343 replies to this topic

[AndyCapp]

Folks, 1jordy has an opinion and is putting it across well in my opinion. Can we not just agree to,disagree?

FWIW I'm in the Sinfield doesn't deserve it camp but can completely understand people's reasons for supporting his award.

I sometimes think people re deliberately obtuse when discussing things with Aussies because they're Aussies.

Fair post I think,
1jordy has stated he is a young man and what his views are, they may not sit well with some but they make a forum what it is, different view points from posters with different outlooks should not be a bad thing.

I would still like to know who the Judges are? is there a reason why they cannot be named?
If an award is to be prestigious across the Rugby League Code World Wide, then surely knowing the Criteria for winning and who the Judges are defines the status of the Award.

I was always under the impression it was awarded to the best player from a Test series, that criteria is not as easy as it was two decades ago as the game has died to some extent at Test level.

If that is the criteria then surely the best man from number one in the world v World champs may be the candidate?

If it is for a season achievements then its hard to top Cam Smith, widely regarded as one of the best three players in the World for a few seasons, he won a couple of things in 2012.

English fans cry out that Australia would not travel for a Test series, true. But Australia have travelled far more to England in recent times than England have played in Oz.
When England do travel to Oz its hard to break even on the series, is that Australia's fault?
Australia still played two games against the current World Champions this year which many choose to ignore.

Its a bit of a Shambles looking through most peoples posts on any number of Forums.
Why was Inglis, Thurston, Gallen, Graham or any Kiwis not on the Shortlist? Many Aussies smiled at the inclusion of Nate Myles.

Sinfield seems a good solid player with a good record at Club level, good luck to him.

I imagine the "Golden Boot" award will have less prestige at least in Australia and NZ going forward with a controversial selection this year.

Edited by AndyCapp, 10 January 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[terrywebbisgod]

Was going to say the same!

Its easy to pick stats that back up your opinion, such as:

Tackles - Sinfield 522, Tomkins 111
Marker Tackles - Sinfield 86, Tomkins 10
Attacking Kicks - Sinfield 123, Tomkins 30

not to mention the things you also asked such as most tries set up by a player (not assists).

For a start they play different positions and have different roles within their teams, you cant really compare like for like. Tomkins will hammer Sinfield in some stats, and it works the other way for other stats. What Sinfield has achieved this year is outstanding, and those that watch Leeds every week can see the influence he has on each and every game.

To say he was only outstanding for the last 4 or 5 games this season just proves you have no clue about how good he actually is, and you didnt see much of Leeds last year!

What are these mysterious stats you speak of that proves Sinfield is worthy of this award, I have seen peoples arguments for it and I am yet to see a reason other than he has contributed alot over the years, deserves it for his loyalty/leadership and because he has 1 or 2 good games at the end of the season, all excuses not worthy of making someone THE BEST FOOTBALLER IN THE WORLD, this is not the who is the best lad award or nicest guy award, Kevin Sinfield is not even in the top 20 players in the world, the people arguing against this decision Poms included have made more valid points actually making logical questions about Kevin Sinfields consistently throughout the season, like Kevin not even making the Super League team of the year, very valid point in my opinion that im yet to receive a counterpoint for, if you want to rephrase the award to the Best and fairest award, for his leadership and contributions to English Rugby league than go right ahead and give it to him, he just isn’t as good of a footballer as the rest of the candidates of this award, simple as that.

[Amber Avenger]

Got the latest RLW last night, and to continue Andy Capp's argument it's very dissapointing to see there are precious few details about the voting process for the award this year. In fact you learn more about how many people voted for Sinfield in the Harry Sunderland trophy in this months mag than you do the Golden Boot.

Of course it's their mag, they can give it to who they like, but considering in the recent past we have had a full breakdown of the international panelists and the which players they awarded marks to, it seems slightly odd that after the most controversial winner in recent times, there is little about who actually voted for Sinfield. Purely from a stats pov it would be good to see if he'd won it by a landslide, the odd vote etc.

[1jordy]

Folks, 1jordy has an opinion and is putting it across well in my opinion. Can we not just agree to,disagree?

FWIW I'm in the Sinfield doesn't deserve it camp but can completely understand people's reasons for supporting his award.

I sometimes think people re deliberately obtuse when discussing things with Aussies because they're Aussies.

Thankyou, very nice of you.

[clement]

What are these mysterious stats you speak of that proves Sinfield is worthy of this award, I have seen peoples arguments for it and I am yet to see a reason other than he has contributed alot over the years, deserves it for his loyalty/leadership and because he has 1 or 2 good games at the end of the season, all excuses not worthy of making someone THE BEST FOOTBALLER IN THE WORLD, this is not the who is the best lad award or nicest guy award, Kevin Sinfield is not even in the top 20 players in the world, the people arguing against this decision Poms included have made more valid points actually making logical questions about Kevin Sinfields consistently throughout the season, like Kevin not even making the Super League team of the year, very valid point in my opinion that im yet to receive a counterpoint for, if you want to rephrase the award to the Best and fairest award, for his leadership and contributions to English Rugby league than go right ahead and give it to him, he just isn’t as good of a footballer as the rest of the candidates of this award, simple as that.

I wouldnt put him in the top 50 in the world.

[southstand loiner]

I wouldnt put him in the top 50 in the world.

good job you didnt get a vote then

each to there own and in a team game i dont really see the award of much value if im been honest as its always going to be a player at a top club that wins it even thought a better player may play at a lower club but does not have team mates around him who give him a chance to show off his skills

having said that of course as a leeds supporter i regard sir kev as the best player in the world in terms of been able to bring world class preformances out of his team mates and his own skills are without doubt top class . lets not dwell on just attack which some folk do but on all round playing ablity and vision

[southstand loiner]

Thankyou, very nice of you.

nice one kid for sticking with it

dont suppose you have any more dubious facts do you

[terrywebbisgod]

I wouldnt put him in the top 50 in the world.

[AndyCapp]

good job you didnt get a vote then

each to there own and in a team game i dont really see the award of much value if im been honest as its always going to be a player at a top club that wins it even thought a better player may play at a lower club but does not have team mates around him who give him a chance to show off his skills

having said that of course as a leeds supporter i regard sir kev as the best player in the world in terms of been able to bring world class preformances out of his team mates and his own skills are without doubt top class . lets not dwell on just attack which some folk do but on all round playing ablity and vision

Thurston won last year and the NQ Cowboys came 7th in the NRL and were knocked out in the first round of the finals big time by Manly.

[AndyCapp]

Where would you rate him?

One poll in Australia was this and that did not include some great players in the English Super League.

BigPond Sport's Top 50 players in the NRL
50. (previously 44) Nathan Merritt – Rabbitohs winger
49. (38) Kurt Gidley – Knights halfback
48. (35) Shaun Johnson – Warriors and New Zealand halfback
47. (New entry) Ben Matulino – Warriors and New Zealand prop
46. (32) Nathan Hindmarsh – Retiring Eels second-rower
45. (34) Anthony Watmough – Sea Eagles, NSW and Australia second-rower
44. (40) Akuila Uate – Knights, NSW and Australia winger
43. (New entry) Michael Ennis – Bulldogs hooker
42. (49) Gareth Widdop – Storm and England five-eighth
41. (43) Ben Hannant – Broncos and Queensland prop
Your club's 2012 season review
40. (27) Kieran Foran – Sea Eagles and New Zealand five-eighth
39. (21) Luke Lewis – Departing Panthers captain and NSW and Australia forward
38. (33) Corey Parker – Tireless, goal-kicking Broncos and Queensland lock
37. (New entry) Sam Kasiano – Ball-playing Bulldogs big man and the Dally M Prop of the Year
36. (30) Dave Taylor – Towering and talented Rabbitohs, Queensland and Australia second-rower
35. (29) Greg Bird – Titans and NSW back-rower seemingly built for Origin football
34. (39) Brent Tate – Super-consistent Cowboys and Queensland centre/winger
33. (New entry) Aidan Tolman – Bulldogs prop who led the NRL in hit-ups in 2012
32. (New entry) Josh Reynolds – Arguably the most improved player in the NRL, and the Bulldogs' key playmaker this season
31. (New entry) Aaron Woods – A standout for the Wests Tigers and surely a future NSW Origin front-rower
The latest NRL player moves and rumours
30. (New entry) Ryan Hoffman – Returned from the UK this year and instantly resumed his status as one of Melbourne's best
29. (17) Sam Thaiday – Replaced Darren Lockyer as Broncos captain and continued to be a leader of the pack for Queensland and Australia
28. (16) Jarryd Hayne – Still a weapon on the wing for NSW, but couldn't help the Eels avoid the wooden spoon
27. (50) Adam Reynolds – The NRL Rookie of the Year has a lock on the Rabbitohs halfback spot for years to come
26. (New entry) Josh Dugan – Played a big role in Canberra's late-season winning run, at fullback and five-eighth
25. (22) Tony Williams – The Manly and NSW back-rower is inconsistent but unstoppable on his day
24. (37) Feleti Mateo – One of the game's best ball-playing big men, Mateo led the league for offloads at the Warriors
23. ( Todd Carney – One of the signings of the season, but a mediocre Origin series and a quiet end to the year for the Sharks sees Carney slide down our list
22. (14) Justin Hodges – A quality performer for Broncos, Queensland and Australia when fit... but the next injury always seems to be just around the corner
21. (45) Nate Myles – The State of Origin man of the series for Queensland and a tireless worker in the Titans pack
More NRL opinion and analysis in The Lowdown
20. (36) Brett Morris – The Dragons flyer was a standout in both attack and defence and earned a welcome Origin call-up alongside brother Josh
19. (10) Glenn Stewart – A class act in the back row for Manly, NSW and Australia
18. (20) Brett Stewart – The NSW fullback can't stop scoring tries for the Sea Eagles
17. (31) Josh Morris – Has stepped up a level since the arrival of Des Hasler, with the defensive game to defuse Greg Inglis at Origin level and the running game to notch 17 tries for the Bulldogs
16. (28) Sam Burgess – The super-talented England forward played a big role in the Rabbitohs' top-four finish
15. (12) Daly Cherry-Evans – No second-year syndrome for Manly's 2011 Rookie of the Year
14. (13) James Tamou – Proved why Australia and New Zealand were fighting over his services with a string of dominant performances up front for the Cowboys
13. (7) Benji Marshall – Not a great year for the Wests Tigers and New Zealand playmaker, but still one of rugby league's great talents
12. (23) Matt Scott – We rate the Cowboys, Queensland and Australia stalwart as the second-best prop in the business, just behind...
11. (19) James Graham – A sensational buy for the Bulldogs and comfortably the best bench player in the NRL
All the confirmed 2013 NRL player moves
10. (9) Robbie Farah – In what was a rough year off the field, Farah cemented his place as NSW hooker and the Wests Tigers' most important player
9. (11) Jamie Lyon – Simply a class act in the centres for the Sea Eagles
8. (15) Matt Bowen – Electrifying with the ball in hand and a terrific playmaker to boot, producing more try assists in 2012 than Johnathan Thurston
7. (18) Ben Barba – He was a huge talent in 2011 but this year became the complete package, producing try-saving tackles, laying on 23 try assists and leading the NRL try-scorers list with 22 four-pointers on the way to the Dally M medal
6. (6) Cooper Cronk – The Storm, Queensland and Australia halfback is as consistent as they come
5. (5) Johnathan Thurston – The Cowboys and Queensland star still gets our nod as rugby league's best playmaker, but only just
4. (3) Paul Gallen – The hardest-working player in the game and an inspiration for the Sharks, NSW and Australia
3. (4) Greg Inglis – Already the game's best centre, Inglis's switch to fullback made the Rabbitohs one of the most scintillating attacking teams in the NRL
2. (1) Billy Slater – In an era of great fullbacks, Slater remains the first-choice No.1 for Queensland and Australia for a reason. Brilliant in all facets of the game
1. (2) Cameron Smith – Exceptional in defence, controls the game in attack, a winning captain for club, state and country, probably the best No.9 of all time, and he kicks goals too for good measure.


Not sure why Nate Myles was a nominee for the Golden Boot, no other Aussies had him up there.

Edited by AndyCapp, 10 January 2013 - 10:56 AM.

[terrywebbisgod]

Where would you rate him?

Like you need to ask.

[AndyCapp]

Like you need to ask.

[Martyn Sadler]

I would still like to know who the Judges are? is there a reason why they cannot be named?
If an award is to be prestigious across the Rugby League Code World Wide, then surely knowing the Criteria for winning and who the Judges are defines the status of the Award.

I was always under the impression it was awarded to the best player from a Test series, that criteria is not as easy as it was two decades ago as the game has died to some extent at Test level.

If that is the criteria then surely the best man from number one in the world v World champs may be the candidate?

If it is for a season achievements then its hard to top Cam Smith, widely regarded as one of the best three players in the World for a few seasons, he won a couple of things in 2012.

English fans cry out that Australia would not travel for a Test series, true. But Australia have travelled far more to England in recent times than England have played in Oz.
When England do travel to Oz its hard to break even on the series, is that Australia's fault?
Australia still played two games against the current World Champions this year which many choose to ignore.

Its a bit of a Shambles looking through most peoples posts on any number of Forums.
Why was Inglis, Thurston, Gallen, Graham or any Kiwis not on the Shortlist? Many Aussies smiled at the inclusion of Nate Myles.

Sinfield seems a good solid player with a good record at Club level, good luck to him.

I imagine the "Golden Boot" award will have less prestige at least in Australia and NZ going forward with a controversial selection this year.

For this year's Golden Boot award we decided to follow the practice elsewhere and not publish the details of the vote, even though we have done it before.

There are several reasons for this.

In the recent past some members of the panel who have cast votes have been subject to vitriolic criticism through social media for the way they voted. With the growth of Twitter and other media I can only imagine that the trend would continue.

The vast majority of other similar polls don't release the details of who voted for whom, as in the RLIF award to Cameron Smith this year, for example, or the Man of Steel award to Sam Tomkins, or any of the other awards associated with the Man of Steel awards night. Historically the Golden Boot voting figures were not released. The IRB award to Dan Carter this year was similarly not accompanied by voting figures.

On the subject of Nate Myles, your condescending comments are quite surprising. Myles won the Wally Lewis Medal as the Player of probably the most competitive State of Origin series yet contested. He was supported very strongly by Mal Meninga in that regard. So if "many Aussies smiled at the inclusion of Nate Myles" I can only imagine that they did so particularly in Queensland.

As for the prestige of the Golden Boot, after all the publicity following the award to Kevin Sinfield it strikes me that it has more prestige than ever before. Just ask virtually any leading player!

[Dave T]

Folks, 1jordy has an opinion and is putting it across well in my opinion. Can we not just agree to,disagree?

FWIW I'm in the Sinfield doesn't deserve it camp but can completely understand people's reasons for supporting his award.

I sometimes think people re deliberately obtuse when discussing things with Aussies because they're Aussies.

Yeah - I'd agree with you. TBF to 1jordy he is actually putting the point across that Tomkins was a better bet (a view that I agree with!).

[Amber Avenger]

For this year's Golden Boot award we decided to follow the practice elsewhere and not publish the details of the vote, even though we have done it before.

There are several reasons for this.

In the recent past some members of the panel who have cast votes have been subject to vitriolic criticism through social media for the way they voted. With the growth of Twitter and other media I can only imagine that the trend would continue.

The vast majority of other similar polls don't release the details of who voted for whom, as in the RLIF award to Cameron Smith this year, for example, or the Man of Steel award to Sam Tomkins, or any of the other awards associated with the Man of Steel awards night. Historically the Golden Boot voting figures were not released. The IRB award to Dan Carter this year was similarly not accompanied by voting figures.

Fair enough and thank you for coming out and explaining - it's still hugely dissapointing of course, but I can see the logic from that POV.

What chance, though, of revealing the panel? Many major awards at least reveal who had the honor of making the decision.

[AndyCapp]

For this year's Golden Boot award we decided to follow the practice elsewhere and not publish the details of the vote, even though we have done it before.

There are several reasons for this.

In the recent past some members of the panel who have cast votes have been subject to vitriolic criticism through social media for the way they voted. With the growth of Twitter and other media I can only imagine that the trend would continue.

The vast majority of other similar polls don't release the details of who voted for whom, as in the RLIF award to Cameron Smith this year, for example, or the Man of Steel award to Sam Tomkins, or any of the other awards associated with the Man of Steel awards night. Historically the Golden Boot voting figures were not released. The IRB award to Dan Carter this year was similarly not accompanied by voting figures.

On the subject of Nate Myles, your condescending comments are quite surprising. Myles won the Wally Lewis Medal as the Player of probably the most competitive State of Origin series yet contested. He was supported very strongly by Mal Meninga in that regard. So if "many Aussies smiled at the inclusion of Nate Myles" I can only imagine that they did so particularly in Queensland.

As for the prestige of the Golden Boot, after all the publicity following the award to Kevin Sinfield it strikes me that it has more prestige than ever before. Just ask virtually any leading player!

Thank you for the reply Martyn.
With regards to Nate Myles I am not being condescending just stating plenty could not see Myles as a better player than Thurston or many others that have proven themselves at both SOO and Test level this year and I was pointing out that Aussies are not just pushing their own players.
Myles is not a player that is guaranteed a Test spot, he needs to prove himself each year, Golden Boot? rather have Kevin than Nate, that sums it up really.

At the end of the day they are your Magazines awards to be given to who you wish by your Staff.


Cheers.

Edited by AndyCapp, 10 January 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[barrowraiderskid]

IMO 1jordys analysis on Sinfield was right. The stats you brought up for Sinfield were obviously going to benefit in his favour. For example its going to be obvious that a full back has less tackles. Also the stats brought up for Tomkins he was the highest for tackle busts and clean breaks, second on try assists, second on tries and top on try assists and tries combined by a long distance. A half back should be good in those areas. There isn't any stats which prove Sinfield was dominant in every game throughout the season I'm afraid. Disagree with his opinions on the WCC though.

[AndyCapp]

IMO 1jordys analysis on Sinfield was right. The stats you brought up for Sinfield were obviously going to benefit in his favour. For example its going to be obvious that a full back has less tackles. Also the stats brought up for Tomkins he was the highest for tackle busts and clean breaks, second on try assists, second on tries and top on try assists and tries combined by a long distance. A half back should be good in those areas. There isn't any stats which prove Sinfield was dominant in every game throughout the season I'm afraid. Disagree with his opinions on the WCC though.

The thing is Barrow.
The WCC gets little or no coverage in Oz (its not because of Wigan 1995) its just not seen as a real game pre season.
Aussie clubs have said the right things and banged the drum because they have been told to its a contractual arrangement that they have to play..
Australian Clubs would obviously rather win than lose in the WCC but it rates hardly a blip on their Radar in comparison to the NRL Season.
If any NRL Club was asked could they skip the WCC I suspect that 100% of them would.
They may not say that in the media, but that is what they would think.
For most NRL clubs the "Scalp" of Wigan or Leeds would mean little in what their focus is for the season.
English Rugby League is barely known in Australia by most fans.

Channel Nine the current League rights holders showed the WCC on Tuesday night at 1am last year 2 days after the event, they think the game is held in that high regard.
If the Rugby League media in a League mad Country can not show it within 48 hours or put it on when more than 12 people are awake what does it say about their survey of a potential audience?

Edited by AndyCapp, 10 January 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[JohnM]

Which if true is a shame, as so many of your players do seem to find our game worth bothering about. Again, if your view is correct, this insularity, isolationism and parochialism that does no one any justice


Of course, I realise there is some gamesmanship in your response, but THIS is just going too far!!

Edited by JohnM, 10 January 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[AndyCapp]

Which if true is a shame, as so many of your players do seem to find our game worth bothering about. Again, if your view is correct, this insularity, isolationism and parochialism that does no one any justice


Of course, I realise there is some gamesmanship in your response, but THIS is just going too far!!

Is that in response to my post?