose Reds because it wasn't as much of a mouthful.

Salford needs to run itself on professional lines first and foremost and then focus on reaching out to the whole of its catchment ( including Manchester). However, this notion of huge latent support in Manchester crying out for a club is yet another myth.

There are plenty of people who'll support well planned and promoted EVENTS at the right price (as the latest sellout at the velodrome last weekend demonstrated). The naming issue is a giant red herring.

If there really is a huge support base crying out for a team, perhaps Swinton should move to Manchester!

#206 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 18,124 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:28 PM

The 'City' Reds came about partly at the behest of the council who value the club greatly and wanted to stress the fact that Salford is a city in its own right.

For the first season or two in super league we were just Salford Reds. The thing about us selling the Red Devils name to united is also a complete myth; I think they chose Reds because it wasn't as much of a mouthful.

Salford needs to run itself on professional lines first and foremost and then focus on reaching out to the whole of its catchment ( including Manchester). However, this notion of huge latent support in Manchester crying out for a club is yet another myth.

There are plenty of people who'll support well planned and promoted EVENTS at the right price (as the latest sellout at the velodrome last weekend demonstrated). The naming issue is a giant red herring.

If there really is a huge support base crying out for a team, perhaps Swinton should move to Manchester!


I don't know if your comments where aimed at me, but I'll reply anyway.

This is why I said that Salford need to do some serious market research, to find out where support could come from and what people will identify with.

People confuse marketing with selling, when they say marketing what they mean is selling. Marketing finds out who you need to sell to. Selling brings in the targeted customers highlighted by your marketing.

Salford should be marketing Manchester to find out who, if anybody, they can sell to in Manchester and what changes they may need to make to sell themselves to a Manchester audience.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#207 DeadShotKeen

DeadShotKeen
  • Coach
  • 1,326 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:15 AM

So let's just be clear about what you're saying:

* there aren't enough fans or potential fans in Salford (population circa 230,000)
* It's impossible to get anyone from outside the city to Support Salford.
* if the club changes its name to Manchester fans will be clamouring to support them, even though they didn't follow other unfamiliar sports like Basketball etc.
* The club can afford to write off the majority of its 5000+ existing core supporters because you have a 'hunch' that there are more people out there just waiting to support a club called 'Manchester.'

Is that about the top and bottom of it?



So where are you all then?

And why is your post “things are rosey in this garden” in a thread about a failing club at death’s door that may be bailed out by a sole investor?

Edited by DeadShotKeen, 11 January 2013 - 09:16 AM.


#208 Kenilworth Tiger

Kenilworth Tiger
  • Coach
  • 8,964 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

It's such a shame that a club has to be on its knees before a wealthy backer who loves Rugby league comes trotting into town.
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

Kevin Ward - best player I have ever seen

Posted Image

The real Mick Gledhill is what you see on here, a Bradford fan ........, but deep down knows that Bradford are just not good enough to challenge the likes of Leeds & St Helens.


#209 Wanderer

Wanderer
  • Coach
  • 106 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:13 AM

slight tangent, but weren't Peel thinking about building a race-course somewhere in Salford at one point and is there a possible synergy here with the multi-millionaire race horse owner? Not sure if said project is dead but someone mentioned it to me before christmas so just thought I would air it. Cheers

#210 dogthebountyhunter

dogthebountyhunter
  • Coach
  • 436 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

One or two of you may have noticed that I am not in the bracket of person that likes Salford..... or even the bawbag that is Johnny Wilkinson. There is loads of reasons, but I can't be bothered going through those reasons again, or adding the ever expanding new reasons. Salford are horrible..... simples!!!

I will however defend to the hilt their name from the 'Manchester' brigade...... Salford is a city with it's own identity, connected to Manchester in border only. The city's history is as long and proud as any, anywhere, and to this end the city, my city should not lose any of our stock to the next door city....... even the ###### stock!!! They have already gained a football club from Trafford!!!!

They should re-market sure, but under the Salford name. Drop the silly 'City Reds' from their name and market themselves as Les Diables Rouges, but not as a silly moniker like City Reds was. They should just be 'Salford Rugby' there is no doubt who they are, and will never be confused with anybody else.

And for the silly statement by someone who said Swinton should move to Manchester........ Why? They are the original club in the City of Salford area!!!

Imagine if in 1895 they had internet forums.............rugby league would not exist!
 


#211 John Rhino

John Rhino
  • Coach
  • 2,504 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:03 PM

I don't know if your comments where aimed at me, but I'll reply anyway.

This is why I said that Salford need to do some serious market research, to find out where support could come from and what people will identify with.

People confuse marketing with selling, when they say marketing what they mean is selling. Marketing finds out who you need to sell to. Selling brings in the targeted customers highlighted by your marketing.

Salford should be marketing Manchester to find out who, if anybody, they can sell to in Manchester and what changes they may need to make to sell themselves to a Manchester audience.


Couldn't agree with you more Padge. I would however just tweek your definition of marketing a little. As you say most people think it's selling but not only is it finding out who you can sell to but once you have identified a target market it is tailoring the product to apeal to the most customers.
The game itself cannot be changed (fortunately!) but the name, mascots and the the whole of the match day experience in terms of ticketing, catering, entertainment etc, not forgetting transport, is to a large extent in the clubs hands.

So many owners also neglect the ambiance, or "feel good factor" call it what you will. Leeds rediscovered it from the ghastly early days of SL, so have Trinity and looks like Fev are doing the same. Bradford had it and lost it. Get a "buzz" going and the regulars will bring along their mates because they have someting to be proud of.

Derby City - proud to be flying the flag for Rugby League in the Midlands for over 24 years.
 

Visit:  http://www.derbycityrlfc.co.uk and see the progress being made.

 

Follow us on Twitter: @derbycityrlfc


#212 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 20,163 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:16 PM

You and Padge raise a good point. Simply put, marketing is creating the demand in the market while sales is fulfilling that demand. Sadly, too many clubs - or club chairmen - and indeed, too many other small businesses like them, can't tell their sales arses from their marketing elbows. There has been a vast improvement since 1995 but our game still has a long way to go.

#213 DeadShotKeen

DeadShotKeen
  • Coach
  • 1,326 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

Ultimately this is a debate that crops up on this forum a lot and until such time that Salford proves it can stand alone people like me will continue to argue that to specifically include Manchester in the brand name will strengthen the club’s reputation and outreach, both at home and overseas. I make no apologies for wanting to see rugby league blast out of its traditional heartland areas and into the bigger cities and this is a way that you can do it with little or no affront to history.

Basketball and ice hockey have failed to explode not only in Manchester but in most parts of the UK. The comparison is apples with pears. Rugby league is an indigenous sport with substantially more latent and untapped support across the North of England in particular. Rugby league to Mancunians would not be a hard sell but theirs is a big ego that needs massaging.

I remember watching GB vs Aus in the now defunct Sports Café in Manchester about 7 or 8 years ago. It was probably the biggest RL pub crowd I’ve ever seen and the roar that went up when Morley put a big hit on an Aussie was both deafening and thrilling. That was the moment I knew that RL could take off in Manchester given the right conditions. There’s no way those were all die hard RL fans. Some will just have been curious onlookers, many students or other non-Manc drifters, most probably Manc born footie lads waiting around for the later kick off but they were all gripped well beyond the occasional half-cocked patriotism you’ll get for England RU, the Olympics etc. and second only to England football. It was somehow ingrained. It’s the kind of captive pub audience the sport simply does not get in most big towns and for me it’s been wasted for too long.

As for a Manchester team as well as Salford, let’s not run before we can walk. I’d suggest that this could easily turn into a master/servant relationship very quickly (which would you invest a spare million in do you think?) and I see no reason why it shouldn’t be an inclusive relationship. There’s thinking outside the box and then there’s simply being pointlessly ambitious/idealistic. We need new start-up franchises only in genuinely RL-free areas that will whittle away support from RU and soccer, not our own perfectly viable clubs. One thing our game is not short of is Northern derbies. A powerful Salford & Manchester club could take its pick of hated neighbours.

#214 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,227 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:30 PM

Ultimately this is a debate that crops up on this forum a lot and until such time that Salford proves it can stand alone people like me will continue to argue that to specifically include Manchester in the brand name will strengthen the club’s reputation and outreach, both at home and overseas.


The general consensus to which I was about to agree was that Salford should indeed sell their club outside of Salford.

It may be 8,000 Salfordians who show their birth certificates to prove they are natives of the "city" so they can qualify for a season ticket, can be found such that the club can pay it's way. If they choose to do that it's their choice.

If it was me (which it's not) I'd think that there, a million people (corrections welcome) close enough to the M60 circular to sell the club to many of whom have kids who just may like to play RL to encourage and facilitate.

I'd sell the club to the lot of 'em. I think the name thing is irrelevant and would be a pointless risk trying it.

I think Salford has to try to be a regional club, I think their successful neighbours at Warrinton, Wigan and Saints cast their nets wide successfully despite the parochial names, so argue all you like but successful precedents are there.

Even tiny Sale can manage 10,000 with their name.

#215 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,478 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:59 PM

The general consensus to which I was about to agree was that Salford should indeed sell their club outside of Salford.

It may be 8,000 Salfordians who show their birth certificates to prove they are natives of the "city" so they can qualify for a season ticket, can be found such that the club can pay it's way. If they choose to do that it's their choice.

If it was me (which it's not) I'd think that there, a million people (corrections welcome) close enough to the M60 circular to sell the club to many of whom have kids who just may like to play RL to encourage and facilitate.

I'd sell the club to the lot of 'em. I think the name thing is irrelevant and would be a pointless risk trying it.

I think Salford has to try to be a regional club, I think their successful neighbours at Warrinton, Wigan and Saints cast their nets wide successfully despite the parochial names, so argue all you like but successful precedents are there.

Even tiny Sale can manage 10,000 with their name.


When Salford had the all star team with David Watkins. Keith Fielding, Colin Dixon, Charlton et al and were a top team playing at the Willows, they were pulling in top crowds. The people with the resoucres can look it up but my memory says they were easily averaging the 8,000 they need to be viable.

I was talking to someone in the investment banking area just recently about England RU games and the conversation drifted to RL and it emerged that he and his work related colleagues used to go to watch that Salford team regularly because of the tremendous entertainment value from that expansive exciting team and the whole experience. So it would seem that there was an appeal to the greater Manchester area and not merely dyed in the wool RL fans either from a good Salford team.

Fast forward to today and, in the new stadium, with new investment, if a similarly successful team could be put on the field, I am sure, using modern marketing and sales techniques, the Salford crowd should be easily be able to reach an 8.000 average and even 10,000 is not impossible, with or without rebranding as Manchester.

The traditional Salford fans should obviously be the bedrock of their support but the suburban, middle class types should also be targetted to become part of the Salford demographic corwd. I think, the recent past notwithstanding, that the Salford franchise under this new investor could become a resounding success.

#216 Red Willow

Red Willow
  • Coach
  • 4,706 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:18 PM

I don't think anyone doubts that Salford have a huge amount to do to attract new fans and investment. The point most are making is the Manchester name won't do anything on it's own, it isn't some magical wand that will increase the attraction.Changing the name will probably do more damage short term. Not being called Manchester hasn't held back Sale nor did being called Manchester help Manchester RU.

As others have said the name change to manchester is a red herring.

#217 dogthebountyhunter

dogthebountyhunter
  • Coach
  • 436 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:03 PM

I don't think anyone doubts that Salford have a huge amount to do to attract new fans and investment. The point most are making is the Manchester name won't do anything on it's own, it isn't some magical wand that will increase the attraction.Changing the name will probably do more damage short term. Not being called Manchester hasn't held back Sale nor did being called Manchester help Manchester RU.

As others have said the name change to manchester is a red herring.


Manchester RU are one of the oldest clubs in the world, and they are failing under the Manchester title. I cannot see that Salford changing their to Manchester can work.

I would suggest it is more wishful thinking than anything else to suggest it would work, Salford is a city, Salford is our city, and whether I like it of not, Salford RLFC are part of it. This in itself means they belong to us, just like Leeds Rhinos belong to Leeds, and Wigan Warriors belong to Wigan.

Imagine if in 1895 they had internet forums.............rugby league would not exist!
 


#218 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 20,163 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

The name is not really the issue, though, is it?

#219 dogthebountyhunter

dogthebountyhunter
  • Coach
  • 436 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

Well of course it isn't. but people keep suggesting changing the name to another City's name.... which will never work!!!

Imagine if in 1895 they had internet forums.............rugby league would not exist!
 


#220 Pottsy

Pottsy
  • Coach
  • 3,533 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

The name is not really the issue, though, is it?


No, it's not.

Unfortunately, one or two fantasists seem to hijack every Salford thread and peddle the same cod marketing/branding theories, with little to no understanding of the local area.

Salford needs to raise its game locally in all sorts of ways. It also needs to do its best to appeal to people in neighbouring areas such as Trafford and Manchester.

Rebranding will simply alienate existing fans and will attract far fewer supporters in their place.

As has been pointed out sensibly elsewhere on this thread, the name of the club hasn't prevented the likes of Arsenal, Green Bay Packers, Everton FC etc from developing massive support from well outside their titular hinterland.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users