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#61 41hound

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

If you are a potential investor attending today's game and only 1800 people turn up, you are not likely to be keen to part with your hard-earned money any time soon. My stance on this is the same as it was with Bradford, we need to stop propping up failing entity's and let them start again from the bottom of the pyramid.

Give the hardworking Championship clubs a chance to prove what they can do in the top-tier.


I agree with most of what you have written. Our club has hit rock bottom financially. 1800 is the sort of crowd we get for "normal" pre-season friendlies, so bearing in mind the "hopefully it will be ok" approach of our management it is not suprising! <_<

Anyway by lunchtime today you may have your wish ...

#62 Bulliac

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:45 AM

The alternative is to hold back the haves and stifle the game to hold them back to the level of the have nots.

We now have a situation where a club that was a have not have faught long and hard to join the haves, they may or may not have got there, but they know what they have to do and are doing their best to do it.

Other clubs who want to join the SL club should take note.

Let's force clubs to catch up and not pull back others down to 1960's level's


Not sure that's exactly the situation , Padge..

There are two points which are the crux of the problem. Firstly, you can't force clubs to, as you put it, "catch up". The difference between the clubs is, at a base level, merely money and if the finance isn't availble then no amount of wishing and hoping or even cajoling and issuing edicts from Red Hall is going to change the situation.

The second point is just as intractable as the first, and that is that there are insufficient 'haves' to form a league of their own so they are dependent on the 'have nots' to make up the numbers. It is a symbiotic relationship and as such the clubs live or die together with all clubs having to support each other.
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#63 Dave T

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

What am I supposed to think?

Apologies - I should have stated that I didn't bring Warrington into the conversation, Southstand Loiner did. I don't think there was any real reason to bring Warrington into it simply because he was responding to a Wire fan, but then you could argue it was relevant as it is an argument that the 1800 was a decent crowd. That is the reason I responded to it.

However, the reference to Warrington's crowds 27 years ago had no relevance at all to the discussion.

#64 Derwent

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

The good news - Winding Up petition adjourned until 4th February after Salford presented evidence of potential new investment

The bad news - HMRC confirmed they have joined the petition and are claiming a sum in the region of £300k

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#65 Dave T

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

The good news - Winding Up petition adjourned until 4th February after Salford presented evidence of potential new investment

The bad news - HMRC confirmed they have joined the petition and are claiming a sum in the region of £300k

Weren't HMRC already on this?

I thought it was them and the two players?

#66 Derwent

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

Weren't HMRC already on this?

I thought it was them and the two players?


No, HMRC had declared an interest but had not formally joined the WUP until today. HMRC being officially involved makes it a whole different scenario now and prevents Salford from using other loopholes to try and dismiss the petition, which they may have been able to do if it was only the former employees.

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#67 JohnM

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:17 PM

might it also mean HM R and C think they have a chance of getting their (our?) money?

#68 The Parksider

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

Not sure that's exactly the situation , Padge..

There are two points which are the crux of the problem. Firstly, you can't force clubs to, as you put it, "catch up". The difference between the clubs is, at a base level, merely money and if the finance isn't availble then no amount of wishing and hoping or even cajoling and issuing edicts from Red Hall is going to change the situation.

The second point is just as intractable as the first, and that is that there are insufficient 'haves' to form a league of their own so they are dependent on the 'have nots' to make up the numbers. It is a symbiotic relationship and as such the clubs live or die together with all clubs having to support each other.


Top post

Bang on the button for me. The championship isn’t anywhere where you can “catch up” by putting some seats in, running a marketing team, getting some kids to form an “academy” and put out a lot of boring hot air P & R about how wonderful you are. That isn’t catching up for my money.

And even that costs money clubs maybe don’t have. If they do have real money then they can organise the cosmetic stuff before the REAL cost of catching up comes along and that is in Superleague where you have to build a sustainable competitive team and grow crowds.

Even in SL what’s the record there? How are Salford doing, what progress have Widnes made? London?? Castleford? Bradford? Wakefield? HKR? even Huddersfield??? these are also have not’s as you indicate along with the have not’s of Sheffield, Leigh, Fax and Featherstone.

So there’s no point really in franchises and telling clubs to know their place. The economic conditions and the lack of resources in the game dictate if no radical changes are made (if any are possible) then a cabal of have’s have “it made” and the rest may as well entertain us via P & R in a competition straddling the top two divisions to see who can be the best of the extensive number of useless also rans, above the given ups.

My bet is all league placings below the real Superleague of erm six clubs will be in direct relation to wallet sizes. Daveys wallet is currently in the lead will Nahaboos wallet catch him on the rails?

Edited by The Parksider, 07 January 2013 - 12:27 PM.


#69 Derwent

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

might it also mean HM R and C think they have a chance of getting their (our?) money?


Who knows the mysterious workings of HMRC ? It probably means one of two things :-

1. They think some money is coming into the club and are making sure they are paid forthwith as soon as that happens

Or

2. They believe there is no prospect of payment and are taking action to prevent the accrual of any further amounts due to HMRC

Unfortunately HMRC do not have a clear policy on this and it is very much at the whim of the local regional tax inspector.

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#70 41hound

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

Official release from the club ; http://www.reds.co.u...reds-court-date - or see below;

Official Club Statement
Salford City Reds can confirm that the result of this morning’s court hearing was a further adjournment until Monday 4th February 2013.
This additional time has been granted following careful consideration of the current position regarding new investment into the business.
All concerned parties agreed that there was a real possibility that a positive conclusion could be reached and that this would be preferable to the execution of the lodged winding up petition against Salford Football Club 1914 Ltd.

Reds Chairman John Wilkinson said:

“Everyone is working every available hour to ensure that the on-going negotiations progress forward into an outcome that secures the future success of the Salford Rugby League Club. We appreciate what a stressful time this is for staff, players and supporters and thank you all for your patience and understanding.

“What today’s ruling provides is the time needed to secure the investment and we are grateful for the opportunity to do so.
One thing is foremost in our minds - Salford’s rugby club must continue for the fans of today to enjoy and for the generations of fans to come.”
The club will endeavour to inform all stakeholders of progress at the earliest opportunity.

Salford City Reds would also like to thank all fans and sponsors who attended yesterday’s pre-season friendly, your support for both clubs was wonderful and was very much appreciated.

#71 41hound

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

There is supposed to be a "big" meeting between the club and "investors" at some secret location this afternoon .... don't hold your breath. :rolleyes:

#72 roughyedspud

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

who's gonna invest in a club thats massively in debt...when they could put it up for nothing after it goes pop???

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#73 intheshed

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

who's gonna invest in a club thats massively in debt...when they could put it up for nothing after it goes pop???


I guess that depends on how confident you are that a post 'pop' club would still be in SL.

#74 Red Willow

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

HMRC do have a National policy especially where larger/higher profile companies are involved. They don't let some local bod decide whether to chase or not.

They don't mess around. The petitions are usually present in High Court as in this case.

Our game V Wigan could be a first for SL. Play one game then vanish from SL.

Hope this doesn't drag on.

#75 Padge

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:29 PM

Top post

Bang on the button for me. The championship isn’t anywhere where you can “catch up” by putting some seats in, running a marketing team, getting some kids to form an “academy” and put out a lot of boring hot air P & R about how wonderful you are. That isn’t catching up for my money.

And even that costs money clubs maybe don’t have. If they do have real money then they can organise the cosmetic stuff before the REAL cost of catching up comes along and that is in Superleague where you have to build a sustainable competitive team and grow crowds.

Even in SL what’s the record there? How are Salford doing, what progress have Widnes made? London?? Castleford? Bradford? Wakefield? HKR? even Huddersfield??? these are also have not’s as you indicate along with the have not’s of Sheffield, Leigh, Fax and Featherstone.

So there’s no point really in franchises and telling clubs to know their place. The economic conditions and the lack of resources in the game dictate if no radical changes are made (if any are possible) then a cabal of have’s have “it made” and the rest may as well entertain us via P & R in a competition straddling the top two divisions to see who can be the best of the extensive number of useless also rans, above the given ups.

My bet is all league placings below the real Superleague of erm six clubs will be in direct relation to wallet sizes. Daveys wallet is currently in the lead will Nahaboos wallet catch him on the rails?


Several clubs in the Championship are progressing nicely, Leigh have a new stadium, Halifax have a very credible stadium now its been completed, Fev have been playing catch up all around. Clubs are beginning to realise that they need to have certain things in place and are concentrating on acheiving what is necessary off field.

You can build a club in the Championship that is fit for SL, what you won't do there is build a team for SL. The three year license gives clubs who are promoted the opportunity to build a competitive team WHEN they get into SL and thus they do not have to attempt it before hand.

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#76 Futtocks

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:37 PM

The good news - Winding Up petition adjourned until 4th February after Salford presented evidence of potential new investment


Let's hope this wasn't one of their revenue streams. ;)

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#77 41hound

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:47 PM

who's gonna invest in a club thats massively in debt...when they could put it up for nothing after it goes pop???


as I said - dont hold your breath :lol:

#78 Viking Warrior

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:49 PM

I guess that depends on how confident you are that a post 'pop' club would still be in SL.

I guess that depends on how confident you are that a post 'pop' club would still be in SL.

I guess that depends on how confident you are that a post 'pop' club would still be in SL.


like bradford and wakefield did??
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#79 eclecticsheep

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:51 PM

It remains to be seen whether, if salford do survive, they will be able to field a competetive side, getting smashed every week isnt going to bring back bewildered fans nor pack the Barton Stadium when the acute access/egress traffic snarl up is also added to the mix, i can see why every effort is being expended by Wilky to keep his baby in Superleague because he knows full well what happened to Salfords Feeder Team when the trap door opened and Hamilton got his hands on the yeds...Life is too short!

#80 burke

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:17 PM

The good news for Salford is that most of the debt is ` flexible `. The directors have agreed to write of their loans which is good, the Council are owed 1.5 million so the last thing they want is for the club to go into admin, I would think that the council would be prepared to accept terms where the debt remains on the books but the repayment terms will be improved say payable over 25 years. The owners of the stadium will agree improved terms for Salford.
So unlike Bradford it may well be that new investors can be found without the club going into admin. It must depend on how much is owed elsewhere. We know that Pattern on Anderson want £ 60,000.00 and HMRC are owed £ 300,000.00. If everyone else it paid up then it could work.




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