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#341 Middleman

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

If we want to get away from mediocrity we need to analyse why the game is becoming mediocre and address that. This can be discussed on the Licensing/P & R thread.
However as far as Salford go having a rich man at the helm may help them rise above the mediocrity they have delivered SL for years (just a fact not a dig). I hope he does that not by simply outbidding currently more vibrant clubs for their players, but re-builds the game around the M60.
He's not even on board yet and I want him to rescue RL in and around Manchester/Salford. A tad unfair, but we won't get away from mediocrity just by inflating wages.


I think if the Deal goes ( Pray God it will happen ) through this season will be about scrabbling for what experienced & Quality players he can lay his hands on - But in his interviews he briefly discussed the ' policy of buying in internationals ' as unsustainable and talked about investing in long term development to produce local stars and a winning culture- that's where the tag line about creating a Dynasty came from . This is where the root of the club having a home & the effort to buy into the Stadium , He wants to build a state of the art gym , training facility and even mentioned building on site accomodation for development players to stay .In the past few years , Alan Hunte hasn't even had money to give his kids kit, his head must be spinning.
Bizarrely due the Dr Koukash's experience is in horse racing , he buys horses for relatively small money ( in racing terms ) and trains them to win. he understands that ethic and will want to transfer it to his new challenge , except it may be RL bloodstock not hoofed.

On a side note I bet Chris Hamiltons grin is getting wider by the day- When Oldham announced a link up with Salford pre Xmas there were alot of witty comments about the Roughyeds getting the runt of the SL litter and little benefit from the arrangement.

Edited by Middleman, 21 January 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#342 John Rhino

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

build cost was 18 Million ( 15 Million for the Lego , 3 Million for the road(s) ) A bit more than a 3-bed condo in Hyde Park Corner.
http://www.buckingha...ity_stadium.pdf[/url

He's also after a stake in the remaining retail development land around it. again to provide future income outside of rugby activities.
[url="http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1594094_peel-group-and-salford-council-to-build-new-retail-and-leisure-complex-close-to-trafford-centre"]http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1594094_peel-group-and-salford-council-to-build-new-retail-and-leisure-complex-close-to-trafford-centre


Makes sense, i believe property development is one of his strengths.
If i were the council id take this as a vote of confidence in the viability of the plans.

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#343 MrPosh

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:33 PM

That's great, but I find it difficult to have a decent conversation about the game in Manchester and Preston.


Perhaps if you tried being more positive and realistic, you might have a better chance.
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#344 Padge

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

That's great, but I find it difficult to have a decent conversation about the game in Manchester and Preston.

Maybe you should improve your conversational skills?

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#345 Finn

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:45 AM

Perhaps if you tried being more positive and realistic, you might have a better chance.


Been there done that, but this game can wear your positivity down after several decades.

#346 kioli

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:10 AM

build cost was 18 Million ( 15 Million for the Lego , 3 Million for the road(s) ) A bit more than a 3-bed condo in Hyde Park Corner.
http://www.buckingha...ity_stadium.pdf

the story is he's offered less .. and the whole deal is wrapped up in it .

He's also after a stake in the remaining retail development land around it. again to provide future income outside of rugby activities.
http://menmedia.co.u...trafford-centre


Whoa stadiums are cheap in the UK

#347 The Parksider

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:32 AM

I think if the Deal goes ( Pray God it will happen ) through this season will be about scrabbling for what experienced & Quality players he can lay his hands on - But in his interviews he briefly discussed the ' policy of buying in internationals ' as unsustainable and talked about investing in long term development to produce local stars and a winning culture- that's where the tag line about creating a Dynasty came from . This is where the root of the club having a home & the effort to buy into the Stadium , He wants to build a state of the art gym , training facility and even mentioned building on site accomodation for development players to stay .In the past few years.

Bizarrely due the Dr Koukash's experience is in horse racing , he buys horses for relatively small money ( in racing terms ) and trains them to win. he understands that ethic and will want to transfer it to his new challenge , except it may be RL bloodstock not hoofed.On a side note I bet Chris Hamiltons grin is getting wider by the day.


The policy of buying in Internationals is not unsustainable, it’s more like impossible. They have their own cosy cup winning nests and the good Doctor has little he can offer beyond what they already get. Good old salary cap and quality player shortages.
I do hope he is not floating any analogies with horse racing. Especially the “breeding” element of creating winners! The idea of accommodation for budding young stars seems to indicate he knows he may have to cast his scouting net wide to find the “bloodstock” . Even on his own doorstep where a couple of big amateur clubs produce the juniors, he’ll have to go some to get them sign for him and not the big four.

If it was me I’d want to tie in not just at Oldham but Swinton (that’s in Salford isn’t it) and Rochdale too. I’d be chasing the few quality amateur clubs around the M60 and looking to give smaller clubs with dreams of productive junior sections like Bury and Mancunians all the help and money possible to expand the junior game around the M60, promoting it in the schools and ensuring serious kids have a club to go to. Keep the Salford name but make it a greater Manchester club.

We shall see what happens but I fear the big boys won’t allow the Doctor to ring fence his stable territory. Warrington smashed into the top four with big name imports but that’s off the agenda too. I can hope and the hope is above, I can fear and the fear is in a few years time the Doc will only leave the hospitality of the matchday boardroom once a year to sign a subsidy cheque to keep the horse on four legs rather than the three such as Castleford are running on.

This last year has been from the depths of administration depression to the cheery heights of a string of new rich men knocking on the owners entrance to the SL racecourse. They are here to rebuild their chosen clubs in the image of the Wigans and Leeds of this world. It’s a very very long course. I hope they stay it, and don’t pull up.

#348 JohnM

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:56 AM

Been there done that, but this game can wear your positivity down after several decades.


Several decades is not that bad. This forum can achieve that in just one topic.

Edited by JohnM, 22 January 2013 - 08:56 AM.


#349 TwoBlues

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:53 PM

We shall see what happens but I fear the big boys won’t allow the Doctor to ring fence his stable territory. Warrington smashed into the top four with big name imports but that’s off the agenda too. I can hope and the hope is above, I can fear and the fear is in a few years time the Doc will only leave the hospitality of the matchday boardroom once a year to sign a subsidy cheque to keep the horse on four legs rather than the three such as Castleford are running on.

This last year has been from the depths of administration depression to the cheery heights of a string of new rich men knocking on the owners entrance to the SL racecourse. They are here to rebuild their chosen clubs in the image of the Wigans and Leeds of this world. It’s a very very long course. I hope they stay it, and don’t pull up.

I think JW,at Salford, looked at Warrington,with envy,at how they maximised their revenue streams from their stadium.This,if it wasn't already,was/has been taken onboard by Dr Koukash.
I would like to think that another lesson is learned from Warrington - that is their arrival at their new stadium was 2004,as was the arrival of Simon Moran,and they took until 2009 to lift silverware and are now producing the benefits of a good youth system.
I sincerely hope Salford do not rush things.( Should the takeover go ahead,of course ) :)

#350 Dave T

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

I think JW,at Salford, looked at Warrington,with envy,at how they maximised their revenue streams from their stadium.This,if it wasn't already,was/has been taken onboard by Dr Koukash.
I would like to think that another lesson is learned from Warrington - that is their arrival at their new stadium was 2004,as was the arrival of Simon Moran,and they took until 2009 to lift silverware and are now producing the benefits of a good youth system.
I sincerely hope Salford do not rush things.( Should the takeover go ahead,of course ) :)

This is a decent article about Moran - he was originally involved in Warrington Wolves back in 1998, and became the major shareholder in 2004.

I think this highlights what a good 'sugar daddy' can do. Often the term is used negatively, but as long as the right things are invested in then that is the important things. If there is anything left for a few luxuries, then great, but get the basics right first.

#351 John Rhino

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

All gone quiet on the news front for a deal the good doctor hoped would be done by Monday.

I bet a pound to a penny Sale stick their noses in at the last minute and it takes a lot longer than this week. Hope he sticks with it.

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#352 The Parksider

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

John Rhino,

I sense an idea that the doctor needs a really good deal if he is to have the resources and leeway to make something out of Salford against tough local opposition. It may take some time, I just hope it happens!

Edited by The Parksider, 22 January 2013 - 06:09 PM.


#353 Pottsy

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:34 PM

The policy of buying in Internationals is not unsustainable, it’s more like impossible. They have their own cosy cup winning nests and the good Doctor has little he can offer beyond what they already get. Good old salary cap and quality player shortages.
I do hope he is not floating any analogies with horse racing. Especially the “breeding” element of creating winners! The idea of accommodation for budding young stars seems to indicate he knows he may have to cast his scouting net wide to find the “bloodstock” . Even on his own doorstep where a couple of big amateur clubs produce the juniors, he’ll have to go some to get them sign for him and not the big four.

If it was me I’d want to tie in not just at Oldham but Swinton (that’s in Salford isn’t it) and Rochdale too. I’d be chasing the few quality amateur clubs around the M60 and looking to give smaller clubs with dreams of productive junior sections like Bury and Mancunians all the help and money possible to expand the junior game around the M60, promoting it in the schools and ensuring serious kids have a club to go to. Keep the Salford name but make it a greater Manchester club.


This is one of your better posts, Parky.

The only minor point I'd disagree on is the need to 'tie-in' neighbouring pro clubs; it's more a case of tying in the grass roots clubs around the M60 (we've done this already with Swinton's one remaining amateur club).

I agree that Dr K should support clubs in places such as Bury and Manchester, although the reality is that occasionally this isn't possible for reasons that are beyond the pro club's control.

#354 OMEGA

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

Where would it leave Salford if this fell through?

#355 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

So we've got rich backers at most clubs, let's get rid of the salary cap and have some fun with the game.


Having rich backers at most clubs is what is needed to make the salary cap work properly. One of the flaws with the cap is that many clubs have been spending way below the cap and so can't afford to pay the wages top quality players demand. The cap is one reason why Wigan have off-loaded Hock to Widnes. In the old days Wigan would have taught Hock a lesson by letting him rot on the sidelines, but now they need to off-load him to free up salary cap, as they won't be playing him, and so need a replacement, and as Widnes have a rich backer they can afford the wages Hock demands.

The very best players will always gravitate to the top clubs at the time, but the salary cap allows the lesser clubs to pick up some of the next tier of players, The ones who can be the star at a club like Wakey or Cas, rather than just one of the starting 13 at a club like Wigan or Leeds.

#356 Segovia Carpet

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:43 PM

Where would it leave Salford if this fell through?


Finito

#357 Segovia Carpet

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

All gone quiet on the news front for a deal the good doctor hoped would be done by Monday.

I bet a pound to a penny Sale stick their noses in at the last minute and it takes a lot longer than this week. Hope he sticks with it.


John the deal does not concern Sale. I think it will take until Feb 1st before its completed to the Doctors satisfaction. Both sides will be driving a hard bargain though I think the Council will bow out with the Doctor taking up their share in a Joint Venture with Peel.

#358 The Parksider

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:00 PM

John the deal does not concern Sale. I think it will take until Feb 1st before its completed to the Doctors satisfaction. Both sides will be driving a hard bargain though I think the Council will bow out with the Doctor taking up their share in a Joint Venture with Peel.


Monsieur Le Carpet.....

Not sure about "Finito" its decades since northern RL club enthusiasts were prepared to stand by and let an established club go.

How do you see the negotiation?

Is it the case that the stadium/peel/salford council are under pressure of various sorts to accept a deal both morally and financially.?

#359 The Parksider

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:05 PM

Having rich backers at most clubs is what is needed to make the salary cap work properly. One of the flaws with the cap is that many clubs have been spending way below the cap and so can't afford to pay the wages top quality players demand. The cap is one reason why Wigan have off-loaded Hock to Widnes. In the old days Wigan would have taught Hock a lesson by letting him rot on the sidelines, but now they need to off-load him to free up salary cap, as they won't be playing him, and so need a replacement, and as Widnes have a rich backer they can afford the wages Hock demands.

The very best players will always gravitate to the top clubs at the time, but the salary cap allows the lesser clubs to pick up some of the next tier of players, The ones who can be the star at a club like Wakey or Cas, rather than just one of the starting 13 at a club like Wigan or Leeds.


Great post. We need enough quality players for there to be a "next tier" of them. To me what will make or break the game is developing players more so than money.

#360 Pottsy

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

Where would it leave Salford if this fell through?


Championship One.




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