472 replies to this topic

[The Parksider]

Having rich backers at most clubs is what is needed to make the salary cap work properly. One of the flaws with the cap is that many clubs have been spending way below the cap and so can't afford to pay the wages top quality players demand. The cap is one reason why Wigan have off-loaded Hock to Widnes. In the old days Wigan would have taught Hock a lesson by letting him rot on the sidelines, but now they need to off-load him to free up salary cap, as they won't be playing him, and so need a replacement, and as Widnes have a rich backer they can afford the wages Hock demands.

The very best players will always gravitate to the top clubs at the time, but the salary cap allows the lesser clubs to pick up some of the next tier of players, The ones who can be the star at a club like Wakey or Cas, rather than just one of the starting 13 at a club like Wigan or Leeds.

Great post. We need enough quality players for there to be a "next tier" of them. To me what will make or break the game is developing players more so than money.

[Pottsy]

Where would it leave Salford if this fell through?

Championship One.

[The Parksider]

I think JW,at Salford, looked at Warrington,with envy,at how they maximised their revenue streams from their stadium.This,if it wasn't already,was/has been taken onboard by Dr Koukash.
I would like to think that another lesson is learned from Warrington - that is their arrival at their new stadium was 2004,as was the arrival of Simon Moran,and they took until 2009 to lift silverware and are now producing the benefits of a good youth system.
I sincerely hope Salford do not rush things.( Should the takeover go ahead,of course )

All points taken.......

The Warrington analogy is a cracker. In 1971 & 1972 Wigan and Leeds ruled the roost before Salford under Snape and Wire under Murphy as their driving forces (hey I forget the Wire chairman's name - anybody wanna show their age??) led their teams to be top dogs 1973 and 1974.

Wires "second coming" was on the back of a new stadium and a new backer, and of course we have a near identical situation at Salford, only the backer is a bit late and the club have suffered an on field disappointment that hasn't created any impetus for the fans who showed themselves at the closure of the Willows to come on board.

So can Mr. Koukash emulate Mr. Moran???

My fear and resultant negativity is that there are several things Dr. K has to emulate.

1. A talisman playmaker being already in place to build a team around.
2. Three CLASS GB forwards being prepared to come on board
3. Five quality overseas players to be available to sign on
4. Perhaps the northern hemisphere's best coach to also come on board

Virtual Ceegar to anyone who can manage to name the ten names I am thinking about??

Million dollar jackpot to anyone who can name a similar 10 available to the good Doctor....

On the subject of Wires good youth system, Superleague contains as many top professionals from Warrington as there are from Salford/Manchester. The comparison was a good one but disappoints anyway.

Wires development system owes a lot to its scouts who have scoured Wales and Cumbria. One hopes Warrington Junior RL can become the force Wigan. Leeds and Saints are.

Edited by The Parksider, 22 January 2013 - 10:27 PM.

[John Rhino]

John the deal does not concern Sale. I think it will take until Feb 1st before its completed to the Doctors satisfaction. Both sides will be driving a hard bargain though I think the Council will bow out with the Doctor taking up their share in a Joint Venture with Peel.

I beg to differ.
Sale have a contract with the current owners. If the stadium is sold that contract ceases and they will have to negotiate a new one.

Also they have a very rich owner who let Salford do all the work and then moved in with them. If income streams are being bought and sold they inevitably will want a piece of the action.
Can you see Kennedy standing by and just becoming an income stream? What if Kennedy puts in a better offer for the stadium?

Long way to go yet in my opinion but i sincerely hope it all goes well.

[foozler]

I beg to differ.

Can you see Kennedy standing by and just becoming an income stream? What if Kennedy puts in a better offer for the stadium?

Long way to go yet in my opinion but i sincerely hope it all goes well.

I suspect you are right to think this will probably go down to the wire and I guess it depends on how much more of his fortune he wants to invest, especially with his club odds on to be relegated into a division where there is no guarantee of being able to bounce straight back up.

[hindle xiii]

It should be ok, doctors always keep you waiting.

[cookey]

For goodness sake J.Rhino,Sale don't have a Contract with the current 'owners',they have a lease from the freeholders,whoever they happen to be.If a freeholder wishes to sell his interest to a third party,it has absolutely nothing to do with a tenant.If you are a tenant of a house and your freeholder decides to sell his interest to someone else,you can't just pop up and say I don't like that person! Please don't write such ludicrous comments.

If you actually look on the Sale Messageboard,their fans are actually quite pro the deal - as they see mutual benefits for Salford and Sale.They also tend to be intelligent and informed postings.

[Segovia Carpet]

Monsieur Le Carpet.....

Not sure about "Finito" its decades since northern RL club enthusiasts were prepared to stand by and let an established club go.

How do you see the negotiation?

Is it the case that the stadium/peel/salford council are under pressure of various sorts to accept a deal both morally and financially.?

Morning Le Parquet,

Can.t see much interest in watching Salford v Oxford at Moor Lane - nice tidy gtound of Salford City FC.

I just think Peel will not budge an inch. The Council is the weak partner and they need cash so the Doctor will struggle to get control of the Freehold solely in my opinion as Peel STILL need Council help in their vision of Port Salford.

[John Rhino]

For goodness sake J.Rhino,Sale don't have a Contract with the current 'owners',they have a lease from the freeholders,whoever they happen to be.If a freeholder wishes to sell his interest to a third party,it has absolutely nothing to do with a tenant.If you are a tenant of a house and your freeholder decides to sell his interest to someone else,you can't just pop up and say I don't like that person! Please don't write such ludicrous comments.

If you actually look on the Sale Messageboard,their fans are actually quite pro the deal - as they see mutual benefits for Salford and Sale.They also tend to be intelligent and informed postings.

They may also have a clause that gives them first refusal if the ground is up for sale.

All I am saying is that this is much more complicated than a lot of people on here think. And I also think Sale will have some input somewhere along the line.

Were Salford also not tenants? There are two tenants and to use your analogy the freeholder is selling the freehold to (potentially) one of the tenants. If you lived in the same house as me and were a millionaire, and I was buying the freehold would you not think "I could do that"

Please don't denigate a poster who has a view and a valid prediction (which I would be delighted if it turns out not to be true) as ludicrous.

I don't look at the Sale website but doubt they are any better informed than this board. :-)

Edited by John Rhino, 23 January 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[cookey]

Maybe it's because I spend my life buying and selling commercial freeholds and assigning leases on behalf of tenants,that I find your comments ludicrous.

[Red Willow]

I don't think Kennedy sees his future with Sale, if he got the chance to own Rangers he would disappear. There are rumblings of Sale returning to Stockport if relegated. Kennedy has publically stated that he wants Sale to be self sustaining and I don't think he wants to spend the money (millions?) to buy the stadium.

Koukash has other motives with the stadium part of which is the land development around the stadium. Property is his business.

As for Parky's comments about Salford build a team to rival Warrington, your post suggests you expect this to happen in 1 season. The overseas players Warrington signed took a number of seasons to settle with King being an example.

The priority for the new board is to stop the rot, stop loyal fans from drifting away from the game. This is a long term project and maybe by that time Fages will be the halfback to build a team around.

[Dave T]

As for Parky's comments about Salford build a team to rival Warrington, your post suggests you expect this to happen in 1 season. The overseas players Warrington signed took a number of seasons to settle with King being an example.

The priority for the new board is to stop the rot, stop loyal fans from drifting away from the game. This is a long term project and maybe by that time Fages will be the halfback to build a team around.

To be fair, I don't think Parky's point about Warrington was that accurate.

In our first season in the new stadium our overseas contingent were Nat Wood, Danny Lima, Chris Leikvoll, Brent Grose, Graham Appo (I think that's them all).

In subsequent years we upped the quality of our recruitment (through Moran's investment and a massive increase in crowds), but this went for both British and overseas players. The signing of Andrew Johns was a marker, and then the signing of the excellent Matt King, Monaghan and Rauhihi were boosts, but this was after the club had demonstrated that it could get the crowds in to support this kind of investment.

There wasn't massive levels of investment in the team in advance of any increase in the crowds. It was done in a much more gradual way.

[Red Willow]

Dave

Any club hoping to challenge has to do this over a period. From the Press Conf it seems the academy will be a priority plus training facilities for all ages. He is saying all the right things, just need the deal to be signed.

Even if it all goes wrong in a few years nothing can be as bad as we are at present.

[Dave T]

Dave

Any club hoping to challenge has to do this over a period. From the Press Conf it seems the academy will be a priority plus training facilities for all ages. He is saying all the right things, just need the deal to be signed.

Even if it all goes wrong in a few years nothing can be as bad as we are at present.

Indeed - he is very impressive by what he is saying, let's hope he can be half as impressive in action.

Let's be honest, 12 years ago I wasn't sure I would have a club to support never mind to be as strong as we are now. Who know's what is round the corner for Salford.

[The Parksider]

I find your comments ludicrous.

I'm sure we all welcome expert corrections, maybe not brickbats such as that.

[The Parksider]

To be fair, I don't think Parky's point about Warrington was that accurate.

There wasn't massive levels of investment in the team in advance of any increase in the crowds. It was done in a much more gradual way.

I welcome your correction with an open mind and appreciative heart!!

Certainly from 2004 to 2009 there was a gradual rise in the teams fortunes until they won the cup which basically was getting to where they wanted to get to.

Salford will aim to emulate that for sure.

As a realist I was basically wondering if they can emulate it given the drop in quality overseas player availability, and the need to attract (moreso because of this) top british stars.

Hock was the first available this year, but he's gone to Widnes.

Salford can do it, I hope they do do it, but they may be doing it in more difficult recruitment conditions against opposition Warrington may not have had for peoples signatures.

[Dave T]

As a realist I was basically wondering if they can emulate it given the drop in quality overseas player availability, and the need to attract (moreso because of this) top british stars.

Hock was the first available this year, but he's gone to Widnes.

Salford can do it, I hope they do do it, but they may be doing it in more difficult recruitment conditions against opposition Warrington may not have had for peoples signatures.

Yep - can't disagree with any of that. I do think it will be much more difficult, as there are just fewer signings knocking around altogether.

The thing is if they are prepared to flex their muscle short term then it can have some long term gains in terms of showing they mean business - Warrington did this with Gleeson and Johns.
Salford may have been in a position to keep Moon, they could have been in for Hock and there will always be one or two other class players knocking around.

Some of Warrington's better signings in the last few years have been Chris Bridge, Chris Hill and Simon Grix - maybe these are the kind of players that Salford need to invest in.

Edited by Dave T, 23 January 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[hindle xiii]

I'm hearing the collective are chomping at the bit and are lining up at the starting gate very soon, and the announcement may be good to soft in places.

[Middleman]

All points taken.......

The Warrington analogy is a cracker. In 1971 & 1972 Wigan and Leeds ruled the roost before Salford under Snape and Wire under Murphy as their driving forces (hey I forget the Wire chairman's name - anybody wanna show their age??) led their teams to be top dogs 1973 and 1974.

Wires "second coming" was on the back of a new stadium and a new backer, and of course we have a near identical situation at Salford, only the backer is a bit late and the club have suffered an on field disappointment that hasn't created any impetus for the fans who showed themselves at the closure of the Willows to come on board.

So can Mr. Koukash emulate Mr. Moran???

My fear and resultant negativity is that there are several things Dr. K has to emulate.

1. A talisman playmaker being already in place to build a team around. -
2. Three CLASS GB forwards being prepared to come on board -
3. Five quality overseas players to be available to sign on -
4. Perhaps the northern hemisphere's best coach to also come on board -

Virtual Ceegar to anyone who can manage to name the ten names I am thinking about??

Million dollar jackpot to anyone who can name a similar 10 available to the good Doctor....

On the subject of Wires good youth system, Superleague contains as many top professionals from Warrington as there are from Salford/Manchester. The comparison was a good one but disappoints anyway.

Wires development system owes a lot to its scouts who have scoured Wales and Cumbria. One hopes Warrington Junior RL can become the force Wigan. Leeds and Saints are.

1. A talisman playmaker being already in place to build a team around. - Lee Briers
2. Three CLASS GB forwards being prepared to come on board - Morley - Carvell- Westwood
3. Five quality overseas players to be available to sign on - King - Hodgson- Monaghan - Monaghan -Anderson L.
4. Perhaps the northern hemisphere's best coach to also come on board - Paul Cullen .....sorry Smith.

don't discount the power to attract the better up-and-coming UK talent - Atkins -Myler-Ratchford-Hill

[TwoBlues]

don't discount the power to attract the better up-and-coming UK talent - Atkins -Myler-Ratchford-Hill

and those at Wigan and St Helens were Messrs.Veivers and Long have a little influence.