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#1 Blind side johnny

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

http://www.yorkshire...lines-1-5271297

I note that Championship clubs will already have this in place for 2013.

It's worth reading the part about non-executive directors - how many CC clubs have them I wonder?
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#2 grumpyoldram

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

http://www.yorkshire...lines-1-5271297

I note that Championship clubs will already have this in place for 2013.

It's worth reading the part about non-executive directors - how many CC clubs have them I wonder?


I seem to recall MS stating in the past that he would love somebody to share the burden with, but that getting a suitable individual on board was a problem he hadn't been able to resolve. Maybe the RFL can help clubs in our position to get the help they (the RFL) seem to demand of us. It will be interesting to see how clubs who rely almost exclusively on one individual, get round the problem.

#3 Blind side johnny

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:58 PM

I seem to recall MS stating in the past that he would love somebody to share the burden with, but that getting a suitable individual on board was a problem he hadn't been able to resolve. Maybe the RFL can help clubs in our position to get the help they (the RFL) seem to demand of us. It will be interesting to see how clubs who rely almost exclusively on one individual, get round the problem.


I think MS was looking for other investors, naturally. The role of a non-executive director would implicitly be quite different, having no personal stake in the business. In the past MS has been very complimentary about the assistance that the club has received from the RFL, notwithstanding some supporters' uninformed criticisms.

It is a very difficult situation: most "private" companies (which is what the majority of CC clubs are) are generally quite reluctant to bring in a non-executive, regarding it as simply unwanted interference. In reality they can bring a helpful, alternative view and, in RL terms, are perceived as a component of good governance. I am just guessing that the number of CC clubs with non-executives on board is approximately zero.

Edited by Blind side johnny, 04 January 2013 - 02:00 PM.

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#4 grumpyoldram

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:44 PM

I think MS was looking for other investors, naturally. The role of a non-executive director would implicitly be quite different, having no personal stake in the business. In the past MS has been very complimentary about the assistance that the club has received from the RFL, notwithstanding some supporters' uninformed criticisms.

It is a very difficult situation: most "private" companies (which is what the majority of CC clubs are) are generally quite reluctant to bring in a non-executive, regarding it as simply unwanted interference. In reality they can bring a helpful, alternative view and, in RL terms, are perceived as a component of good governance. I am just guessing that the number of CC clubs with non-executives on board is approximately zero.


You will have to forgive me BSJ, but I'm not from a business background. I understand the wikipedia definition of a non executive director, but it doesn't state whether such positions are usually paid or voluntary. If it is the former. then surely it is just one more financial burden on the club, and if it is the latter, how can you persuade someone of with the required experience and business acumen to perform what will essentially be a thankless job. It sounds a good idea on paper, and maybe should be encouraged, but if it is enforced by the RFL, how many essentially altruistic chairmen will be tempted to call it a day rather than have the hassle.

#5 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:48 PM

In most private companies, non-execs are a paid role albeit part-time. Think they could help but in the end if you have no financial stake they can only offer advice. I doubt unpaid advisors to the board, rather than non-execs are what CC clubs would end up with., really would make a substantial difference.

It is alright quoting Wakefield but the simple fact is Andrew Glover has paid a lot of money into the club, if he stopped paying in nothing really changes much. It is down to financial mismanagement, not lack of governance. Lack of governance does not prevent financial mismanagement. RBS was a FTSE 100 company and had paid non-execs directors with a lot of business experience, yet it was still mismanaged.

Ironic that an ex-FA employee is leading this, a lot of Premiership clubs are losing money hand over fist and the director of licensing is quoted. Given what has happened at Wakefield, Bradford and Crusaders you could ask what he really knows about this. And the RFL quote three of the wealthiest clubs as adopting this, easy to have this sort of governance when you are not under financial pressure.

Most C clubs are effectively small businesses by turnover, most small businesses cannot afford non-execs.

Edited by Wakefield Ram, 04 January 2013 - 05:58 PM.


#6 Blind side johnny

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:20 PM

In most private companies, non-execs are a paid role albeit part-time. Think they could help but in the end if you have no financial stake they can only offer advice. I doubt unpaid advisors to the board, rather than non-execs are what CC clubs would end up with., really would make a substantial difference.

It is alright quoting Wakefield but the simple fact is Andrew Glover has paid a lot of money into the club, if he stopped paying in nothing really changes much. It is down to financial mismanagement, not lack of governance. Lack of governance does not prevent financial mismanagement. RBS was a FTSE 100 company and had paid non-execs directors with a lot of business experience, yet it was still mismanaged.

Ironic that an ex-FA employee is leading this, a lot of Premiership clubs are losing money hand over fist and the director of licensing is quoted. Given what has happened at Wakefield, Bradford and Crusaders you could ask what he really knows about this. And the RFL quote three of the wealthiest clubs as adopting this, easy to have this sort of governance when you are not under financial pressure.

Most C clubs are effectively small businesses by turnover, most small businesses cannot afford non-execs.



So are you saying that CC clubs should ignore this advice/guidance?
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#7 grumpyoldram

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

So are you saying that CC clubs should ignore this advice/guidance?

Do they have a choice?

#8 Ackroman

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:38 PM

I agree with WR's assessment of the impact of non exec's. No number of them can stop clubowners using HMRC liabilities to pay the bills.

#9 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:22 AM

BSJ - the idea that having non-exec directors will by default stop clubs having financial problems is not backed by evidence or even common sense. Premiership football clubs have non-execs and most are losing money despite huge turnover. RBS had a board packed full of non-execs yet went horribly wrong.

If Barrow had non-execs, do you think Des Johnson would have listened? Non-execs offer advice, it is still up to CEOs /owners to act on or ignore the advice.

#10 Blind side johnny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:38 AM

BSJ - the idea that having non-exec directors will by default stop clubs having financial problems is not backed by evidence or even common sense. Premiership football clubs have non-execs and most are losing money despite huge turnover. RBS had a board packed full of non-execs yet went horribly wrong.

If Barrow had non-execs, do you think Des Johnson would have listened? Non-execs offer advice, it is still up to CEOs /owners to act on or ignore the advice.


So do you think CC clubs should ignore this RFL advice/guidance? You appear to have avoided the question.
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#11 Griff

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

You will have to forgive me BSJ, but I'm not from a business background. I understand the wikipedia definition of a non executive director, but it doesn't state whether such positions are usually paid or voluntary.


In the real world, they get paid. "Non executive" refers to them not doing any work in the day-to-day sense, rather than them not getting paid. Their task is usually overseeing and advising on projects or just the structure of the club generally.

In the sporting world, you might well get somebody to do it for a couple of season tickets and a pot of tea in the board room or summat.
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#12 Griff

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:36 AM

No number of them can stop clubowners using HMRC liabilities to pay the bills.


From some point, as yet to be announced, between April and October, employers will be telling HMRC every pay day just how much tax and NI they owe. Cue much more regular visits from HMRC ......... :unsure:
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#13 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:08 PM

BSJ - what the club do is up to them, it can't hurt, but I don't believe personally that filling in an online form will make any significant difference to how the finances of individual CC clubs are run.




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