163 replies to this topic

[southstand loiner]

Well OK - we obviously define the phrase "for their own amusement" in different ways. I dunno - if I wanted to get fit, I'm not sure I'd choose amateur Rugby League. Could have quite the opposite effect.

Nevertheless - I take your point.

not a prob you have certainly come up with some good points

[southstand loiner]

Add james donaldson, gary broadbent, rob purdham, anthony blackwood

uncle tom cobbley and all .

theres been plenty of cumbrians over the years do we need a counting game over it .

[shun]

uncle tom cobbley and all .

theres been plenty of cumbrians over the years do we need a counting game over it .

im just trying to prove a point, can you suggest any other way i do it?

[southstand loiner]

im just trying to prove a point, can you suggest any other way i do it?

the point is proved .
there have been many cumbrians in the league what does it matter what the percentage is but if you want to get into populations of areas and adjust that to numbers of players then feel free but you are getting drawn a never ending spat i fear .

should i point out that if you keep on trying to prove your point then at some stage sombody will ask you to define cumbrian and then point out barrow as not been true cumbrian and that will start another long list of players

[The Parksider]

I'm just trying to prove a point, can you suggest any other way i do it?

And I'm grateful for you doing this, and there is no question of a spat.

Again I'm talking about regular first team SL players so such as Brad Singleton doesn't apply. One game I understand? I'm not interested in arguing about how players qualify as such though the general number gives an idea of how productive Cumbria is for Super league.

Yes Griff there's about six Cumbrians in SL first XV11's now and Shun's given us a few blasts from the past. Chambers, Dowes, Broadbent, Lupton, so we may conclude Cumbria/Barrow produces a quality SL regular player at a rate of something approaching one a year but not quite that.

It's good to have facts.

It gives us a fair measure

[The Parksider]

There have been many cumbrians in the league what does it matter what the percentage is......

I think it matters to look at how Superleague get's it's players. Professional Players, Paying fans and Directors/Sponsors with money are important assets to the game.

It's always important to look at how any business aquires it's assets and at what cost/benefit.

[Keith T]

Does SL get kids to full time first team pro's from Cumbria? Go on then how many have made it and are playing today from a whole county with 100 years of history of the game being a major sport there??

Start putting some facts together to back your argument

Does giving false information add any strength to your argument?

Workington formed in 1945 (67 years ago) and Whitehaven formed in 1948 (64 years ago) does not in any way become 100 years of being the major sport here. If by some chance you have included Barrow (formed in 1901) then you should have noted that Barrow and the Furness area did not become part of Cumbria until 1974.

London in its many guises has been going for 32 years (Fulham formed in 1980) and how many players have they brought through to SL full-time first team players? Perhaps a better means of looking at the talent in west Cumbria is to see that last season Workington had 25 Cumbrian born players and Whitehaven had 16 Cumbrian born players in their squads at semi-professional level.

You also need to add in to the equation that if a young lad has a good job in west Cumbria and plays semi-pro then he would need a very good offer from a SL club to give up a steady income for a move away from the area to a SL club.

[southstand loiner]

I think it matters to look at how Superleague get's it's players. Professional Players, Paying fans and Directors/Sponsors with money are important assets to the game.

It's always important to look at how any business aquires it's assets and at what cost/benefit.

so can we have a breakdown of how many players have come from bradford or hull as neither aeem to have produced as many as would be expected for areas with super league teams and thus more investment

[Griff]

Workington formed in 1945 (67 years ago) and Whitehaven formed in 1948 (64 years ago) does not in any way become 100 years of being the major sport here.

And no players ever came from Cumberland before 1945 ? I find that difficult to believe ........

[keighley]

And no players ever came from Cumberland before 1945 ? I find that difficult to believe ........

Many, many did and James <Lomas, one of the all time greats was one of them. I believe Cumberland as was, with no professional club in the county prior to 1945 used to win as a county against Yorkshire and Lancashire fairly often in the county championship which was considered a big competition back then.

[Keith T]

And no players ever came from Cumberland before 1945 ? I find that difficult to believe ........

That was not the point that was being made. The point is that it was not a major sport here for 100 years. Prior to Workington's entry into the professional game it was "amateur" RL here.

[Griff]

That was not the point that was being made. The point is that it was not a major sport here for 100 years. Prior to Workington's entry into the professional game it was "amateur" RL here.

"Amateur" does not mean it was not "major".

Rugby Union was "amateur" (well, Dudley Wood said it was) for many years. You'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't "major".

[Griff]

Many, many did and James Lomas, one of the all time greats was one of them. I believe Cumberland as was, with no professional club in the county prior to 1945 used to win as a county against Yorkshire and Lancashire fairly often in the county championship which was considered a big competition back then.

Exactly.

[keighley]

"Amateur" does not mean it was not "major".

Rugby Union was "amateur" (well, Dudley Wood said it was) for many years. You'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't "major".

Rugby Union was not major until recently. After the great split there numbers were decimated and they never recovered until after the 1920s. The club game was very minor with the famous one man and his dog attendances and such as Saracens playing on open fields.

The international game was decent but they only had the five nations and an occasional touring team from NZ or SA. The Australians were very very weak. Even then in the 1930 s they expelled France for, wait for it, professionalism, which enabled French RL to take off to the point where it was the major Rugby code in the country at the outbreak of WW11 leading to the infamous and treasonable dance with the devil of the Vichy annexation just to save RUs neck.

Post war the boom in RL attendances eclipsed RUs club game to some tune.

It was the 1995 move to professionalism and the injection of major capital from well heeled entrepeneurs which finally propelled RU to major status. So RU has been major for less than 20 years. Even now it only encompasses half the country.

[Keith T]

"Amateur" does not mean it was not "major".

Rugby Union was "amateur" (well, Dudley Wood said it was) for many years. You'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't "major".

Take away Workington and Whitehaven and the game here in Cumbria was played amongst the villages. Now no-one with any common sense could possibly call that "major". I don't think many matches from those days got reported in the national press!!!!!!

[Griff]

Rugby Union was not major until recently. After the great split there numbers were decimated and they never recovered until after the 1920s. The club game was very minor with the famous one man and his dog attendances and such as Saracens playing on open fields.

The international game was decent but they only had the five nations and an occasional touring team from NZ or SA. The Australians were very very weak. Even then in the 1930 s they expelled France for, wait for it, professionalism, which enabled French RL to take off to the point where it was the major Rugby code in the country at the outbreak of WW11 leading to the infamous and treasonable dance with the devil of the Vichy annexation just to save RUs neck.

Post war the boom in RL attendances eclipsed RUs club game to some tune.

It was the 1995 move to professionalism and the injection of major capital from well heeled entrepeneurs which finally propelled RU to major status. So RU has been major for less than 20 years. Even now it only encompasses half the country.

I think you're dreaming there, pal.

If I'd have asked someone 40 or 50 years ago to name five sports, I'd have been surprised if Rugby Union had been named as late as fifth.

Club's attendances ? Sure they were poor but that's not relevant here. We're talking about playing.

[Griff]

Take away Workington and Whitehaven and the game here in Cumbria was played amongst the villages. Now no-one with any common sense could possibly call that "major". I don't think many matches from those days got reported in the national press!!!!!!

Amazing how all these pre-war Cumbrians got into the game then.

Don't know what the national press reports have to do with it. As I said in the post above, we're talking about playing here.

[Keith T]

Amazing how all these pre-war Cumbrians got into the game then.

Don't know what the national press reports have to do with it. As I said in the post above, we're talking about playing here.

Those that "got in to the game" took the chance and moved away from Cumbria, probably to look for work outside the game. At present those that make it to SL take the chance and move away from Cumbria but in order to do that they probably have to give up a job outside the game and that is a big ask.

The remark about the press was a throw away remark meaning that I don't think the game here was that major that it made the national press and I was also talking about playing the game and trying to give a reason or two why there isn't as many young Cumbrians coming through to SL. They either stay in full-time employment and play semi-pro or amateur in Cumbria rather than take the chance at a SL club and moving home, etc.

[Griff]

Those that "got in to the game" took the chance and moved away from Cumbria, probably to look for work outside the game. At present those that make it to SL take the chance and move away from Cumbria but in order to do that they probably have to give up a job outside the game and that is a big ask.

The remark about the press was a throw away remark meaning that I don't think the game here was that major that it made the national press and I was also talking about playing the game and trying to give a reason or two why there isn't as many young Cumbrians coming through to SL. They either stay in full-time employment and play semi-pro or amateur in Cumbria rather than take the chance at a SL club and moving home, etc.

OK, well we're arguing about semantics here - but the fact remains that Cumberland was producing professional players long before it had professional clubs. Indeed, one of the driving forces behind their formation was the supply of players.

[a.n Other]

Add james donaldson, gary broadbent, rob purdham, anthony blackwood, gary chambers

Anthony Blackwood is from Leigh isn't he?